Dual Processor iMacs?

[MacRumors]

This is the first I've seen of this possibility... According to this EETimes.com article (http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020103S0069):

The company is also expected to offer dual processor versions of the iMac for the first time, though those models might not be unveiled until an event in Tokyo later this year.

Later, they mention that possibly all systems except Laptops would go to dual processors. Personally, I've thought moving all PowerMac's to duals would be a promising way to bump speed with lagging PPC development (mhz wise).... but would iMac customers want this? And would they want to pay the extra $$$ that would be built into the price of dual-processor iMacs?

Also mentioned is the possibility of an even larger Cinema Display:

In addition to the desktops, Apple is expected to roll out a new high-end desktop LCD monitor. The existing 22-inch Apple Cinema Display, which sports a 1,600 x 1,024 resolution, will be superceded by a model with a 2,048 x 1,280 display.

[chibianh]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but i'm a newbie :)wouldn't a dual g3 imac run osx smooth enough to make the people who complain about how slow osx runs on their g3 happy?

[kishba]

i thought it was impossible for dual g3's to work... only g4s or g5s


does that mean new DUAL g4s in an iMac? i think not.

[boredincali]

moving to dual processors would be a step in the right direction to harness the power of OSX, but is this enough to live up to apple's hype.... nope...

[IndyGopher]

It was my understanding that one of the reasons Apple rushed Motorola on the original G4's was because the G3 core didn't support multiple processors in any sort of meaningful way. Granted, it has been a long time since this was all hashed out, but I am pretty certain this is still the case. So, unless these iMacs in questions would be dual G4 iMacs..

[ennerseed]

well if they made it 24 inches the rez would make it high rez like the ibook right??

[kishba]

unless

maybe ibm fixed it in their revision of the chip

[arn]

I think you're right - G3's can't do dual easily...

as for the theoretical question however.... Dual processored (g3's if possible) would make OS X overall smoother/more responsive.

Individual tasks wouldn't necessarily go faster than a single processor machine - for example, window resizing wouldn't likely go any faster... but overall system would work better as OS X distributes processes to both processors very well.

arn
dual 800

[Beej]

Originally posted by chibianh
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but i'm a newbie :)wouldn't a dual g3 imac run osx smooth enough to make the people who complain about how slow osx runs on their g3 happy?

Yes it would. But dual processor macs are not aimed at making the OS run smoothly though, they're aimed much more at graphic and movie applications.


Personally, I think this is VERY unlikely. iMacs are aimed at consumers, PowerMacs are aimed at everything higher. DP iMacs would eat into the PowerMac's market.

The only way I could see this happening is if there was a HUGE jump in the speed of the PowerMacs. Either quad processors (highly unlikely), the announcement of fast G5s (unlikely), or leaps and bounds in the processor speeds of the G4 (possible).

[arn]

Personally, I think going to a full dual-processor PowerMac line would be great.

Could they do this without raising prices significantly? Not sure... PPC's are still more expensive than their AMD counterparts... Not sure how they compare to intel prices...

arn

[chmorley]

Much too tame, given the hype--especially the "Backstage pass to the future" line. While it could be one of the lesser announcements, it just sounds too expensive.

I'm doubtful.

CJM

[QTboy]

In addition to the desktops, Apple is expected to roll out a new high-end desktop LCD monitor. The existing 22-inch Apple Cinema Display, which sports a 1,600 x 1,024 resolution, will be superceded by a model with a 2,048 x 1,280 display.

This one is big, even by our standards.

Do we see a pattern?

[flutedrumr]

that screen resolution would be capable of showing the HDTV standards [largest being 1920x1080]... it'd be nice to be able to watch stuff recorded high-definition in it's native format.

[iapplemac]

You can't do Dual G3's they dont support it. Dual G4's that makes more like it if the G5 isnt ready

[amichalo]

Originally posted by QTboy
In addition to the desktops, Apple is expected to roll out a new high-end desktop LCD monitor. The existing 22-inch Apple Cinema Display, which sports a 1,600 x 1,024 resolution, will be superceded by a model with a 2,048 x 1,280 display.

This one is big, even by our standards.

Do we see a pattern?

I think you win the award for figuring out that riddle. Now havge a go at the other ones!

[thinmann]

ok i know this is off subject, but what if apple did buy avid and they big thing is an apple workstation?

it would be the ultimate machine for digital video..
fits right in to the digital lifestyle.

[mitcho]

If they can make a dual processor at a good price point, it *would* go a good way towards the hype. I think with IBM's new revision of the G3, DP might be possible... but I haven't read enough on them yet.

