Adobe Targets 3D Gaming with Flash Player 11 and AIR 3

juannacho · Sep 21, 2011

nagromme said:
This is at least interesting as an alternative way to get Unity 3D content into more desktop browsers. Unity has partly completed and demoed export-to-Flash.

Indeed! Here's a very interesting video showing a Unity export to the Flash 11 player, and demo'd in browser too so a fully legit POC. And easily of a quality that you could describe as 'console quality'. Let's not forget - there's some real trash on consoles right now too!

Frankly I find the whole "I'm a 'proper' developer, Flash is for noobs" nerdgasm towards Flash a bit tiring. The simple fact is that there are currently far more developers fluent in AS3 than Objective C who may well find this an extremely interesting potential route into iOS dev.

What's wrong with that?

Or don't we want these scummy Flash people in the 'iOS club'?

TMay · Sep 21, 2011

parapup said:
How the hell does Flash work so well on Windows? How the hell does Silverlight work so well on Windows? Watching Hulu and Netflix on my Thinkpad with Intel GPU is a piece of cake - 25% CPU tops - normally only 18-20%. Very little fan noise. Even with Firefox - although it is little better with IE/ActiveX.

Bring them on Mac however and it's a stinking bag of hurt - gotta think some platform issues are at play.

Lookie Apple - I am a user. I don't care about your ostensible "thoughts" on anything. Neither do I care about whose fault it is that both mainstream browser plugins work like crap on OSX. I will be quick to dump your toy platform and use something that works well. Oh, and it's not just about Flash/Silverlight. Your own software stinks as well - Lion, Safari, iTunes, Xcode being the ones I was bitten by in a short span of a month. So take this hint - get your act together.

Let me get this straight; you are complaining about this, but "I will be quick to dump your toy platform and use something that works well."

What is stopping you from dumping OSX now?

GoodWatch · Sep 21, 2011

BRLawyer said:
Hasn't Adobe buried that bloated zombie yet? Who the hell cares about Flash these days?

Adobe's eternal promises for 1000x "better" performance over whatever last version of its crappy software means nothing to any reasonable consumer, and even less to Mac users in general.

Once more, bury that rotten corpse and let us move on, please...

Flash IS DEAD.

Is that your opinion or just because Steve said so? Tough talk = more Apple brownie points I guess. You give us real Apple fans a bad name.

*LTD* · Sep 21, 2011

GoodWatch said:
Is that your opinion or just because Steve said so?

What Steve says usually comes to pass. Maybe, just maybe, it might be smart to start listening to what he says, since he seems to know exactly what he's talking about most of the time. The industry at large seems to have no problem following what he says. Why do you?

Just ask RIM, HP, Palm, even *that other* Steve.

Stridder44 · Sep 21, 2011

I mean I guess that's nifty, but controls on touch screens are terrible already. Gaming on tablets/mobile devices is very limited and dumbed down as it is, so why bother with all this? Just to attempt to keep Flash around longer?

ericmooreart · Sep 21, 2011

djrod said:
Most of web developers ( at least freelancers) are Mac users and I can tell you that 99% of us are excited for HTML5 and CSS3 and does not care about flash anymore.

The future of web design is websites that adapt it's design to the device you are using, one web, multiple devices with no need of using pinch to zoom or whatever, and this is something you do with CSS3, no flash

Html5 is a nightmare.

My company develops complex web banners and sites. for companies like ATT and Fedex to name a few. I can't tell you how many times a Firefox update has killed a site. Or how many times we built things for Facebook only to have Firefox like it but not Chrome. Or having to make mp4 videos for Safari and Firefox while having to make an .ogv version for Chrome. Or having CSS work in one browser but not fully in another.

Flash has its faults for sure but its far from dead. Media companies ask for 95% of their content in flash because they know the user experience will be the same across all browsers.

vladi · Sep 21, 2011

bleaknik said:
Every time my PC and/or Mac crashes... it's Flash (that or the NVidia drivers...). Do I hear my laptop's fan spinning up? I'm running a web page with Flash. Seriously, I will pass right over your content if it's written in Flash.

Thanks!

That's all due OSXs' locked internals that only Apple has a key to. That is the real and sole reason.

ericmooreart · Sep 21, 2011

*LTD* said:
What Steve says usually comes to pass. Maybe, just maybe, it might be smart to start listening to what he says, since he seems to know exactly what he's talking about most of the time. The industry at large seems to have no problem following what he says. Why do you?

Just ask RIM, HP, Palm, even *that other* Steve.

Just like FCPX

vladi · Sep 21, 2011

accessoriesguy said:
I guess this is important for people who enjoy playing flash games.

I would have much preferred much more efficient flash, that used up less RAM, and much less processing power. That's the real main reason why Apple devices don't support flash.

Complex HTML5 uses as much CPU as Flash. Playing video in HTML5 uses as much of CPU as playing SD video in Flash.

Flash has problem with garbage collection that stores in RAM. They have to rewrite that.

MorphingDragon · Sep 21, 2011

Now Flash and CS can lag EVEN HARDER!

jimmueller · Sep 21, 2011

I fully expect the hardware acceleration fine print to say "Windows Only".

jpthebean · Sep 21, 2011

ericmooreart said:
My company develops complex web banners and sites.

