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online printing: vistaprint

G

gonnabuyamac

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 26, 2006
412
0
The company I work for typically uses VistaPrint for their printing needs. I recently designed a letterhead in Illustrator, printed it out off my Canon Pixma (which seems to have good color), and checked it with what I was looking at on my computer screen. Everything looked pretty good - I used a blue color that we have as part of our corporate ID (so, it's the same cmyk %'s every time).

We got the letterhead back from VistaPrint, and they were tremendously darker and the blue had more of a purplish tint to it than what I printed off or what's on my screen, which is pretty well calibrated. Any idea of what I could have done wrong, or does vistaprint just suck?
 
B

barrysfarm

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2005
108
0
does vistaprint just suck?
Click to expand...

yeah. pretty much.

I think of them like a high quantity kinkos. If I need a 1500 flyer cards & it doesn't matter if not a great print, I'll go through them. We have two versions of our business cards: a high quality print & a low quality print.

The high quality ones we give to people we meet who seem interested. They were printed on specific paper, with specific pantone colors, and are a special size. We probably go through 150 a month.

The low quality ones we use at craft shows and fashion shows. We usually give out about 1000 a day. They are standard size, cmyk, on the heaviest stock available. Most people probably throw these away.

The high quality ones were printed at a local print shop, the low quality ones were printed with vistaprint. They have their uses. They're (relatively) fast & their cheap, but not much else.
 
A

ac6789

macrumors member
Jun 28, 2007
71
0
I agree that vistaprint is a high-quality kinkos as the previous poster says, but it should be noted that a CMYK blue is one of the hardest colours to reproduce with any accuracy/consistency unless you're using a PMS colour. Especially when the blue contains magenta, an improperly calibrated press will almost certainly produce a purple-blue. Even a properly calibrated press will have issues with this!

Which is why for branding-critical pieces such as letterhead, I would recommend going to a local printer and attend a press check to ensure the colours are correct, and make the blue a PMS colour, if possible. Paying a bit more for a local printer is worth it, IMHO.
 
Z.Beeblebrox

Z.Beeblebrox

macrumors regular
Nov 27, 2007
107
0
NJ / NYC
Rule of thumb: when designing ANY corporate stationery element, always specifiy a PMS color to maintain consistency throughout the brand. As others have stated, for corporate identity projects, use a real press and to ensure correct color matching, request a color proof before signing off on the print job. This makes things much easier and less costly if you have to re-print.
 
G

gonnabuyamac

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 26, 2006
412
0
thanks

this has all been very helpful. i'm new to graphic design (always been an artist, new to the digital side of it all - but loving it... most of the time). i'm wondering if there are printed charts i can get of pms color swatches. i know my monitor is pretty accurate, but i'd still like to see the colors in real life, if you will.
 
T

Toppa G's

macrumors 6502
Jun 19, 2003
426
2
The exurbs, MN
gonnabuyamac said:
this has all been very helpful. i'm new to graphic design (always been an artist, new to the digital side of it all - but loving it... most of the time). i'm wondering if there are printed charts i can get of pms color swatches. i know my monitor is pretty accurate, but i'd still like to see the colors in real life, if you will.
Click to expand...

Pantone swatch books are available from Pantone. You can buy a 3-book set of the Color Bridge books which include PMS colors as well as their approximate CMYK equivalent for $300.
 
AlexisV

AlexisV

macrumors 68000
Mar 12, 2007
1,713
261
Manchester, UK
Don't rely on your Canon to give you accurate colour reproduction. It's just not possible with inkjets. You need a calibrated colour laser or similar to give you accurate colours.

Either way, you need to invest in some Pantone colour books. Unfortunately they are quite expensive :(
 
G

gonnabuyamac

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 26, 2006
412
0
AlexisV said:
Don't rely on your Canon to give you accurate colour reproduction. It's just not possible with inkjets. You need a calibrated colour laser or similar to give you accurate colours.

Either way, you need to invest in some Pantone colour books. Unfortunately they are quite expensive :(
Click to expand...

Any suggestions on a good printer?
 