Personally, I think DP iMacs would be a bad idea. As was mentioned earlier, this would cut away from the PowerMac's market, except for the fact that these DP iMacs wouldn't have AltiVec. That AltiVec (Velocity Engine) has some great advantages for some scientific and graphic users... even more of an advantage than DP, some times.

I also think a full DP/MP PowerMac line would not be a good thing, at least until we see iMac G4s. The thing that distinguishes the line the most besides demographic is G3 vs. G4. If SP vs. DP/MP also becomes a standard differentiation between the two lines, the performance gap between the top shelf iMac and the slowest PowerMac would be too much--not a slick move.

In considering the above, I conclude that, if possible pricewise, it would be a good idea to take this opportunity for Apple to move at least some iMacs to the G4. The transition needs to happen sometime, and then they could have more PowerMacs have standard DP.

mitcho@mitcho.com

[treknerd]

It is unlikly that Apple will release duel processor iMacs for two reasons.

1) To the best of my knowledge, the g3 is still not multiprocessor capable.

2) If duel G4's were used instead, Apple would have to greatly improve the PowerMacs (i.e. with a G5, but it is very unlikely that they will be released at MWSF).

Also, the price of having duel processors would shoot up the iMacs beyond their low prices, giving Apple nothing to compete against in the "Cheap Desktop PC" area.

[TylerL]

I remember reading somewhere that the current resolution of the Cinema Display is already pushing the limits of the ADC(/DVI) connection.
...any insight into this?

[markseaton]

I predicted a few days back at day 7 what apple had up its sleave and so far i have been almost dead on. I thought that apple would produce the LCD iMac in dualy's, and apple had plans for a PDA "but that video almost made me cry with joy" and a 1ghz G4 with udgrades to the motherbord like DDR, 266bus, AGP Pro.. i think apple will still suprise us all in 4 days i can't wait

oh and as to a G3 not being able to support dual cpu that could be wrong, the G4 is only a revised G3 with the altec engine added and in the new rev they just added more, 3 altec engines but i was under the inpresion that the core are the same in both the G3 and G4 so it sould support dual configs

[markseaton]

Apple's ADC conector can support anything that the video card can dish out, as it is the resolution 2024x1900 or whatever.. is much lower then curent hi rez computer displays HDTV is not nearly as HI REZ as what a computer can display.

[Beej]

I think we want dual G4s... duel G4s would fight each other ;)

[eroscott]

Think Different. Think Simple.


Steve, I Know What It Would "BE" If It Were Up To Me.

If it were up to me in 3 days I'd be announcing... a new vision... integrated "apple" products that hang from an invisible "tree" (airport)...

An extra large Cinema Display that I can sit in my living room and use as a TV that I can control with my iBook, with a TiVO-like recorder on my airport network, connect my iBook and iPod to play iMovies and iTunes (with AWESOME VISUALS... HOT) and an internet surfing station that I can control thru airport and my iBook, iMac, iPod?

I want to live in an "Orchard," Scott

Think Big. Delicious.

[macboy]

No Dual G3 for the iMac.

If apple does a complete redesign of the iMac then it will have a G4 chip meaning that the G5 PowerMacs will be launched because the G4 iMac would take too much business away from teh G4 PowerMacs.

Why waster the time and money to redesign the iMac and not give it a new processor.

Just Think! Like apple says... Think Different.

When Apple launched to old color iMacs again, everyone was unhappy. They went back because people complained about the Blue Dal and the Flower Power. They can't afford to have more unhappy mac users if they launch the same style iMac in Snow, Indigo and Graphite. Yes I like these colors but they have been used too many times. Apple needs something new for their iMacs. Don't get me wrong.. I love the shape of the iMac but I think it is time for Apple to re-invent the iMac.

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Originally posted by markseaton
oh and as to a G3 not being able to support dual cpu that could be wrong, the G4 is only a revised G3 with the altec engine added and in the new rev they just added more, 3 altec engines but i was under the inpresion that the core are the same in both the G3 and G4 so it sould support dual configs

Revised G3? That's a laugh. You must realize that making a CPU, designed and producing rather, is not some simple task like building a Web Page w/iTools.
Motorola may lag WAY too much, but the G4 was COMPLETELY rebuilt for two things: Performance and well performance, but in MP configs.
[The G3 was built in a Quad-200Mhz config it retailed for $10,000 and ran at 375Mhz Effective. Each G3 did 1/2 the one before it.]
G3s can't MP, MERCI and MERC are needed and only the G4 has them. The technologies like sharing ram and data-loads are important, and working in harmony on a single Daughtercard requires fine-tuning.

In conclusion the G4 in a DP config makes too much heat to work in a fanless iMac. Especially with it's supposedly smaller design. PS I think "Big" refers to the expo, not a new ADC. Although if each day was a hint to something they make how cool would that be? I'm so tired right now....