Now there's an oxymoron. I've never seen a web banner I couldn't have built myself in half a day. Not to mention, I'd be ashamed as a developer if my job were to clutter the internet with annoying ads, banners, and flash pages.

jmbill · Sep 21, 2011

After reading this article by Daring Fireball...

http://daringfireball.net/2010/11/flash_free_and_cheating_with_google_chrome

...I went for the no Flash approach and life has been great ever since.

unlinked · Sep 21, 2011

jpthebean said:
Now there's an oxymoron. I've never seen a web banner I couldn't have built myself in half a day. Not to mention, I'd be ashamed as a developer if my job were to clutter the internet with annoying ads, banners, and flash pages.

What does the company you work for do?

parapup · Sep 21, 2011

Eidorian said:
Silverlight works well under OS X too. I recall watching the Olympics and several of Microsoft's keynotes with minimal bandwidth, DVR functions, and no fan spin up on my Macbook with only 768 kb/s!

Netflix uses Silverlight. Last I checked (few days ago) on my Core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM - Silverlight/Netflix used 130% CPU. For the same movie on my i7 ThinkPad, IE/Silverlight uses 12-20% CPU.

Why yes - here is the proof! Mac is using GT330 GPU, Windows is using Intel HD 3000 GPU for extra sadness

IconicM · Sep 21, 2011

majortom1981 said:
With Microsoft now on board with the try to use html 5 and not plug ins its just a matter of time when flash is not needed at all.

I am not familiar with video software, but according to c-net, a version of MS Metro would not be running flash either. First, I did not know they were introducing different versions. Second, if what c-net says is true, then as you say, with MS and Apple pushing Flash away, it seems just a matter of time before Flash is no more, try as they might to maintain relevancy.

Eidorian · Sep 21, 2011

parapup said:
Netflix uses Silverlight. Last I checked (few days ago) on my Core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM - Silverlight/Netflix used 130% CPU. For the same movie on my i7 ThinkPad uses 12-20% CPU.

Why yes - here is the proof!

At what resolution?

parapup · Sep 21, 2011

TMay said:
Let me get this straight; you are complaining about this, but "I will be quick to dump your toy platform and use something that works well."

What is stopping you from dumping OSX now?

Dumped Lion already. Did not buy new Air because of Lion - got a ThinkPad X220. Still have a MBP used for development workstation running SL - will have to inevitably dump that too when it is time - I've invested money in it and it sort of works for development purposes. When it's time for changing the dev workstation I bet I will build my own and put Linux on it.

Thanks for asking though

----------

Eidorian said:
At what resolution?

I had also tried it earlier on the same machine - Win7 and OS X, with same 1680x1050 monitor with similar results.

For the screenshot - Both were running the same movie in HD (that's what Netflix told me) - one on ThinkPad (1366x768) and other on MBP (1680x1050).

If screen resolution was something you were thinking of attributing the extra CPU usage to - little Googling tells me on the Air with lower-res screen Netflix takes similar amounts of CPU - > 100%.

Eidorian · Sep 21, 2011

parapup said:
I had also tried it earlier on the same machine - Win7 and OS X, with same 1680x1050 monitor with similar results.

For the screenshot - Both were running the same movie in HD (that's what Netflix told me) - one on ThinkPad (1366x768) and other on MBP (1680x1050).

That makes a big difference. My experience was on 360/480p video over Silverlight. HTTP is so much cheaper to stream over.

artziggy · Sep 21, 2011

Lost Cause

How about before adding 3D they got it to work first. Lost cause.

PeterQVenkman · Sep 21, 2011

Eidorian said:
Silverlight works well under OS X too. I recall watching the Olympics and several of Microsoft's keynotes with minimal bandwidth, DVR functions, and no fan spin up on my Macbook with only 768 kb/s!

Silverlight is by far the best online streaming solution I have used. Netflix uses it, and they dish out massive amounts of video. That alone tells us how awesome it is.

50548 · Sep 21, 2011

GoodWatch said:
You give us real Apple fans a bad name.

Oh, great...so what are "real" Apple fans like you supposed to think?

That Flash is great and all is fine with Adobe's Mac support for the last 20 years? Gimme a break.

FloatingBones · Sep 21, 2011

Benjamins said:
speaking of Machnarium.... it only runs on iPad2....
the power of Flash. turn a simple 2D game into a resource hog.

There's also a strange little note from the developer on the app's entry in the app store:

If the game does not work properly after install, please try to reset your iPad2. Follow this advice: http://bit.ly/btsL2G [which expands to http://www.maclife.com/article/howtos/fix_crashing_apps_your_iphone_and_ipad ]

The beauty of the App Store is that these things will all sort themselves out. If you don't like apps where the developer tells you how to reset your app, you don't have to buy it.

adder7712 · Sep 21, 2011

BRLawyer said:
Oh, great...so what are "real" Apple fans like you supposed to think?

That Flash is great and all is fine with Adobe's Mac support for the last 20 years? Gimme a break.

So Mac fans HAVE to hate Flash?

Unlike most of you, I don't have anything against Flash. In fact, I haven't encountered a browser crash that is caused by Flash. Maybe because Safari, Chrome and Firefox isolates the plug-in process.

50548 · Sep 21, 2011

adder7712 said:
So Mac fans HAVE to hate Flash?

Unlike most of you, I don't have anything against Flash. In fact, I haven't encountered a browser crash that is caused by Flash. Maybe because Safari, Chrome and Firefox isolates the plug-in process.

I didn't say that all Mac fans have to hate Flash, but to state the opposite is simply even more absurd...unless you have no idea about Adobe's utter disregard for the Mac platform in the last 20 years.

As for sandboxing the process, this doesn't make Flash in itself any better - it just shows how crappy Adobe's implementation has been since forever.

Adobe Targets 3D Gaming with Flash Player 11 and AIR 3

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