Z.Beeblebrox

Z.Beeblebrox

macrumors regular
Nov 27, 2007
107
0
NJ / NYC
AlexisV said:
you need to invest in some Pantone colour books. Unfortunately they are quite expensive :(
Click to expand...

Every graphic artist needs a Pantone guide. If you're short on cash, try eBay. I recommend getting the color guide with both coated and uncoated swatches. It's a good beginners book.
 
brisbaneguy29

brisbaneguy29

macrumors 6502
Nov 27, 2007
370
1
Brisbane
Any idea of what I could have done wrong, or does vistaprint just suck?
Click to expand...

Basically you have made some general assumptions, and that is where you have gone wrong.
1. You have assumed what you see on screen is what your going to get. Your screen is RGB, and can produce a HUGE amount of colours not available to CMYK. Has your monitor been colour calibrated to the Vistprint ICC profiles? Unless it is, you cannot rely on your monitor.

2. You have assumed what your Canon Pixma can produce, is what Vistaprint can produce. Inkjet colours are generally more vivid then CMYK. Has your printed be colour calibrated to the Vistaprint ICC profiles? Unless it is you cannot rely on your inkjet.

Now I am not saying Vistaprint doesn't suck, they may well do, I have never used them, but they will be gang printing your job with many others at the same time. They will be running to set CMYK ink levels, and basically won't care about the individual colour of each job. They have no way of tuning the colour for your job, as they have no idea of what your seeing on your monitor, or printed out of your printer.

Pantone swatch books are available from Pantone. You can buy a 3-book set of the Color Bridge books which include PMS colors as well as their approximate CMYK equivalent for $300.
Click to expand...

This is the only way to ensure your going to get back what you want.

Using a colour bridge essential to anyone doing design, and printing in CMYK. The Pantone spot books are good for spot PMS reproduction, if your actually printing the job as a spot colour job, but if your printing it CMYK, you MUST use a Colour Bridge. It doesn't matter what it looks like on your screen, or on your printer, if you use the known CMYK colour values, that is the best way of at least getting close to what you want. Even then it will probably be off by 5%.

Other things that can effect the final colour are:
1. The whiteness of the paper stock
2. The type of paper stock. (Coated / Uncoated / Matte / Satin)
3. Any additional coating you put over the top like varnishes or celloglaze.
4. The light source you view the colours in. Sit in a room with yellow, warm lights, then walk out into the sun, the colour changes. This is because CMYK relies on reflected light, not transmitted light.

Printing is not an exact science, and it is amazing that anything ever gets printed right, and at best, it is a good compromise from start to finish.
 
F

foreignconcepts

macrumors member
Dec 31, 2008
42
0
This is REALLY good information as I just had the same issue with my corporate business cards vs. Vistaprint. Thanks guys for sharing your insights!
 
J

johnckurien

macrumors newbie
Dec 31, 2010
1
0
Veraprint

One reliable online printer that I have dealt with recently is Veraprint.com. Their quality is excellent, their turnaround time is quick, and their customer service is on the ball. Check them out if you want...http://www.veraprint.com
 
definitive

definitive

macrumors 68020
Aug 4, 2008
2,050
893
i've done stuff with them before, along with a few others, and the print quality was what you'd expect from a cheap printing company - not that great. they specialize in cheap high volume printing rather than high quality printing. i'm sure if they took their time to calibrate their equipment and use proper media, then their stuff would be better, but you get what you pay for.
 
7on

7on

macrumors 601
Nov 9, 2003
4,939
0
Dress Rosa
We use printrunner.com and I've had fair success with them - though nothing color critical. We did run into the blue issue with them and business cards.
 
P

priceshirley

macrumors newbie
Feb 27, 2011
10
0
We had a similar problem. The blue and green are our standard colors and the same shade must be identical in all our printing. I suggest you go to another printing center. We tried 48HourPrint and we found them to be the best. They are skillful and offer very reasonable prices. They offer various kinds of printing services like menu card printing, letterheads, envelops, door hangers, etc. We found that they understood our colors the best.
 
