Apple Releases MainStage 2.2.1 via Mac App Store

Whoa whoa whoa.

What the hell is this?

MainStage "2.2" is a PAID UPGRADE for users who spent $500 for the boxed copy?

Seriously?

FIVE HUNDRED dollars, and because there's no easy way to upgrade stuff that wasn't purchased through the App Store (that is, Apple is too lazy to implement a system where you can buy the MAS version of an app for free if you already own it externally)- I have to pay another $30 for something I ALREADY OWN just to get a minor version bump, and other critical bug fixes?

Let me guess, when Logic 9.2 hits, I'll have to pay another TWO HUNDRED ($200) dollars just to get THAT upgrade as well?

I really don't mind paying for major updates. Truly I don't. Logic 7, Logic 8, Logic 9. Bought them all.

However, if Apple is going to nail me $30 (for Mainstage, or even $200 for Logic Pro) for MINOR upgrades that fix CRITICAL bugs, then **** this ****. This platform is dead. I don't have time for this crap, I bought into Apple because the platform was stable and reliable. I don't give a flying **** about the Mac App Store, but apparently Apple does enough to try and penny/nickel me to death all because they don't give a **** about the users who paid for the boxed version of their software, and offer no suitable upgrade path to the MAS versions.

This is out of control. Apple is out of control.

How is anyone supposed to invest in a platform that treats it's users like this? I know the idiot masses will, because they don't know any better. But what about professionals? Oh, right, I'm sure Apple is going to take care of us with Logic 10, and by that, I mean they'll just target youtubers who think it's hilarious to re-live that scene from Freddy got Fingered ("Daddy want a sausage?") on their $50 M-Audio keyboards.

-SC

Glad to see they're actively fixing bugs in their professional apps. It's unfortunate that Apple seems to moving away from the high-end, professional suites.

ScottishCaptain said:

...
However, if Apple is going to nail me $30 (for Mainstage, or even $200 for Logic Pro) for MINOR upgrades that fix CRITICAL bugs, then **** this ****. This platform is dead. I don't have time for this crap, I bought into Apple because the platform was stable and reliable. I don't give a flying **** about the Mac App Store, but apparently Apple does enough to try and penny/nickel me to death all because they don't give a **** about the users who paid for the boxed version of their software, and offer no suitable upgrade path to the MAS versions.

This is out of control. Apple is out of control.
...

Click to expand...

How do we know 2.2.1 is an App Store exclusive? It may be—and then that’s $30 that pro users may well be furious over (although you’ll also get FREE updates for life after that—you’re not just paying for this version alone—and $30 really sounds like very little to me as a professional software buyer). But currently, I don’t see clear reason to be so certain of this dire fate: the MainStage support site still lists Software Update as a way to get the latest version—so maybe the non-MAS version is not abandoned after all? I’d check Software Update over the coming week or so before getting too upset. Just in case a free update shows up there. I’d be surprised if if didn’t, unless Apple has said otherwise and I missed it.

http://apple.com/support/mainstage

nagromme said:

How do we know 2.2.1 is an App Store exclusive? It may be—and then that’s $30 that pro users may well be furious over (although you’ll also get FREE updates for life after that—you’re not just paying for this version alone—and $30 really sounds like very little to me as a professional software buyer). But currently, I don’t see clear reason to be so certain of this dire fate: the MainStage support site still lists Software Update as a way to get the latest version—so maybe the non-MAS version is not abandoned after all? I’d check Software Update over the coming week or so before getting too upset. Just in case a free update shows up there. I’d be surprised if if didn’t, unless Apple has said otherwise and I missed it.

http://apple.com/support/mainstage

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http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4027

MainStage 2.2.1 is a software update for MainStage 2.2. MainStage 2.2 is a feature upgrade for MainStage 1.0 and 2.0 customers available for purchase on the Mac App Store. MainStage 2.2 includes several new features and fixes.

Click to expand...

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5081

Last Modified: December 12, 2011

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MainStage 2.2 has been out for some time. I didn't even know about it until today. I am just a wee bit furious (that's an understatement) that I paid twice as much as Logic and Mainstage are currently selling for (and even more for the previous versions of the software).

And now I'm being shafted for $30.

"It's only $30, you're a professional, you can afford it" I hear you say. That's not the point. The point is that Apple now believes it is OK to arbitrarily charge people whatever they want for minor updates, while irreparably leaving existing users in the dust in regards to bug fixes unless they pay up.

I am deeply concerned that this behaviour will spread to other applications as well. Minor updates are minor updates. You do not charge for them. Major updates are different, they denote a radically improved or stabilized product that is worth paying for.

Simply charging $30 for a paid upgrade because you don't feel like supporting software over Software Update is eyebrow raising to say the least. I see no other reason to explain this behaviour, especially considering that nothing of this sort has ever occurred pre-Mac App Store.

