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Ban on Push iCloud Email Upheld in Germany as Fight over 3G Devices Continues

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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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Back in February, Apple announced that it was suspending push functionality for iCloud and MobileMe email users in Germany following a victory by Motorola Mobility in a patent lawsuit. As noted by Dow Jones Newswires, an appeals court has upheld that ruling, requiring that Apple continue to refrain from offering push email in the country and that the company pay unspecified damages to Motorola.
The Mannheim regional court backed an earlier court decision that banned Apple from offering the service for synchronizing emails on devices in a patent proceeding brought by Motorola Mobility.

The court said Apple must pay damages to Motorola Mobility, but didn't specify the amount.
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FOSS Patents notes that the decision is not unexpected given the history of the case, which has seen several previous decisions as the claims against Apple itself and its Irish subsidiary Apple Sales International were split and adjudicated separately.

The report also notes that Motorola continues to push for a ban on 3G-enabled Apple products in Germany. Under an earlier ruling, Apple was forced to briefly pull all 3G-capable products with the exception of the iPhone 4S from its German online store, although they were restored a few hours later and a follow-up decision a few weeks later offered Apple extended protection from enforcement of a ban while it appeals the original decision.

Motorola is currently the subject of an antitrust investigation by the European Commission over its use of the standard-essential patent in question in attempting to bar sales of Apple's products. But the company continues to press forward with its claims that Apple's licensing offers have not been adequate and its efforts to have Apple's products barred from sale over the issue.

Article Link: Ban on Push iCloud Email Upheld in Germany as Fight over 3G Devices Continues
 
Article Link
https://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/13/ban-on-push-icloud-email-upheld-in-germany-as-fight-over-3g-devices-continues/
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cameronjpu

macrumors 65816
Aug 24, 2007
1,367
78
So Mueller is downplaying the negative news here? What a surprise.

Here's a tip - if the only people you get news from are biased for your side, you're never going to get the whole story.
 
0815

0815

macrumors 68000
Jul 9, 2010
1,793
1,065
here and there but not over there
Squashy said:
I'd hate Motorola right now if I was a German iOS user.
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I am not a big fan of Motorola and their copy cat approach and I am the last one to defend them.

However, without knowing the exact details of the patents, it seems that in this case Apple is the one at fault and who should be hated for either not paying the license fee or coming up with their own variation of the same feature.
 
yetanotherdave

yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,768
12
Bristol, England
So I imagine all german users who want push use a gmail/exchange solution instead then.

Apple wil win some of these fights, apple will lose others. Only the consumers really lose as functionality is removed.
 
B

Boisv

macrumors regular
Feb 2, 2012
235
4
I really don't mind all of these copyright lawsuits. I understand the need for these companies to protect their patents and their intellectual properties. Apple feels that they need to try and prevent a repeat of what happened in the 80s with the rise of Windows, and I get that.

But when it starts to have an immediate negative impact on customers, when they are deprived of services, that really sucks. This is getting a little nuts, and if I was an iOS customer in Germany I'd be pissed.
 
I

iRCL

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2011
284
0
Can't wait to see how many people in this thread complain about the iOS devices being restricted, and to see if those are the same people that were cheering when Apple was applying restrictions on Galaxy tab sales in AUS

As stated in other threads, NO consumers win when this happens, period
 
pgwalsh

pgwalsh

macrumors 68000
Jun 21, 2002
1,639
218
New Zealand
I don't hate motorola, android or apple. I hate these silly technology patents. Too many and none unique. Imagine the barrier this puts on any small company wanting to enter the market. This is what stifles innovation.
 
S

sampdoria

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2010
136
0
yetanotherdave said:
So I imagine all german users who want push use a gmail/exchange solution instead then.

Apple wil win some of these fights, apple will lose others. Only the consumers really lose as functionality is removed.
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...but it's a win-win for the lawyers on either side, isn't it? (What a waste.)
 
