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So many things "piggy back" on the success of the iPhone, but that doesn't mean Apple should be compensated. Business doesn't work like that. Apple can realistically only get away for charging for tangible services. They don't and can't realistically charge for "exposure" to customers. Should this web site be paying Apple money because you can access it through the iPhone? MacRumors pays for its own hosting. It is supported by advertising.

iTunes.

You're comparing the web to products. They've got no relevance what so ever.

What about Facebook and Twitter. Both free Apps and Apple doesn't see a penny from either of them despite having huge user bases (especially on Facebook). Why don't you think they should pay Apple some nonsensical magical fee for doing nothing?

Facebook or Twitter are website extensions. They don't sell anything.

I have no idea what deal Netflix has done and I can't see why they would possibly need to do one. Many other providers of video and audio subscription content have apps and don't have a special deal with Apple. The same thing applies - Apple isn't providing a tangible service (i.e. bandwidth) for these Apps. Therefore, the developers don't owe apple a cent.

Netflix & the Sky TV application are interesting ones because I'm not entirely sure how they work within the app store. It'd be interesting to know what Apple receive if anything.

You haven't actually said what the (relevant) difference is.

I keep saying the ecosystem quite a lot but you still don't seem to understand how powerful that is. If you can't or won't understand the difference in approached between the two and the differences between them it explains your failure to understand a lot of the above.
 
this is disappointing

One of the things I am looking forward to whenever I get an iPad is the cross-app sharing for eBooks. Hopefully, the NOOK and Kindle readers will not suffer the same fate as the Sony app.

Apple is starting to annoy me with this recent elite style mindset. If they didn't make products which are a cinch to use, I wouldn't be here. The ease of use is what keeps me using Apple.
 
Don't believe the hype...

I think everyone needs to calm down a little! Just because this has been reported in this way ie. "Evil" Apple stops "poor" Sony selling ebooks through an iOS app, does not necessarily mean that they are going to stop your access to content purchased from other sources, [I think they would be crazy if they tried to do this] it just means that they are going to stop iOS developers from making a direct in-app purchase available from anywhere other than the Apple App Store. I would imagine that Kindle, Amazon etc. will be fine as you don't purchase direct with those apps. I think the poster above who suggested the McD's/Burger King comparison above, got it exactly right, why should Apple set all this up and then let someone else come in and steal their customers!

Get a grip you lot! :)
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; fi-fi) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Me too, removing Kindle would mean no iPad for me.
 
Apple uses its own DRM on its iBooks, compatible with only.. Apple devices!

Ultimately, Apple DRM or Propriety format is the same - available to one device or specific software ( i.e, Kindle reader ).

The reason for the lock down - Apple wants payment for paid content provided on the its devices - after all - content is king for the iDevices - especially the iPad. That is where the $$ is. It appeared Apple was getting better - loosen its grip - but they've just applied it in a different area.

Exactly.

I don't think Apple are that concerned about content to the extent they'll make all their money from it. They just want control of it and enough to keep people locked in to buying their hardware which seems to be were the profit comes from.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Apple make a move against Amazon. They're moving into the App store game on Android and are direct competitors with music, TV, films, eBooks so I don't think Apple wants to see them become a prominent figure within the App store.
 
"The ability to purchase content from outside the company's in-app purchasing mechanism" has always been against the (very public) policies of the App Store. How is this new? [/fud]

Did you miss the not "let[ting] customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store" part? That's new, and it's absolutely absurd.
 
stupid

Sometime Apple is pretty stupid. This is one of those times. Greedy bastards. Sorry, but this move is just over the top. I think they've crossed the line and it will come back to bite 'em in the ass.
 
I'm a loyal Apple fan and I don't even care about Sony Reader but I think this is terrible decision that reflect very badly on Apple. I hope they change their position and stop making silly decisions like this!
 
You know what's irritating?

People acting like this is new, and swallowing whole what's clearly manipulation of the media. Yes, yes... Apple controlling... very sexy story. Yum.