Last edited:
S

Spiral21x

macrumors newbie
Jan 26, 2009
27
0
Sure..because online companies are happy to put their negative testimonials up.. The only way to check out a print company is with samples or really high res photo examples, or trusted user reviews, not the ones they cherry pick for their own website.
 
SamuraiArtGuy

SamuraiArtGuy

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2010
119
41
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
about Inkjet Printers

Along those lines, you might find this PDF doc of interest.

"Your Inkjet Printer LIES"
http://www.fantastic-realities.com/proguides/FRSproguide_YourPrinterLies.pdf

The gist is this: The Majority of Home/SOHO Inkjet Printers sold are intended to print vivid, saturated colors that make sales presentations and your vacations snapshots look spiffy. But for proofing a print job, they are terrible. They are just not color accurate. Inkjet printers use CMYK ink, but translate Compisite RGB screen data to print.

The critical thing to understand, is that color on screen is displayed in RGB, for Red, Blue and Green LIGHT, the way TV’s make color. Printers render color in CMYK, or variations of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black INK. These are different technologies, even using different physics. The reason they don’t look the same is that they can’t.

But the point is that print colors are specified as CMYK colors or PMS Colors, the language of ink, vs the RGB color of your display.

I have this out with Clients ALL THE FRAKKIN' TIME.
 
W

winston1236

macrumors 68000
Dec 13, 2010
1,902
319
gonnabuyamac said:
The company I work for typically uses VistaPrint for their printing needs. I recently designed a letterhead in Illustrator, printed it out off my Canon Pixma (which seems to have good color), and checked it with what I was looking at on my computer screen. Everything looked pretty good - I used a blue color that we have as part of our corporate ID (so, it's the same cmyk %'s every time).

We got the letterhead back from VistaPrint, and they were tremendously darker and the blue had more of a purplish tint to it than what I printed off or what's on my screen, which is pretty well calibrated. Any idea of what I could have done wrong, or does vistaprint just suck?
Click to expand...

watch one of their ads, of course they are no good. find a local printer they are everywhere then you can see in person
 
definitive

definitive

macrumors 68020
Aug 4, 2008
2,050
893
brisbaneguy29 said:
Basically you have made some general assumptions, and that is where you have gone wrong.
1. You have assumed what you see on screen is what your going to get. Your screen is RGB, and can produce a HUGE amount of colours not available to CMYK. Has your monitor been colour calibrated to the Vistprint ICC profiles? Unless it is, you cannot rely on your monitor.

2. You have assumed what your Canon Pixma can produce, is what Vistaprint can produce. Inkjet colours are generally more vivid then CMYK. Has your printed be colour calibrated to the Vistaprint ICC profiles? Unless it is you cannot rely on your inkjet.

Now I am not saying Vistaprint doesn't suck, they may well do, I have never used them, but they will be gang printing your job with many others at the same time. They will be running to set CMYK ink levels, and basically won't care about the individual colour of each job. They have no way of tuning the colour for your job, as they have no idea of what your seeing on your monitor, or printed out of your printer.



This is the only way to ensure your going to get back what you want.

Using a colour bridge essential to anyone doing design, and printing in CMYK. The Pantone spot books are good for spot PMS reproduction, if your actually printing the job as a spot colour job, but if your printing it CMYK, you MUST use a Colour Bridge. It doesn't matter what it looks like on your screen, or on your printer, if you use the known CMYK colour values, that is the best way of at least getting close to what you want. Even then it will probably be off by 5%.

Other things that can effect the final colour are:
1. The whiteness of the paper stock
2. The type of paper stock. (Coated / Uncoated / Matte / Satin)
3. Any additional coating you put over the top like varnishes or celloglaze.
4. The light source you view the colours in. Sit in a room with yellow, warm lights, then walk out into the sun, the colour changes. This is because CMYK relies on reflected light, not transmitted light.

Printing is not an exact science, and it is amazing that anything ever gets printed right, and at best, it is a good compromise from start to finish.
Click to expand...

is there some kind of a online guide or book i can look up for all the info on dealing with print proofing, using pms instead of cmyk colors to get best print results, etc.?
 
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