Apple should drop the disc drives. Steve would have.
Steve only did it on a machine designed to be ultra-mobile. The current Mac mini's were after his rule as active CEO. Even beside that, it was done on the Mac mini to allow dual-drive systems and/or the discrete GPU on the high-end. The only reason why it was necessary was that Apple wanted the Mac mini to stay mini, which it doesn't at all (and never has) need(ed) to. Plus, otherwise removing the disc drive from a desktop solely for the sake of doing it is stupid.
I like my Macbook Pro. But I sold my 2011 iMac and built my own PC with the money I got from it. It is a lot more powerful, and upgradeable, as desktop computers should be. I feel like the iMac is a large notebook, and will continue that way. Before all the haters vote this down, think about this in regards to the iMac: The hard drive is not user replaceable, and besides the RAM, nothing is replaceable or upgradeable. So, here is my huge "no thanks" to Apple and the iMac.
I used to only have an iMac. Said iMac was my centralized machine where all of my documents lived and where I did what little gaming I do (and what little gaming could be done on a Mac), my video editing, where all of my e-mail, pictures, calendars live, etc. Then I got a MacBook for mobility. It couldn't do a fraction of what the iMac could do due to lack of hard drive space and lack of a discrete GPU, but it could play WarCraft III, it could run Mail and Safari, so I was fine. Now, having replaced both computers, I'm in the process of setting up a PC that I built that does all of my gaming and my Windows needs and better than could've ever been done on an iMac (even with Boot Camp) and soon I'll have a MacBook Pro, which will be better for all non-gaming/non-Windows-only tasks than either my iMac or my MacBook ever was, and for the storage difference on the MacBook Pro, I have a NAS. So yeah, long story short, I very much agree with your assertions and think that your set-up is better than using an iMac anywhere in the equation. Lack of speed, lack of expandability, lack of upgradability (which is important when one finally runs out of disk space), heating problems, all of that adds up to a big steaming pile of no thanks.
A quick look at the back of an iMac disproves this:
Image
Your argument is irrelevant to the point you are arguing against. Upgradabilility and/or serviceability != Connectivity. Please revise.
1 screen size 27", SSD drive, no optical. Existing 21.5" model to sell alongside the new iMac for $999. Thunderbolt accessories for edge cases like optical drive, larger disk based storage, PCI chassis, etc
1. Removing the optical drive on a desktop for no practical reason is absurd, even in 2012.
2. Any benefit to "for $999" is lost by "Thunderbolt accessories for..."
3. Most users of 27" iMacs need more storage than an SSD allows. For a dual-drive set-up, SSDs are rad. But as the only drive, even on a 27" iMac that's needlessly limiting.
It's 2012, we don't need ODD anymore. They take up too much room and no one needs them. You can easily get a flash drive that has far more storage. The room the ODD takes up could be used in far better ways. Another fan to keep the iMac cooler, more USB ports, etc.
Everyone seems to be wanting a redesign. It'd be cool, but honestly, i'd rather have a 30" replace the current 27" model instead.
It's a desktop! If you're thinking about removing the optical drive to save space, then you're doing it wrong!
PC windows is a piece of %$#@
Even as an Apple fanboy, I have to disagree. Furthermore, it's assertions like that one that make PC vs. Mac arguments entirely stupid.
Is this true? Have they usually done hardware bumps around the time of a financial call? I am really hoping the new 15" MBP comes out this month.
No, there is seldom any coincidence there. That dude doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, MacBook Pros are on 8-10 month cycles. We're on month 6 at the moment, we'll be on month 7 at the end of the month. There's still time yet.
The Mac mini is a desktop as well and it no longer has an optical drive. Apple is always ahead of the curve when it comes to jettisoning dying technology. I dont think the OD survives past 2012, but certainly by EOY 2013 you wont be able to buy a Mac with a built in optical drive.
You're saying that optical disc won't survive past 2012. Given Blu-Ray's existence and the fact that all of my movies are now coming on it, I'd say you're assertion is ridiculous. Even then, given that some Mac software titles still only ship on optical disc, and given that optical disc is still a much faster way to get software installed than downloading via the Internet, your anti-ODD statements are similarly ridiculous. The Mac mini is a low-end desktop. Incidentally, while the use of the optical disc is waning, it's most waning on LOWER-END CUSTOMERS (hence the Mac mini and MacBook Air, Apple's two low-end machines), while high-end customers still value it. In any case, the Mac mini is smaller than is practical, same with the iMac. These are desktops; no reason they have to be small or lack expandability. This is what we have things like the MacBook Air for.
Why in the world would you upgrade a computer? I have owned numerous PCs and Macs and never in my life have I upgraded a computer (other than adding RAM). People love to tout the "upgradability" of PCs, but in reality, by the time you want to upgrade the video card (or some other component other than RAM), you really need a new motherboard, but then you need new faster RAM to take advantage of it, oh and while you're at it, you may as well get the new processor, and, and...oh, you just bought a new computer.