Kongregate. What? Yes, Kongregate. Recently Android denied the app "Kongregate", because it violated a "non-compete" clause in the market. Kongregate allowed free access to hundreds of Flash games... but let users download the games and store them on their SD card. They moved to change the app so that it did not download the games, but instead allowed users to play them from the web.

How's that related? Well, just that fact that ALL App Stores have certain types of restrictions. But, unlike what's happening here, people are misreporting this. There's this SEEMINGLY little known restriction, that Apple and Google tried to hold people to when submitting apps. No matter WHO you are... don't take credit card numbers inside the app. If you want to do a purchase inside the app, use the in-app purchase API. There is NO exclusion for magazines, or whatever. This is simply the way things are.

Time Magazine had this same fight LAST year with Apple. Oddly... many links to this stand-off seem to have evaporated in relevance. Time ended up creating a mechanism by which existing subscribers could be verified and download the content for free.

Check it out:

http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/201...blem-is-trouble-for-every-magazine-publisher/
No other magazine publisher has approval sell their own iTunes app subscriptions, either. But Apple and Steve Jobs had made a point of reaching out to Time Inc. executives and editors before the iPad’s launch, and encouraged them to build digital editions for the platform.

And Time Inc. executives tell me they had been communicating with Apple throughout the spring as they developed their subscription plans, and had been told that Apple approved.
Even then, I scratched my head at the dark speculation of Apple's evil intent. Isn't this rejection part of a policy that's been in place for a while? Let's see...

Apple has TWO problems.

One that it shares with Google, one of its own making.

#1.) CREDIT CARDS - Apps shouldn't take credit cards. This is just common sense. You don't need 700 fake banking apps eliminated from Android Marketplace to know that apps that ask for credit card information are pretty serious issues, especially if users can't confirm the information is being transmitted securely. So... as a rule... just NO. Google says this too. I've seen some exceptions, but I think its a hard, hard rules to enforce, especially when you confirm big companies who take care with sensitive data. Apple usually requires people to go through the Safari browser to communicate this data to the company.

#2.) CONTENT RATING - Apple rates its apps for content. Apple has created parental controls. Apple wants to be able to marginally control whether someone is able to spontaneously create a porn app. This... seems like a VERY, very hard situation. With magazines that have clear policies on nudity, etc... Apple has tried to be flexible with outside content. But, what about eBooks? Even access to the Kama Sutra have gotten some apps in hot water. What about web browsers and ebook readers, Apple? Well... indeed. That's the heart of this issue.

This is a repeat of the Time Magazine mess. Kindle isn't "NEXT". That's just yellow journalism. The Kindle App doesn't DO in-app purchases at all. Apple doesn't want "their cut" more than they want "safe commerce" on the commerce process to not be violated.

Apple's not an innocent in this. They continue to have mis-queues and bottleneck issues that harm the development process. They recently tried to be more transparent about App Store guidelines.

Every story on rejection, should reference this hallmark statement from Apple last year:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/09/09statement.html
September 9, 2010

In particular, we are relaxing all restrictions on the development tools used to create iOS apps, as long as the resulting apps do not download any code. This should give developers the flexibility they want, while preserving the security we need.

In addition, for the first time we are publishing the App Store Review Guidelines to help developers understand how we review submitted apps. We hope it will make us more transparent and help our developers create even more successful apps for the App Store.

Yes. And they DID!

http://developer.apple.com/appstore/guidelines.html

Non-devs, can read many of these guidelines here:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/thoughts-on-apples-new-app-store-guidelines/

11. Purchasing and currencies

11.1
Apps that unlock or enable additional features or functionality with mechanisms other than the App Store will be rejected
11.2
Apps utilizing a system other than the In App Purchase API (IAP) to purchase content, functionality, or services in an app will be rejected
11.2 is a toughie, isn't it? But, iLounge's Jessie Holington wrote:
This explains the logic behind PayPal’s mobile payment library, since this is designed to be used for physical goods and services. Apps such as Kindle or Nook should also continue to be safe, since content is not purchased in the app, but rather via a web browser. Further, both Kindle and Nook content can be used outside of the application, as per section 11.3.