-SC

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I'm selling swist proof knickers for $29.98

ScottishCaptain said:

Apple is out of control.

Click to expand...

Didn't want to quote all of your post, but I totally agree with you mate. Avid has already made huge grounds in taking the video professionals from Apple (thanks to their infamous cockup of FCX), and we in the professional audio sector seem to be their next target.

Sadly, it seems Apple is letting them take us!

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jabbawok said:

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I'm selling swist proof knickers for $29.98

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I'll sell you the minor-updated App Store exclusive versions for £5.99 after you've bought your boxed copy

I'm in the same boat as ScottishCaptain. I bought the boxed version long before the App Store version was even available. I shouldn't have to pay for the same thing twice for the same machine in order to get minor fixes and stability improvements. I'll be happy to pay for a major release in the App Store when Logic goes to 10 and MainStage goes to 3, but this move is crapping on the one's who were first in line for Logic Studio. I'm just glad there are pirated copies in the wild. I won't feel one ounce of guilt for downloading a copy of something I already paid for once, but will no longer upgrade because I bought the pre-downloadable version.

Between this and the FCP X mess, Apple sure knows how to piss off the early adopters and supporters.

We could start a petition to get MainStage 2.2 (and obviously 2.2.1) released via software Update? Granted, it would piss on the people who bought it on the App Store though...

Has anybody called apple about this?

Maybe if they say they can't help just send an email over to Mr. Cook.

We could start a petition to get MainStage 2.2 (and obviously 2.2.1) released via software Update? Granted, it would piss on the people who bought it on the App Store though...

Click to expand...

Well then they should have complained rather then simply bending over.

I paid $500 for Logic 9. I was under the impression this came with the right to receive free updates until the next major version bump. I'll admit that Logic is hardly the most expensive thing I own (actually it's kinda low on the list)- but the fact is that I have never, ever seen a company pull what Apple is doing right now. Even Protools gets better support then Logic at this point.

I don't think I'm being an entitle-tard here (someone who believes they're entitled to every new major innovation until the end of time for free). I'm simply looking at the rest of the industry and Apple's previous behaviour, and none of it makes any logical sense whatsoever- apart from the undertones that suggest Apple is trying to push the Mac App Store so hard down our throats that they're willing to piss off what little professional user base they have left pulling shenanigans like this.

If there is a petition, I'll sign it in a heartbeat.

Between this and the FCP X mess, Apple sure knows how to piss off the early adopters and supporters.

Click to expand...

What is a real bummer is having to worry about the future of Logic, because I have no idea who's hands it is in or what they are doing to it. Without a road map or even a remote inkling of a vague suggestion as to what might come, it's rather unnerving to say the least. I can see why another company might be preferential over the silent treatment coming out of Cupertino, because at least then you have forewarning of what is about to hit.

If Logic X is like FCP X, then I could very well be hosed. With a rack full of Apogee gear, it could literally halve in value if everyone decides to collectively jump ship and flood the market with used gear that nobody else in particular wants.

It almost feels like the only thing I can do now to cover my ass is to pre-emptively be the first one off the plank and get a head start on switching everything over to a platform that isn't such a moving target. I don't care for yearly OS updates (hell, Apogee hasn't even coughed up working drivers for the 64 PCIe card in 10.7, let alone 10.8) because I know they're going to be disruptive as hell. I could care less for the Mac App Store. Sandboxing seems more disruptive to program features then it actually does good in securing your system, and Gatekeeper seems totally unnecessary (both IMHO seem more about control anyways).

I don't know anymore. I used to think I did, but apparently I don't.

-SC

In my opinion the writing is on the wall, but it's up to the Apple customer to read it.

Apple is focused on the iOS customer, iOS devices, iCloud, and the App store, and will go further down that road once the Apple TV set is released.

Apple doesn't want or need the Pro market any longer as there is vastly more profit to be made from selling iDevices to the masses. So Apple is just phasing out Pro Apps, and makes you pay for those bug fixes in MainStage 2.2, that you can ONLY buy via the App Store, thereby training YOU to get used to using the App Store... see?

We'll be lucky to see one more generation of the Mac Pro, then goodbye MP, and pro users will be forced to use an iMac, iBook Pro(?) or iSomething or maybe even PC hardware from other vendors, and unless it an iOS app, then software too.

Lion is looking more like iOS for a REASON. It's to get consumers used to that operating system so when it comes time to buy new hardware there won't be a disconnect between OSX and iOS. Mac OSX has a limited shelf life now. The reason is Apple Mac OSX can be run on Hackintosh machine, whereas the iOS user isn't going to bother to try and run iOS on anything else.

iOS, iDevices, iCloud and the App Store is the new Apple ecosystem.