It's always better to just buy the new model and get ALL the technology improvements at once. Considering the high resale value of Macs, its cost effective too.
This is a valid argument until you factor in things like hard drives, which get filled up. You can't easily replace a hard drive on an iMac and haven't been able to since October 2005. My last iMac had a 500GB hard drive in it. When that filled up, I either had to offload things (which sucks if you don't have any means of redundancy for whatever external storage you might have) or get a new iMac. This is inexcusable for a desktop. Hell, even the MacBook Pro gives you easy access to its hard drive. Nowadays you can't replace the hard drive in an iMac even if you wanted to and could. I can make the same argument about video cards (though obviously storage space isn't an issue on a video card, nor can you upgrade one on your MacBook Pro, but you still get the idea). As a desktop, it's just really stupid and impractical.
As a former iMac user, I agree. I may have had a lemon but my iMac was a big time heat magnet. Over time, it gathered so much dust inside that the logic board began to fail, with symptoms like graphic glitches and random freeze or kernel panic.
I would much prefer Mac mini to take over the role of iMac (which may require mini to become larger again).
The Mac mini is a weak machine in terms of muscle. That said, the Mac mini in my signature (which I'm using as an interim machine before I sell it and get a 15" MacBook Pro), even with a shared-memory GPU outperforms my Early 2006 20" iMac. If you have an old enough iMac, eventually a Mac mini will be an upgrade to it in every possible way.
I'd happily lose the internal optical drive in favor of standard SSD+HDD combo across the board for the iMacs. I'd be losing a feature I barely ever use in favor of a phenomenal speed boost.
Again, the optical drive doesn't prevent a phenomenal speed boost. Especially on an iMac. The machine should be thicker. It's a desktop! The two aren't mutually exclusive. Plus, you can get an SSD+HDD+ODD configuration TODAY! It's not like this sort of thing isn't doable right now sans the need to mod anything.
Doesn't matter on desktops, matters on laptops.
Shouldn't matter on laptops either unless they're ultrabooks. The MacBook Pros as they stand now are plenty fast, plenty capable, plenty thin and the optical drive doesn't make the difference there where most firmly believe it does.
The iMac has a lot the Mac Pro does not have.
Better cost. (by a big margin)
Comes with screen. (And that screen is beautiful)
Easy as pie to set up.
Smaller physical footprint. (Nice for smaller desks)
Uses less power to run.
Easier to transport (less weight and smaller physical footprint.
For some tasks some of the high end iMacs are better then Mac Pros.
And more.
And also it does 99% of what most people want to do with them. A lot of small and mid sized businesses that use Mac are moving to the iMac. And I think it's all good.
Yes nothing is really replaceable in the iMac. But you shouldn't need to replace anything for 5-ish years. My personal iMac upgrade cycle is roughly 6 years. It's a little long in the tooth by then. So that's 2k (Australian) (I chose the 21.5 with the i7 upgrade) over 6 years or roughly $0.91 a day for ownership. (without power and the like.) 91¢ is pretty good.
For me the cheapest Mac Pro + Apple screen (and yes I would want the amazing Apple screen) is $4198 or $1.91 a day over the same 6 year period. And that's without any upgrades to the Mac Pro.
That's a big difference in cost for little to no noticeable speed improvement for what I want it to do. That's without the extra power (which is not free) the Mac Pro + Apple display uses.
I've only ever used all in one computers. And I'm so glad I did.
Good for you. When my internal hard drive in my iMac fills up, you can replace it for me. And when my screen has yellowing or when my video card becomes insufficient, you can do the upgrades because clearly All-in-ones are the best computers out there! And the overheating issues due to such a thin enclosure, and the inability to use aftermarket hard drives, you've got my back on that too! Man, you need to seriously re-evaluate your logic, because I think I've poked quite a lot of holes in it.
I am waiting for a 13" model that has everything it needs to be my main/only Mac. Screen must be retina like, ca. 1Tera ssd, no odd. Processor Speed/ram is a minor issue for me. But Would be great if graphics are good enough to play some games from time to time.
Apple is not yet there, but I hope soon... So long I am happy with my Mbp 13" mid 2009.
Apple won't be there soon. That's a machine that won't ever exist.
You and half of the companies you go to need to get dropbox. It's 2012. Also, you can buy an external superdrive.
External superdrives are incovenient. Also dropbox only provides 2GB (unless you're telling me that I should shell out money per month, in which case, no sir), whereas DVDs still provide 4.7-8.5GB of space. Yeah, I think DVDs win here. It's called the future for a reason (that reason being that it hasn't happened yet).
I bought 4 iMacs right after the Intel switch- 2 of them failed in the first year, the third a year after.