Recently, Apple was also criticized for not allowing charities to take money through PayPal. Stories implied Apple wanted its cut. Here's Apple's guideline:
21. Charities and contributions
Apps that include the ability to make donations to recognized charitable organizations must be free. The collection of donations must be done via a web site in Safari or an SMS
Sounds like the end of the world, doesn't it?

~ CB
 
Apple are losing it

I have been using Apple computers daily for almost 15 years and follow Apples movements avidly, however they are no longer the company that I used to love.

The desktop line for the power user, something which Apple excelled in has been neglected, the mac os as we know it is now gradually heading towards the dumbed down ios route. And Apples greed is becoming more and more apparent. Not impressed....If only Linux was more user friendly and more widley supported I would make the jump.
 
Facebook or Twitter are website extensions. They don't sell anything.

Facebook sells a lot of things. I'm approaching this from a different place than you seem to be.

I'm looking at things from a practical cost point of view. If Apple incurs cost from the usage of a specific app, then it makes sense for them to seek to recover that cost in some way.

Neither Facebook nor Kindle impose any costs on Apple once the free app has been downloaded.

Netflix & the Sky TV application are interesting ones because I'm not entirely sure how they work within the app store. It'd be interesting to know what Apple receive if anything.

Apple receives nothing because it provides nothing. It's quite simple. Companies are obviously going to be willing to pay Apple for things when there is a need for them to do so, but why would Sky give Apple any money when Apple isn't doing anything to help them? Sky has to pay for the rights to their content, they have to pay for the bandwidth.

I keep saying the ecosystem quite a lot but you still don't seem to understand how powerful that is.

I don't get what you mean. Android offers the Android Market as the main way of obtaining apps. Sure you can install them from other sources, but most people aren't going to bother. Apple offers the App Store as the only way of obtaining apps.

As far as this discussion goes, the experience is the same. You open up the App Store/Market/Marketplace (iOS/Android/Windows Phone 7), search for "Kindle" and download the free app. All three stores will manage updates for you.

If you can't or won't understand the difference in approached between the two and the differences between them it explains your failure to understand a lot of the above.

Given the paragraph above this quote, I don't see a difference. Please explain how it's any different.
 
Misleading article

I think there's more to this story. For one, Sony has never sold anything in the App Store, so rejecting their app isn't a change of focus. They're probably doing something, maybe related to storing credit card information on the device, that other people don't do.

The day the Kindle and Nook aren't allowed on the iPad is the day I sell it, but I just don't believe that's the case based on this story alone. I hope Sony figures it out with Apple because I was looking forward to having them as a competitor.
 
This is a huge decision for Apple. One one end Amazon/Sony/etc. are competitors and on the other end people who bought iPhone/iPads use those other sources of Media. What about Netflix, just because you are not buying the content, its ok (although you do pay a monthly fee to them). It may be tough for Apple to hold a hard line on this issue of in-app purchases.
 
Did you miss the not "let[ting] customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store" part? That's new, and it's absolutely absurd.

Unless this comes officially from Apple, I would calm down a bit. I have little doubt this whole thing is all about Sony wanting to build their book store right into the app (unlike the Nook and Kindle app). There is no way Apple would be willing to take this PR hit by not allowing these apps at all. People need to remember, this is all just a rumor now.
 
Legal issues and apple guidelines notwithstanding, it comes down to this; How much ownership do we have if, after buying a product we're told where and when to use it to add content in order to enhance our use of said product. After we purchase an ipad or iphone who the hell is apple to dictate to us what we should or shouldn't have on the items we own outright. Basically what apple is saying is you may own the hardware, but THEY own the experience. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. I know the fanboys will justify Apples actions and the will of Jesus Jobs but really guys, when is enough going to be enough. I think it's high time that instead of letting Apple flex their muscles, we as consumers did a little flexing of our own. By doing nothing we really can't complain about corporations getting out of control. It's the consumer that allows and empowers corporate greed.
 
