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USB 3.0 Speed?

3

3drteest

macrumors newbie
Feb 29, 2008
21
8
Apple doesn't support USB3 devices

I've spent hours over the last few days working with Apple techs and we've come to the conclusion that although Apple has "USB3", it doesn't support most, if any, devices. Absolutely ridiculous. The devices will work, but only at USB2 speeds. Apple blames this on the device manufacturers for not upgrading their firmware to support Apple.
 
U

undies1993

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
842
6
Ann Arbor, Michigan
3drteest said:
I've spent hours over the last few days working with Apple techs and we've come to the conclusion that although Apple has "USB3", it doesn't support most, if any, devices. Absolutely ridiculous. The devices will work, but only at USB2 speeds. Apple blames this on the device manufacturers for not upgrading their firmware to support Apple.
Click to expand...

I know that it supports my USB 3.0 Flash Drive.
 
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undies1993

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
842
6
Ann Arbor, Michigan
John Kotches said:
if you don't get more than 60 mbytes per second of throughput you aren't seeing usb3 performance levels, which is what really matters.
Click to expand...

So this isn't USB 3.0 speed?
 

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S

scarred

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2011
516
1
waloshin said:
If the harddrive is slow USB 3.0 is not going to magically make it faster. 70 Mb/s sound about normal for any harddrive that is not ssd.
Click to expand...

70Mb/s would be quite slow and not normal. But I'm guessing you meant MB/s...
 
Mr. Retrofire

Mr. Retrofire

macrumors 603
Mar 2, 2010
5,064
518
www.emiliana.cl/en
John Kotches said:
if you don't get more than 60 mbytes per second of throughput you aren't seeing usb3 performance levels, which is what really matters.
Click to expand...
This is nonsense, because no USB 2.0 bus supports a real signaling rate of 480 MBit/s (60 MByte/s). The limit in the USB 2.0 standard for the maximum signaling rate is 480 MBit/s or 60 MByte/s. The real speed is in the range of ≈ 30 MByte/s (max.). Btw, the transfer rate depends also on the device/firmware/controller. Good examples are NEC and Oxford Semiconductor USB 2.0/USB 3.0 controllers.

Apples System Profiler and Apples USB debug tools tell you the real speed of the interface or device. Transfer rates are meaningless, because a cheap USB 3.0 device can have a transfer rate of 10 MByte/s or less.
 
theSeb

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,466
1,893
none
Benjamin said:
All 2012 MacBooks have USB 3.

On this page HERE Apple claim speeds of 5 GBPS on USB 3.
Click to expand...

I don't understand your contribution. USB 3 is capable of 5 gbps not (GB). There is a difference between gigabits and gigabytes.

Quoting the maximum speed of USB 3 is not really adding anything to this discussion. That's the speed that USB 3 CAN transfer at; it does not magically mean that every USB 3 device can achieve that. A 2.5" 7200 RPM hard drive can transfer data at around 110 MB/s. A USB 3 small capacity flash stick is a lot slower. USB 3 is capable of around 450 MB/s.

A transfer protocol is like a road. Just because a road is safe for 450 km/h, it does not mean that any Trabant can now all of a sudden do 450 km/h. It will still only be able to do its normal maximum speed.

----------
3drteest said:
Which drive are you using? That's the speed it's supposed to be.
Click to expand...

What do you mean "supposed to be"? There is no "supposed to be" for a USB 3 device. It depends on the device. If I put in a really fast SSD drive into a USB 3 enclosure, then I can get the top USB 3 speed (around 450 MB/s in sequential reads and writes). If I use a RAID 0 USB 3 enclosure with two 7200 RPM 3.5" drives, then I could get around 220 - 280 MB/s.

If I use a 2.5" 5400 RPM hard drive then it will do around 60 MB/s. And it does not matter if I put this drive into a thunderbolt or USB 3 or Firewire 800 or eSATA enclosure.

Edit: The figures above are averages and for illustration purposes only. Some drives are slower; some drives are faster. The performance of a USB 3 device is dependant on the speed of the device itself and the controller that it has implemented. For example some USB 3 external HDD enclosures are better than others, that's why they don't all cost the same.
 
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R

reemas

macrumors member
Jan 6, 2004
79
32
3drteest said:
Which drive are you using? That's the speed it's supposed to be.
Click to expand...

its a seagate drive, i believe the seagate expansion 3TB drive. 7200 RPM SATA drives with 3 1/TB platters. i got mine for about $125 from amazon 4 days ago. i think the apple tech supports are a bit right though, the firmware has to be recent to really achieve these speeds.
 