[QTboy]

Originally posted by amichalo

I think you win the award for figuring out that riddle. Now havge a go at the other ones!

OK, here's the deal. Listen closely, it's pretty loud here lately. We can start with the most recent one.

No PC has ever been able to reach into all kind of aspects of our daily life. Apple will be changing their structure (somewhat) to focus more on new ideas that will be more like commodity products.

For example, the insanely large Cinema Display is perfect for ... replacing a TV. The fact that Macintosh will be providing all the electronic "services" that you use in your life is inevitable and will be a reality sooner than most people think.

Keep watching, it's going to be amazing!

[Pentium Killer]

This is getting more and more ridiculous.Guys,they are making fun of us,they are only refering to the Expo,which is a Mac Expo,where no PC has been before.Have you seen a PC on a Macworld Expo?Stop speculating like idiots!!

[SpeedRacer]

As i've said elsewhere, this is the stupidest rumor yet. The g3 processor is not multiprocessor aware, meaning the new iMacs would *have* to be g4-based and yet Moto can hardly keep pace with demand for *single* processor g4 towers, what makes anyone in his/her right mind think that Apple would standardize on dual-CPU g4-based iMacs after their utter failure at standardizing on dual CPU towers a year ago? And what about heat in a fanless iMac? I believe the Cube showed us what happens when you try to cram a g4 processor in a fanless case - capped CPU speeds b/c of the need to keep CPU temps down. Heck, even the Ti's have fans!

And HDTV-based Apple displays? Apple doesn't even sell a Mac with TV-in/out capabilities yet and has made it clear they abandoned the computer as TV concept years ago. Why release a display for a product you do not have (or plan to have in the future?).

And who the *&^$ is eeTimes anyway?!

Bunk. All bunk.

Speed

[kimble]

Don't count out the possibility that what they mean by "dual processor" is a CPU with dual cores. I.e. One chip with two CPU's on it. This could be done very easily with existing designs...

[Falleron]

I thought that the G3 could be used as a dual processor, BUT the problem is that the 2 processors would not work efficiently together. How about a 1Ghz Sahara as the primary and a 500Mhz as the secondary? Dont know if u can mix different speeds though?

I think that a dual processor for the imac is a bad idea (Unless they badge this example as 1.5Ghz).

[kaneda]

I don't think Apple will release a DP imac in Tokyo. They probably release it in NY. I think it is too early for them to upgrade DP imac in Tokyo. Usually take 6 months. But I think they will release a faster tower in Tokyo. Hopefully!

[Falleron]

Apple will not release a DP imac! If the powermacs use the G5 then apple has plenty of room for expansion using the apollo chips.:o

[mischief]

As of Jan 7th iMacs are G4's. They DO have a fan. The case is too small to fit an adequate heat sinc in to keep u with 2 processors. Perhaps if iMac was to get Apollo G4's.

A Cinema display significantly larger than the existing would be exponentially more expensive to produce as LCD tech gets to be a VERY wasteful process in the larger sizes. The larger a sheet of LCD, the more likeley there will be more than an acceptable number of "dead" pixels. Higher res is quite likeley, Apple has been steadily increasing the Resolution of it's laptop LCD's.

[spikey]

If the apollos are being made with SOI technology ( are they?), then maybe they would produce less heat, hence making it possible.

This is a very vague thing to say.

[tw9876z]

i doubt it, the low end new imac is coming out the same time as teh tokyo expo, so no, the top model migh be updated but i would not hold my breath. As for g5, thats is almost require to be at the next expo

[samy85114]

Sure it is, Apple don't have any choice. They have to release it as soon as possible in order to increase the difference of power between the consumer model "IMac" and the "pro" known as tower... Right now we can get an iMac with almost the same processor for about $1100 less... so I think something there'S missing, and i guess Apple already knows it and will probably change it next Jobs' presentation. Portable computer upgrade will wait till May or April, i don't remember when it takes place exactly.

I'm waiting for this G5 for years... iwas sad when I realized that he did not annonce the one I was waiting for on last monday... But i'll be patient!

AS soon as possible please :-)

[evildead]

Dual CPU's in the iMac are just not going to happen... its just not.

[hinkhous]

TylerL

I believe what you read about the Apple ADC connector was that in its present form, it is near capacity for power transmission. Increasing the resolution would do little to change the power consumption, but increasing the size of the physical LCD by 2" would increase the total area by about 10%. From what I understand, that would not be possible with the current capabilties of the hardware. Hope that helps resolve your question.