I have been using Apple computers daily for almost 15 years and follow Apples movements avidly, however they are no longer the company that I used to love.

The desktop line for the power user, something which Apple excelled in has been neglected, the mac os as we know it is now gradually heading towards the dumbed down ios route. And Apples greed is becoming more and more apparent. Not impressed....If only Linux was more user friendly and more widley supported I would make the jump.
The amount of misguide posts and negative ratings on this story sounds like the story is being misreported. I think MacRumors should update it a bit to include some of what I just mentioned. I feel bad for all the people thinking Apple has chosen to block the Kindle... as if that would ever happen. Sony has invented a story. Snap out of it. They have clear options. Do what Amazon does.

~ CB
 
Depends on if you consider tablets to still be an emerging market that one company is currently dominating. It would be hard to declare a monopoly in that space at this time because the chips haven't fallen.

Also a good point, yes.
 
You know what's irritating?

People acting like this is new, and swallowing whole what's clearly manipulation of the media. Yes, yes... Apple controlling... very sexy story. Yum.
Sounds like the end of the world, doesn't it?

~ CB

Quoting from the Guidelines is rather pointless when Apple ignores them and only published some of them.

Many of them are vague and are totally open to interpretation (and obviously Apple has the final say in this on a case by case basis).

Some Apps have been rejected for things that other very popular apps do already.

As I pointed out already in this thread, Apple's own "iBooks" app violates these terms (and always has done), yet it is available in the App Store.
 
If only Linux was more user friendly and more widley supported I would make the jump.

The kernal is too fragmented. What runs on one linux installation (Red Hat for example) may not run on another (Ubuntu for example). I just threw out names here...

Also, when Lindows/Linspire first came out - I looked into them. At the time there was not that many apps for Linux and Lindows had their own app store. I think what killed it for me and many people was anything not bought through their app store would not run. this was early on and things may have changed - but that is what happened when I first downloaded it.

Hey Mac OSX and iOS are Unix right? would not be that hard for developers to convert / port their apps to a Linux distribution (Ubuntu for example, since it is free and the most compatible to other linux's at the moment). OF course that would mean we would lose the tight integration of Apple OS with ApPle hardware giving a trouble-free environment. I for one went with Mac, because I was sick of the problems with Windows. Even with Win 7, I am hearing of complaints that one of the weekly updates broke something....
 
Sets a dangerous precedent

Steve Jobs obviously feels very strongly about this.

I emailed him last year asking about the related dilemma certain apps face whereby their users need the ability to purchase credit (i.e. calling or messaging credit). I asked if he thought it ridiculous that on other platforms standard third-party credit card processing could be used at ~3%, but on the iPhone the in-app purchasing mechanism had to be used at a massive 30%.

His answer was, simply, "Nope."

Currently such applications still sell 'credit' via other means, such as a website. I'm now concerned that Apple will insist all apps requiring credits have them purchased via in-app purchasing. This will, by necessity, result in iPhone versions of popular messaging apps being significantly more expensive for the consumer - no developer is going to absorb a 27% hit! Most calling and messaging services probably don't have margins on individual service units of that size themselves!
 
Quoting from the Guidelines is rather pointless when Apple ignores them and only published some of them.
Not pointless, unless you have no point. I have a point, and I think I made it very well.

Many of them are vague and are totally open to interpretation (and obviously Apple has the final say in this on a case by case basis).

Some Apps have been rejected for things that other very popular apps do already.

As I pointed out already in this thread, Apple's own "iBooks" app violates these terms (and always has done), yet it is available in the App Store.
Don't be silly. iBooks uses your iTunes account. What other guideline are you referring to? Apple has every license to allow users to update their iTunes billing info in their own apps. Don't be vague (as you accuse Apple of). Refer to the specific rules I quoted, whether they work or don't. They seem clear. Next.

~ CB
 
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