It's no longer called Apple Computer, it's called Apple Inc. The Computer is gone, we haven't realized it yet, but Apple does.

Most Logic users already had fumed over this (see the Logic Pro Help Forum, great site btw) when 2.2 hit the App Store and there was no boxed copy upgrade option through Software Update. Worse for 2.2 was terrible performance issues; many who bought the App Store version ended up downgrading back to 2.1.3. 2.2.1 is supposed to fix the performance issues, but I remain skeptical.

If they start doing Logic 9 upgrades only through the App Store, then I will be really pissed. But for now, eh. I don't use MainStage that much anyway. You're better off going the Ableton Live route if you want a setup for live tweaking.

Agreed this is really annoying - but it looks like you just got caught in the middle of a format change. Apple is buying into the "paid maintenance" business model and going to force everyone to play along.

I remember when apple released logic for $500 with all the plugins, and we were all amazed at how cheap it was, literally half the price of DP + equivalent plugins, god forbid protools. Now logic is $200 with largely the same feature set. Kinda hard to complain. The biggest problem is if they stop supporting it -

My advice if at all possible is to find a DAW with the features you need that works, and only upgrade when you absolutely HAVE to. I'm still using DP6 - they just released DP8 and I have no intention of paying for the upgrade. I'm at least two versions behind on almost all of the software I use. Soon I'll switch to lion, but I'm putting it off since I'll also have to upgrade all of my rosetta apps, and my version of office and photoshop are a decade old.

30 bucks is fair for MainStage 2.2 and above

Logic STUDIO as we know it has been unbundled.

MainStage 2.2 is a paid upgrade, not update. Justification for 2.2 being a paid upgrade lies in the fact that it now supports multiple cores, which it didn't used to. There are some other significant upgrade points, such as mapping MIDI controls *without* having to link this to screen controls.

Now, don't get me wrong, v2.2 caused me some MAJOR headaches, as my approach for large concerts using Omnisphere and Kontakt had to be rethought, that bug that they mention as to hanging at MIDI setup happened to me, and... I think folks still on the v2.1.whatever versions deserve a fix for the sustain pedal but on EVB3 that Apple introduced, and then fixed on Logic Pro, but *not* MainStage...

I'm glad to see that MainStage now has to support itself as opposed to being the forgotten live package included with Logic Studio... in my mind, there's still nothing like it out there (I'm a player, but my 20-space rack doesn't fit in my car...).

Emailed Tim, linked to this thread within it... worth a shot

ive been in pro audio since 94. Ive used Logic since 95. I have never ever met anyone who uses mainstage. Why does it even still exist? People who perform use LiVE.

ScottishCaptain said:

Let me guess, when Logic 9.2 hits, I'll have to pay another TWO HUNDRED ($200) dollars just to get THAT upgrade as well?

Click to expand...

While I agree with the rest of your post, that it stinks that people who got Mainstage in the $500 logic box have to pay to get these new versions, it looks like in this case it's a one time purchase to switch over to the MAS version. After that, upgrades should be free until the next major version, probably 3.0 in the case of Mainstage.

Logic 8 and 9 were paid upgrades but all the 9.0.x and 9.1.x updates (and there have been many of them including the addition of 64 bit support) were free downloads (and continue to be even after Logic is in the MAS). Anything is possible but I doubt Apple is going to start charging for minor updates to Logic, most likely paid at 10 and 11 with free updates in between.

I also think all the FUD about Logic 10 going the way of FCX is way overblown as well, it's a totally different app created by a totally different team (reportedly most of the Logic team is still the original Emagic guys and mostly still based in Germany).

SvK said:

ive been in pro audio since 94. Ive used Logic since 95. I have never ever met anyone who uses mainstage. Why does it even still exist? People who perform use LiVE.

Click to expand...

Because there are people in the world you haven't met that do use it.

milo said:

Because there are people in the world you haven't met that do use it.

Click to expand...

That explains why this thread boasts a whopping 18 comments.

ScottishCaptain said:

Whoa whoa whoa.

What the hell is this?

MainStage "2.2" is a PAID UPGRADE for users who spent $500 for the boxed copy?

Seriously?

FIVE HUNDRED dollars, and because there's no easy way to upgrade stuff that wasn't purchased through the App Store (that is, Apple is too lazy to implement a system where you can buy the MAS version of an app for free if you already own it externally)- I have to pay another $30 for something I ALREADY OWN just to get a minor version bump, and other critical bug fixes?

Let me guess, when Logic 9.2 hits, I'll have to pay another TWO HUNDRED ($200) dollars just to get THAT upgrade as well?

I really don't mind paying for major updates. Truly I don't. Logic 7, Logic 8, Logic 9. Bought them all.