Currently I'm using the the last surviving iMac at home, built from components of all four machines (I had a fried logic board, vertical line displays, not workin ODDs and so on). Now that the 4th iMac is dying it's long vertical lines display death (currently 16 lines of pleasure running down the display) mI can promise you:
I will never buy an AIO again. I could still use two other computers, if I hooked them up to an external display. I'm on the verge of buying a mini instead, but also think about a Alienware X51, as it offers BluRay
All-in-ones are the worst of both worlds. You save desk space at the expense of practicality, usefulness, reliability, expandability/upgradability, and not to mention bang-for-buck. No thanks, I'll stick to my MacBook Pro and my home-built PC tower.
Not entirely true. The Dell and HP all in ones have access panels to easily replace the hard drive, disc drive and RAM. With the iMac the only thing easily accessible that won't scare most people away is the RAM. That being said do the Dell or HP look as good as the iMac? No IMO, but what they did with the pin connector on the iMac and the proprietary firmware on the hard drive sort of sucks.
I don't buy my computer because it "looks good". I buy it because it is a tool that I can employ to do my bidding. The iMac is spectacular looking, but is not as useful or as practical as other desktops (PC or Mac), let alone other Macs. MacBook Pros look good too, but for their class of machine, they're also practical. iMacs, neither practical nor sensible, let alone not as upgradable as said HP and Dell all-in-ones. What they did with the hard drive connector was an insult to an already grievous injury. As a former iMac owner, I won't be one ever again. After this Mac mini is replaced with a 15" MacBook Pro, I'm sticking to MacBook Pros for laptops and custom-built PC towers for my desktops. Simple as that.
They do, It's called a Mac Mini.
I'm a little surprised you haven't heard of it.
Much like your commentary here, the Mac minis leave much to be desired.
I have to say I think HP outdid Apple with that HPZ1 all-in-one design.
http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z1_features.html#.T4BqpNlwlBk
THAT is what the iMAC needs to be...with the ability to swap out drives, memory and the graphics card
Thumbs up HP...you actually make the iMac and Apple look behind with this design.
If they're going to get rid of the Mac Pro, they should at least merge the iMac (or at least the 27" model) with the Mac Pro to make a machine much like this. I've seen the Z1 before and even as someone who vehemently hates HP's computer line, I'm very much impressed and think that if they can do THAT well, Apple can surely do better, or at least do similar.
For comparison purposes, the Mac Mini is more of a headless MacBook Pro. It matches up very closely to it, and not so much the iMac.
But I did like your response anyway
It's a headless low-end 13" MacBook Pro at its low-end and it's somewhere in-between a high-end 13" MacBook Pro and a low-end 15" MacBook Pro at its high-end. Kind of weaksauce if you want a machine with umph. Though if your only graphical requirement is !IGP, then a high-end mini with the Core i7 upgrade and the 256GB SSD+750GB HDD combo is a pretty decent machine. I had my stepfather customize and buy such a machine and it's pretty sweet. Not my cup of tea given that I'd like to be more mobile and do more graphically, but otherwise, it's great.
Yes, they are going to sell another ugly PC with better specs. They will definitely outsell Apple. Wait...
Pretty isn't everything. Unless money is no object and you are superficial.
I hope this rumor is wrong, I'm up in the air over the iMac or MBP. So hopefully they go with the AR glass and maybe it's a nice update with other goodies. I would kinda like to see a 24 inch version the 27 is just a little to big for my needs, but I really need thunderbolt, so either way I'm getting a new mac and will wait.
You should wait before either update as they will both probably come out at around the same time, if not the same time. I'd go MacBook Pro over iMac any day. You can access more on an MBP (and replace the hard drive when you need more internal storage than it will allow [something you can't do on the iMac]). You won't have a lot of the heating and reliability problems that iMacs tend to have. It's win all around because the MacBook Pro is a much better machine.
Theres no need for you to live up to the stereotype of mac users being condescending.
Secondly, Mac Minis suck. I thought it would have been obvious why people would want a headless iMac; to be able to upgrade any and/or all parts at will and have a computer that DOESNT perform like a Mac Mini.
It would be great, though they might need to rethink their entire desktop product line marketing, which is already on the decline as it stands.
With the removal of the ODD, you are getting either
1) More SSD or HD space
2) Better Graphics Card
3) Slimmer factor
4) All the above
I'll take all 3 for the same price point.
The ODD doesn't prevent any of those things. Not on the MacBook Pro, not on the iMac. Both machines are plenty slim. The iMac is TOO slim for the parts that are already inside of it for heating reasons, optical disc drive being the least offensive of them all. If you remove the ODD, then instead of a 3.5" and a 2.5" drive at maximum, you have a 3.5" and two 2.5" drives, and I'm sure more people want an iMac with an ODD than an iMac with three drives. Really, if we're talking about how to cram more into the iMac, the logic of removing things from it is counter-intuitive, illogical, stupid, and just plain wrong. It's a desktop. I am to do lots of things with it and it is to have a lot more inside of itself than a laptop. The idea shouldn't be to remove features to maintain a sleek slim profile for no reason other than to look cool. I'm sorry, that's just stupid. And this is coming from a long-time Apple Fanboy, two-time iMac owner. I know what the **** I'm talking about.
intel core duo
