Desktop Ivy Bridge not worth waiting for?

Logos327 said:

The 2011 iMac will theoretically lose support one year earlier than the 2012 iMac. Thus, if you wait ~ a month, you will gain a year worth of support for no extra cost.

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This is the best reason I have head thus far for waiting. But it only applies if you keep your machines for multiple years / past depreciation dates.

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RobinHood5 said:

If the iMac is going to have a silent refresh it's most likely going to be in the next week or two and just POP up on the store.

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Respect your decision to wait (some have been waiting since October, ask them if it's been worth it). But one thing to note, Apple doesn't do quiet. Last year's 'quiet' MBP refresh told us this may be the last laptop we ever need!

NextGenApple said:

Point is you said hasten the eclipse of firewire, and render Thunderbolt all-but irrelevant My point is if Apple introduced/adopted light peak Aka thunderbolt why would they adopt something that could kill it? They could look at it like the iMacs are for high end users so keep USB to so if you want faster transfers you will need thunderbolt.

Don't be surprised if you see intel HD graphics on the base model also. No need to down vote me cos you don't agree. Cos I know it was you.

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Haha, it wasn't me who voted you down.

I am not sure you understood my argument. I am saying that USB 3.0 does not render Thunderbolt useless except in the area of external storage (only because the price of TB is not worth the small improvement you get in speed when it concerns storage and application access rates). Firewire will be made obsolete as TB becomes more accepted.

Thunderbolt will be used for things that do take advantage of 2-channel 10gb/s peripherals such as multiple high-res displays, external PCI express cards, transferring of HD video from camcorders.

Also, you are suggesting two contradictory arguments. Either the iMac is a pro machine and Apple forces you to use TB (which isn't necessarily true) or it is a consumer machine and uses solely integrated graphics. Which one do you think it is?

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Confuzzzed said:

This is the best reason I have head thus far for waiting. But it only applies if you keep your machines for multiple years / past depreciation dates.

Respect your decision to wait (some have been waiting since October, ask them if it's been worth it). But one thing to note, Apple doesn't do quiet. Last year's 'quiet' MBP refresh told us this may be the last laptop we ever need!

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1) Definitely true. That argument is more for people who are looking at investing in high end machines that will easily last for 6 years. Not as applicable if you are buying the low-end iMac that will more likely be replaced before loss of support.

2) I have actually been waiting since August technically, at least, that is when I had the money to buy an upper-end 27". It was finically smart/advantages for me to wait until January, and, at that point (and even now) I felt it was smart to wait.

Usb 3.0

More importantly, apple seems to drop support every 4 years. Its better to wait plus the SSD prices will go down a little too.

NextGenApple said:

Point is you said hasten the eclipse of firewire, and render Thunderbolt all-but irrelevant My point is if Apple introduced/adopted light peak Aka thunderbolt why would they adopt something that could kill it? They could look at it like the iMacs are for high end users so keep USB to so if you want faster transfers you will need thunderbolt.

Don't be surprised if you see intel HD graphics on the base model also. No need to down vote me cos you don't agree. Cos I know it was you.

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Nonsense thunderbolt does not compete with USB 3!

USB 3 is way to slow for that. Intel supports both USB for Mouse/Keyboard external HDs and that kind of "slow" stuff.

And anything high speed, like External graphics/ Disk arrays and docking stations (like thunderbolt display) for Thunderbolt. There is no reason not to include USB 3 for apple, it doesn't cost apple anything to include it now. Apple doesn't make any external HD Thunderbolt drives so no loss there.
They can even sell some new usb 3 enabled thunderbolt displays

Logos327 said:

They didn't drop the numerical keypad. They gave you an option for wired with a numerical keypad or wireless without. If I remember correctly, they only recently (2011, 2010?) made the wireless option standard.

You seem to insinuate that there is no way to get a wired keyboard in the store. Ignoring the question "what's so bad about ordering online," I find it hard to believe Apple stores 1) do not carry wired keyboards and 2) are unwilling to swap the wireless keyboard with a wired one. After all, they are willing to swap the magic mouse with the trackpad.