However, if Apple is going to nail me $30 (for Mainstage, or even $200 for Logic Pro) for MINOR upgrades that fix CRITICAL bugs, then **** this ****. This platform is dead. I don't have time for this crap, I bought into Apple because the platform was stable and reliable. I don't give a flying **** about the Mac App Store, but apparently Apple does enough to try and penny/nickel me to death all because they don't give a **** about the users who paid for the boxed version of their software, and offer no suitable upgrade path to the MAS versions.

This is out of control. Apple is out of control.

How is anyone supposed to invest in a platform that treats it's users like this? I know the idiot masses will, because they don't know any better. But what about professionals? Oh, right, I'm sure Apple is going to take care of us with Logic 10, and by that, I mean they'll just target youtubers who think it's hilarious to re-live that scene from Freddy got Fingered ("Daddy want a sausage?") on their $50 M-Audio keyboards.

-SC

Click to expand...

So. Much. Angst.

You bought into this platform at the $500 level, and when they lower the buy-in price to the old upgrade prince range, you have a cow about having MainStage be spun off as a separate $30 App Store product (that most Logic owners never use)? Your rant seems completely out of proportion to the problem.

OBTW, Garageband is already a great platform for "youtubers ... on their $50 M-Audio keyboards". Though I have to ask: Is it tough to be born into such greatness, but have to live in this world full of amateurs?

Seems unnecessarily antagonistic to loyal and valuable customers. Is the potential loss of good will really worth the $30 per user? Really?

Maybe Apple really needs the money.

Ok ok, but seriously......












Where is Logic Pro X?

Icaras said:

Where is Logic Pro X?

Click to expand...

At this point I assume they'll skip over Lion and focus on making Logic 10 compatible/optimized for ML. Maybe a fall release although even later wouldn't surprise me.

Also, now that Mainstage can use all cores, how about an update to Logic letting it do the same while tracking instead of putting all armed tracks/instruments on one core? Definitely one of the biggest shortcomings of Logic right now.

SvK said:

ive been in pro audio since 94. Ive used Logic since 95. I have never ever met anyone who uses mainstage. Why does it even still exist? People who perform use LiVE.

Click to expand...

There are mainstage users out there. Appreciate live, really, there's a lot it does well, but IMHO, mainstage is stronger precisely where live is a bit weaker and mainstage still just sucks for tempo-based fragments.

From a player's point of view, ie folks who would otherwise bring hw pianos, organs and synths, not so much, and I wish I had a better name for this, but DJs or folks that start from "phrases", mainstage works really well.

Live really is amazing for what it is though, total respect for that "canvas"!

Don't forget that logic's native plugins aren't available in live... It's been probably six months since I last looked, but is Live 64-bit yet? I would need that... Just sayin...

I paid $500.00 for Logic 9 / As a music professional - I'm not upset at Apple.
I also paid full price for PT10, and DP7 .... Its an investment in tools for my trade.

It was rather clear that Soundtrack Pro was headed to the morgue, Waveburner's going bye bye and will be incorporated into Logic 10. - And that Mainstage was being split out as well - All this was out there on the streets in September.
It was also well stated by many that Apple was doing away the boxed products - Logic was the real holdout. When Apple moved Logic to the AppStore - again they made it clear that Mainstage was being broken out -
and being sold separately....

Certainly Logic9 and MS users had a much easier road paying $30 for the new MS updated version - Avid royally screwed many/most of their "pro" users with upgrade prices ranging from $200-$5000 / to get out of outdated HD hardware and into PT10 and subsequent PT11/64bit -

The release of Logic 9 on the app store and the subsequent removal of Soundtrack Pro and Waveburner - along with the split of MainStage signifies that Apple is streamlining, pushing forward and getting ready (very quickly, I'll add) for Logic Pro 10.

Apple dropping the price to$199.. - simply a business move - they've gained thousands of users - who in tears and with maxed out credit cards - couldn't pay Avid's upgrade path... to get to 10, and 11... and etc. / There were major out lashes at AVID in Oct and Nov of 2011. - Apple sat back - waited - and then dropped the price to $199.00 / Basically making it a no brainer buy - the user base has grown drastically in the last three months -

Re the comment regarding - "who's hands are in the making of the new Logic.."
The Emagic/Logic team at Apple Gmbh have their hands on it - Cupertino does little more than sign off on it.
They are alive and very well... Gerhard's in CA and he gave Steve his garageband... Logic IS NOT dumbed down - Matter of fact - 10 will blow your mind - and certainly have the Avid boys hiding behind their outdated HD rigs... I believe that Logic Pro 10 is the release that will put Apple in the driver's seat.

I think March is gonna be a good month.... LP10 will not have a 32 bridge - 64bit only. Waves is moving 64bit this month with V9 - Get ready ...