I think that basically debunks the rumor that we will see a 24" cinema display anytime soon...higher native resolutions would remain a possibility, however. It will be interesting to see what the near future holds.

As a side note, iMacs were introduced with G3 processors on May 6, 1998. The G4 PowerMac was not introduced until October 13, 1999, meaning that the two processors coexisted in the consumer and pro lines for over 17 months. Does that mean that we shouldn't expect to see G5 desktops until June of 2003? I doubt it. Most likely is the transition of the Apollo G4 at higher clock speeds than the current incarnation of the G4 until the G5 is a commercially viable microprocessor. I for one am ready for the PowerPC to break the GHz barrier once and for all.

One more thing...I was entirely underwhelmed by the iMac at its introduction, but only because this time around we actually knew it was coming. One of the reasons why the original iMac was and always will be an icon was that it came from nowhere. It was an original. No one could have possibly predicted that Apple would create a low-end machine with such kitschy flair and character that it would become their best selling computer ever.

Over its 3 year life, the orignal iMac became not so original, so a sequel was apparent long before it was viable for Apple to introduce the iMac2. This gave a lot of creative people a lot of time to speculate and dream about what the next incarnation would be. These people are highly skilled 3d modelers, but do they have any credentials for industrial design? Are any of their designs rooted in reality? Could they be produced and sold for a profit? Is it fair for any "MacRumorer" to even judge Apple's iMac2 design on some whimsical rendering that would cost more to produce that the iMac2 costs to buy? I think we all have to look at the iMac2 compared to the original. Ask yourself--is this an improvement to the design and functionality of the first. Some may say yes, some may say no, but to compare a real, mass produceable product to one created in 4 hours using 3d Studio and Photoshop is totally ungrounded in reality. Don't forget that the design of this product took **2 years!**

I guess I am just happy to see some new blood in the Apple lineup. I can't exactly say I love the new design, but it has grown on me like mold. It's hard to believe it has only been a few days since its introduction. I hope that it is even more successful than the first, so that maybe in 3 more years we can see something closer to what we all expected 2002 to bring the iMac.

[networkman]

there is nothing wrong with the dual processor imac idea which won't sound so crazy when a 900 mhz or 1+ ghz g5 is introduced in the pro model

who thought apple would come out with a g4 imac and an lcd imac in the same computer? there is no reason to hold back the dual processor at this time

btw - nice to see you spikey, and you've passed 500 and that makes you the senior member times 5, or a "regular" as they call "over 100" people now

i don't get this "6502" thing they gave to you and my "old" jefhatfield handle though

what does "6502" mean?

[spikey]

why thank you jef. Nice to see u too.

When times are hard for apple then they might well introduce a dual cpu imac, and no doubt that in the future times will be hard. But not any time soon i think, although like jef said, you just never know with apple.

I asked that question about the 6502 on another board, but i dont think i got a response

[networkman]

i found out 6502 was the old chip in the commodore, amiga, and apple II systems

some call this the original chip of modern computing that really made the industry take off in any measurable quantity

so my old handle jefhatfield and your handle represent the original mold of macrumors.com

[samy85114]

I should be very surprise to see that so call dual iMac, well at least in the next 2 years. I was told by people who bought PowerMac dual computer that were not a lot of software who can actually take advantage of these two processors, and I bet that Apple already know it, and that'S why i'm not expecting a iMac dual...

Actually, if you are purchasing a Powermac Dual, you're paying about $800 just to get the second processor, ( i,m not sure about the price ) and actually this is not very useful, except if you use softwares that are compatible with and there's not a lot of them on the market! you're just wasting your money! But, there,S an exception, depend if you're using it as a Server, now that,S pretty useful because AppleShare IP, MacosX... have the capability to use both processors so this is the advantage. but I mean if you just want to buy it just for yourself.... Just think about it.

Just to say that you'll never see an iMac Dual till 2004...

P.S : 2 processors in a computer it,S also too expensive for the company, so it's also very expensive for us! But for those who are pretty rich! .... Go get it, It still a Mac Dual processor, so very powerful!

[Durandal7]

Well look at that, I'm a regular now. Anyway I think dual processors will be reserved for professional models in the future.

[samy85114]

Exactly, like server or 3D rendering even video editing.... now that might be very great nad useful, should be such a pleasure to work on it :) isn't it ?

[hinkhous]

So what really are the benefits to the dual processor Macs? Someone point me to some sort of benchmark. Is the second processor really doing that much more work to make it that much more expensive?

Just an unenlightened Dualie guy...

[MrMacMan]

Well apple has speed test on the dual prosessors... But thoughs always have photoshop.... g4 dual's have been a good thing, and if you don't care about the apple warenty, then you can just overclock it and make it the 867 dual !