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I have no Apple store close to me; only a Best Buy. I am not sure if they would do that or not, but I have my doubts. I have just always purchased it separately. I know in 2009 the wireless was standard.

monkeybagel said:

I have no Apple store close to me; only a Best Buy. I am not sure if they would do that or not, but I have my doubts. I have just always purchased it separately. I know in 2009 the wireless was standard.

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If you buy though Apple's online store, you can swap out the keyboard for free, and also swap the Magic Mouse for the Magic Trackpad for free. In any other venue, you need to pay extra for the components you want and you have extra components you don't want.

salmoally said:

Seems like from the various hardware sites that ivy bridge for desktop seems to provide maybe 2-5% improvement. Obviously the improved integrated graphics don't really apply to desktops.

For laptops it seems like a good upgrade, around 15% better than SB, 50% better graphics and lower power consumption so battery life is improved.

Going by just the increase in processing power waiting for the ivy bridge imac would have been a waste of time. Lets hope they do a redesign and include some nice graphics card options instead!

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if one has no hurry and the time is 1-2 months, it's always worth to have the most fresh tech for the same price
ofcourse if i own a late 2011 device i wouldnt include myself in the waiting list
not because the 12' version is not special but because there is always a little upgrade from year to year in every product

New Apple said:

if one has no hurry and the time is 1-2 months, it's always worth to have the most fresh tech for the same price
ofcourse if i own a late 2011 device i wouldnt include myself in the waiting list
not because the 12' version is not special but because there is always a little upgrade from year to year in every product

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Looking back at April 4th or so when the Anti glare glass story came out and all the hype to ivy/ AMD release, well now those two products are out and that month has gone by fast. Heck, can't believe its May already. The wait is bogus and long with no real stories for iMac etc, but the clock really is ticking now. Any week now until June 11th, i still say May until a story or news proves otherwise but hang in there.

Things to consider in an upgraded iMac (for me), since once you get an iMac you're stuck with it. I'm just wondering out loud because I'm waiting for the damn new iMacs like everybody else.

- Matte screen. I don't care too much about the anti-reflective screen on a desktop computer since I can adjust the lighting in the room. Others might but I don't really. I care about it on a laptop though, where you're exposed to all kinds of different rooms and lighting.

- USB 3.0 is a significant upgrade because it opens up all of the new peripherals. For example external storage. USB 3.0 is a lot faster than FW-800 and available now for cheap. Thunderbolt is awesome but still too expensive. I do not want to get stuck with USB 2.0.

It's also built into the chipsets and doesn't add any additional cost. In fact it might not even be possible to get USB 2.0 anymore.

- Video card. Apple charges a lot for the premium card but if you can't upgrade you're kind of stuck. Still, a mid-level 2012 Mac will probably have equal to the 2011 high-end card at the same price.

- Newest Intel chips - not a big deal to me. This stopped mattering a while ago unless it's a video or audio workstation.

- Optical media? I doubt we'll ever see a blu-ray burner on a Mac but you can always get this external. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple drop DVD before anybody else like they did the floppy. I admit to being surprised when they did this but of course they were right.

I suspect what we'll see is more TV / home media in the new Macs and Mini's. But that's more of a software thing than a hardware thing.

Don't forget: the price of SSD storage has fallen steeply since May 2011, mostly thanks to the Thailand flooding putting HDDs out of commission and the SSD manufacturers ramping up to take advantage of the shortage. A significant part of why I didn't buy a 2011 iMac in January, when I was ready, rather than waiting until whenever (and I really didn't think it would be this damned long) is because $750 for a 256GB SSD is ridiculous and with the iMacs you want to do a CTO combo if you want both SSD and HDD to ensure you're getting perfect compatibility.

Heck, I may STILL buy the 2011 iMac AFTER the 2012 refresh, because the price of the previous model will plummet -- though it depends on what else they do with the new model (USB 3, display upgrades, and so on) that could be relevant for me. But one thing is clear: it's not worth buying an iMac right now, no matter what specs you need. Come on, Apple... would this week be too much to ask? Y U NO SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY??!