X

xVeinx

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2006
361
0
California
Any company that has the opportunity to license patents with Apple is going to want big money, because they know that Apple have it. Part of the reason is to slow Apple down in the competitive arena, and the other is to bolster the coffers of the companies in question. Motorola is not in good financial territory, and Google will have to heavily invest in it to help it back towards profitability. Motorola had less to lose by forcing a settlement and payout on Apple than in the cost of the suits, etc. If the EU decides that Motorola is abusing it's patents, that could dampen their future a bit, and include a large payout to the EU; on the other hand, it's a risk worth taking if it means $$ in the near term and possible settlement with the EU some years down the road.
 
S

shaunp

Cancelled
Nov 5, 2010
1,811
1,395
Patent Wars... Blah, Blah, Blah....

There is more news these days about patent infringement than there is about new products.

This applies to two patents: -

- 6,395,898 - filed August 28 1998, live March 19 2002
- 5,754,119 - filed August 31 1995, live May 19 1998

WTF!!! Motorola are you serious! You had this stuff for over 10 years and you've done nothing with it, or at least nothing that anyone knows about.

This is a classic example of why patents need a shelf life. If you've done nothing with it in say 2-3 years then you loose it. If you've done something with it, then you loose it after 4-5 years for example. This would encourage tech firms to firstly not hoard stuff and secondly invent new stuff as their competitors will be allowed to use these concepts after a certain amount of time.

I'm talking about concepts here not an actual product design, neither of these patents is an actual complete product. This is different from copying a design so your product appears to be identical to your competitors - severe penalties should exist for doing this. But protecting a concept indefinitely? No way. This is not a pro-Apple stance, it's my point of view the patent laws are out of date with the rate of change we have today.
 
L

LaWally

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2012
530
1
In the drug business, patents give drug companies exclusive rights for 20 years, but their effective length is usually 7-12 years as they start before clinical trials and not after FDA approval.

Something similar, but more aggressive for tech industry patents is an interesting idea.
 
D

DeathChill

macrumors 68000
Jul 15, 2005
1,663
90
Tarzanman said:
Blame Apple. They picked this fight.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Motorola sue Apple first? How did Apple pick that fight?

I find it funny that in the first couple of years after the initial iPhone release Apple became the most sued company in mobile, yet I never saw anyone that says these sort of comments shedding a tear for Apple then.
 
E

EssentialParado

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2005
1,162
48
macmastersam said:
why Germany and not any other country?
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This is an issue over a FRAND patent, which is something essential to the industry and is required by law to be licensed to competitors under fair and reasonable terms. Most courts will not ban products that use FRAND technology. German courts, however, will. Which is why Motorola filed the suit there.

Motorola are asking competitors (in this case Apple, in other cases Microsoft) to pay substantially larger royalties than is usual under FRAND patent law (sometimes 500-1000 times higher). This is why the EU (which includes Germany) have launched an investigation into Motorola. The German courts didn't appear to take this investigation into consideration with their decision.
 
Nungster

Nungster

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2011
189
11
EssentialParado said:
This is an issue over a FRAND patent, which is something essential to the industry and is required by law to be licensed to competitors under fair and reasonable terms. Most courts will not ban products that use FRAND technology. German courts, however, will. Which is why Motorola filed the suit there.

Motorola are asking competitors (in this case Apple, in other cases Microsoft) to pay substantially larger royalties than is usual under FRAND patent law (sometimes 500-1000 times higher). This is why the EU (which includes Germany) have launched an investigation into Motorola. The German courts didn't appear to take this investigation into consideration with their decision.
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Yes this is more of a FRAND issue, and I can't wait to see how Motorola pushes this win onto other manufacturers.
 
U

unlinked

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
698
1,217
Ireland
EssentialParado said:
This is an issue over a FRAND patent, which is something essential to the industry and is required by law to be licensed to competitors under fair and reasonable terms. Most courts will not ban products that use FRAND technology. German courts, however, will. Which is why Motorola filed the suit there.
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All these patents fights happen in a bigger context of trench warfare between various tech companies but email push itself is not frand related afaik.
 
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