W

wiregen

macrumors member
Jun 10, 2004
64
7
Plugging in my 2TB Western Digital Passport using black magic's disk speed test I got 90mb/s right and 95mb/s read. This is correct, USB 3 is delivering the speeds but remember the drive is now the bottle neck.
Most mobile notebook drives are 5400rpm drives. It's not USB3, it's the hard drive.
 
3

3drteest

macrumors newbie
Feb 29, 2008
21
8
reemas said:
its a seagate drive, i believe the seagate expansion 3TB drive. 7200 RPM SATA drives with 3 1/TB platters. i got mine for about $125 from amazon 4 days ago. i think the apple tech supports are a bit right though, the firmware has to be recent to really achieve these speeds.
Click to expand...


Okay, thanks for that info. Yep, it seems that any older enclosure needs firmware updates, which is a bummer.
 
L

loewendan

macrumors newbie
Jun 19, 2012
8
0
rookpsu said:
I just picked up the latest offering from Seagate (3TB Backup Plus) to leverage my new MBA's USB 3.0 port. Apparently it's the successor to the GoFlex line. Anyhow.. I ran quick test a moment ago and it was exhibiting some impressive speeds.

Image
Click to expand...

Good to see... I've been trying to find any external USB 3 drive with a 7200 rpm... to go with the new rMBP coming this week. I saw that same amazon review of the seagate support saying they used 7200's in those 3TB versions... glad to here your getting good speed out of it. I'll have to go pick one up tomorrow.

Saw another post from a guy with a rMBP who said the same drive wasn't recognized by his computer when he plugged it in out of the box, hoping that's an isolated incident and not the norm.
 
U

undies1993

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
842
6
Ann Arbor, Michigan
3drteest said:
I've spent hours over the last few days working with Apple techs and we've come to the conclusion that although Apple has "USB3", it doesn't support most, if any, devices. Absolutely ridiculous. The devices will work, but only at USB2 speeds. Apple blames this on the device manufacturers for not upgrading their firmware to support Apple.
Click to expand...

Did anyone notice the OS update that was supposed to help this? Anyone notice any difference?
 
3

3drteest

macrumors newbie
Feb 29, 2008
21
8
It made no difference with the USB 3 enclosures that I have. I'm not sure what USB 3 problem it was supposed to solve.
 
pfjellman

pfjellman

macrumors regular
Mar 18, 2010
209
4
Oregon
I'm getting 120/110MB/sec read/write with a Vantec NexStar3 enclosure and 7200RPM drive. Way better than USB 2.0, which was frequently 20/10MB/sec.

The enclosure was about $30. Works perfect.

Quick comparison of internal SSD vs. USB 3.0 vs. USB 2.0: http://perryfjellman.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/usb-3-0-enclosure-compatible-with-2012-macbook-air/
 
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C

carlos00

macrumors newbie
Jul 17, 2012
23
0
I am getting ~90MB/s 91MB/s (write/read) on USB3 enclosure with Seagate 7200rpm disk, limiting factor is the HD not the USB 3.0 connection
 
I

ilivelife

macrumors member
Jul 12, 2012
34
0
undies1993 said:
They really get slower with more data on them?
Click to expand...

Yes, of course. Try to fill your old MacBook up with stuff and do some random work or play games. Afterwards try to dele as many files as u can so the hard drive is as clean as u can live with. You will definitely see a difference. I could see a huge difference with my last MBP.

I think this thread is very interesting. I've lately tried many external drives and I must admin that the Buffalo Extreme is the only drive that gives me nice speeds in BM Disk Speed Test.

I just tried with my latest WD My Passport 3.0 1tb. I only get 75/75 MB/S. That slow.
 
U

undies1993

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 10, 2011
842
6
Ann Arbor, Michigan
ilivelife said:
Yes, of course. Try to fill your old MacBook up with stuff and do some random work or play games. Afterwards try to dele as many files as u can so the hard drive is as clean as u can live with. You will definitely see a difference. I could see a huge difference with my last MBP.

I think this thread is very interesting. I've lately tried many external drives and I must admin that the Buffalo Extreme is the only drive that gives me nice speeds in BM Disk Speed Test.

I just tried with my latest WD My Passport 3.0 1tb. I only get 75/75 MB/S. That slow.
Click to expand...

What kind of drive is in the Buffalo Extreme?
 
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