Battlefield Fan said:

Initial test show they run about 10 degrees c hotter. The smaller die size is the blame.

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Hotter doesn't necessary mean more heat though. Hotter means higher temperature, which means less ability to dissipate heat. But the amount of heat being produced might be less. Confusing? Perhaps, but not when you think about it.

Stand in front of a 2Kw fire and it's quite warm. Touch the tip of a 15w soldering iron its very very hot indeed and will burn you instantly. But that is only 0.7% of the heat output of the fire. I.e heat output and temperature are not directly related.

What matters is how much heat is being generated by the chip, and how easily that heat can be dissipated by the entire iMac system. The heat output is lower with Ivybridge, which is a good thing. Even though the chips themselves can run hotter.

Chippy99 said:

Hotter doesn't necessary mean more heat though. Hotter means higher temperature, which means less ability to dissipate heat. But the amount of heat being produced might be less. Confusing? Perhaps, but not when you think about it.

What matters is how much heat is being generated by the chip, and how easily that heat can be dissipated by the entire iMac system. The heat output is lower with Ivybridge, which is a good thing. Even though the chips themselves can run hotter.

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I've already posted on page 1, but let me reiterate that Ivy Bridge runs hotter only when over-clocked. It runs cooler than SB with stock settings. There are some people that confuse over-clocking with Turbo boost mode. These are not the same things. In simplest terms, over-clocking is something that you manually do in the BIOS and change the voltage and/or base frequency that the CPU runs at. It is not the same thing as Turbo boost where the CPU speeds up and slows down the cores as necessary.

Anandtech have posted a very informative article on the higher temperatures when over-clocking Ivy Bridge.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-overclocking-on-ivy-bridge

Mike Valmike said:

A significant part of why I didn't buy a 2011 iMac in January, when I was ready, rather than waiting until whenever (and I really didn't think it would be this damned long) is because $750 for a 256GB SSD is ridiculous and with the iMacs you want to do a CTO combo if you want both SSD and HDD to ensure you're getting perfect compatibility.

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Worse, as far as I know, Apple still uses the old SATA II Samsungs and Toshibas as the CTO SSD.

One of my hopes for the upgrade is that Apple do the "SSDs now 2x faster!" marketing blurbs that would indicate them using the excellent Samsung 830 as the SSD, then drop the price for the upgrade.

If they don't I'll almost certainly be buying through a local Mac reseller/service shop, so they can install a Mac supported third-party SSD for me.

I have a hard time believing Apple would wait to release in June unless they had to. Their competition has the new chips available right now.

And even though the price of SSD's have come down, I also have a hard time believing Apple won't change a premium for them. They charge as much as possible for everything.

InlawBiker said:

I have a hard time believing Apple would wait to release in June unless they had to. Their competition has the new chips available right now.

And even though the price of SSD's have come down, I also have a hard time believing Apple won't change a premium for them. They charge as much as possible for everything.

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The price they charge for SSD bothers me. If they charge that much, it should at least be a top of the line SSD. They charge a lot for RAM, but that doesn't bother me because I can buy my own and easily install it. They really should make the SSD a user-serviceable part.

Razorhog said:

The price they charge for SSD bothers me. If they charge that much, it should at least be a top of the line SSD. They charge a lot for RAM, but that doesn't bother me because I can buy my own and easily install it. They really should make the SSD a user-serviceable part.

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Yes, the prices of the hard drive updates keep me away from the iMac.

Getting really impatient, but worth the wait. I plan on getting the fully loaded 27", so it's more about upgraded options for me. Still running a first gen Mac Pro, so that shows how long I keep a machine for. My main reasons for waiting.

- Possibility of USB3

- Better Graphics card option

- Possibility of matte screen

- Larger SSD + HD option

- One more year before it becomes obsolete.

- Possibility of higher base RAM (which would be added to with third-party RAM)