Wii U, will you?

0098386 · Sep 15, 2012

MacRumorUser said:
Yeah but it's the same bolloxing as the 3DS to 3DSXL.

Basically if your trading in your Wii at time of getting a WiiU you are screwed.

It's just not good enough.

It's not good enough by a long shot, but at least there's one way of getting your old content onto the new system.

Put a preorder down this morning - Premium console with NintendoLand (enjoyed that at E3), Mario, ZombiU and Rayman.

Is this also the first console to ship with a HDMI lead?

T'hain Esh Kelch · Sep 15, 2012

How was the visuals compared to the current generation?

MRU · Sep 15, 2012

T'hain Esh Kelch said:
How was the visuals compared to the current generation?

Well since the current gen also includes the Wii - they are much improved ;-)

But basically we can expect similar if not 'slightly' better than PS3 and Xbox 360 graphics.

Activisition developer have said that Call of duty Black Ops 2 on Wii is Full HD and 60FPS.

Now whether it's actually rendering Full HD or Scaling is still up for question, but assuming it's rendering in 1080p @ 60fps, that's certainly an increase over the 360 & PS3 which are usually rendered nativley at 1024x600 and then just stretched / scaled up to 720p (or 1080p in 360 case).

That would indicate it is actually quite a lot more powerful than the PS3 and 360.

However I suspect what will actually turn out to be the case is that it's rendered at the same 1024x600 and then simply upscaled to 1080p, meaning it's basically same power as 360.

We wait and see. However.... from other developers (including nintendo) nearly all other launch titles point to them being 720p only, meaning yet again it seems the Wii U may support 1080p, but doesn't have the real guff to drive it...

And early previews of games like Ninja Gaiden 3 and Mass Effect 3 are apparently not as good as the 360 or PS3 versions of the same game.

Until this thing release and Digital Foundry test - we won't know.

Don't be expecting a power horse and you wont be disappointed seems to be the moral of the story.

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Dagless said:
Is this also the first console to ship with a HDMI lead?

No....

The original Xbox 360 Elite version (before subsequent hardware revisions) also shipped with a black HDMI lead and the optical out adapter ;-)

Distinguished by its black finish and signature metallic detailing, Xbox 360 Elite will have an estimated retail price of $479.99 (U.S.), and comes packed with components and accessories for the ultimate high-definition entertainment experience:

Xbox 360 Elite console: The console is equipped with a premium black finish and three powerful core processors capable of producing the best in HD entertainment (up to 1080p), 16:9 cinematic aspect ratio, anti-aliasing for smooth textures, full surround sound, HDMI cable and DVD playback with upscaling capabilities right out of the box.
Xbox 360 120GB hard drive: The 120GB detachable hard drive lets you save your games and store television shows, movies, music, pictures, trailers, levels, demos, and other content available from Xbox LIVE Marketplace. The hard drive is sold separately for an estimated retail price of $179.99 (U.S.).
Xbox 360 Wireless Controller (black): This award-winning, high-performance wireless controller, now in black, features the Xbox® Guide Button for quick, in-game access to friends and music. It has a range of up to 30 feet and a battery life of 30 hours on two AA batteries. It is sold separately for an estimated retail price of $49.99 (U.S.).
Xbox 360 headset (black): Now available in black, the headset lets you strategize or trade taunts while playing games and send voice messages to friends on Xbox Live.
Xbox 360 HDMI cable: New to Xbox 360, HDMI allows you to get HD video (up to 1080p) and multichannel surround sound, all from one cable.
Xbox Live Silver Membership: With this, you can chat with friends online, collect achievements and gamerscores, send and receive voice and text messages, and access Xbox Live Marketplace content such as gme demos, HD movies and TV, as well as the best in downloadable games from Xbox Live Arcade.
One-month subscription to Xbox Live Gold: An Xbox Live Gold Membership provides a complete online entertainment experience. Subscribe to this premium service and engage in competitive online multiplayer matches, tailor your matchmaking via feedback and accomplishments, chat with more than one person at a time, and take advantage of unique privileges in the Xbox Live Marketplace and Xbox Live Arcade.

However .... This will be the first console to 'standardise' packaging of a HDMI cable.

T'hain Esh Kelch · Sep 15, 2012

I was afraid of that. From the videos I've seen so far, the quality definitely doesn't look better than their PS3/Xbox360 counterparts.

0098386 · Sep 15, 2012

MacRumorUser said:
Activisition developer have said that Call of duty Black Ops 2 on Wii is Full HD and 60FPS.

Now whether it's actually rendering Full HD or Scaling is still up for question, but assuming it's rendering in 1080p @ 60fps, that's certainly an increase over the 360 & PS3 which are usually rendered nativley at 1024x600 and then just stretched / scaled up to 720p (or 1080p in 360 case).

If they're saying it's in full HD, it'll be 1080p and not just scaled.

Which is quite impressive for a console. But bear in mind PC's have been able to run COD games are beyond 1080p at 60fps for a long time, so it's not hard to imagine a next-gen console will be able to do the same. But I wouldn't bet on launch day ports to show off a systems power. Even the low powered Rayman Origins slows down on the Vita at times.

From what I saw at E3, Nintendoland and Mario U looked very clear. Getting up close to the screen I couldn't see any scaling going on. I don't know if they're 1080p or just cleverly picked TVs.

boy-better-know · Sep 15, 2012

The main thing stopping me from getting a Wii U other than not being too excited about the line up, is the design. I know I have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but it is horrible, it looks like it wasn't meant to be seen, they haven't even covered up the disgusting red sync button. I don't understand how a company can go from the amazing product designs they used to make pre wii, to what they have now.

I want a million different colours, a crazy pointless handle at the back, versions with Pikachu on and a cover for that unsightly sync button.

I'll tell you what I think it looks like, a car stereo/CD player when you pull it out of the dashboard.

I know this isn't a reason not to buy, it is after all, about the games. At some point I will pick one up when there are games I can no longer wait to buy, but for now I will be an onlooker at launch.

MRU · Sep 15, 2012

Dagless said:
From what I saw at E3, Nintendoland and Mario U looked very clear. Getting up close to the screen I couldn't see any scaling going on. I don't know if they're 1080p or just cleverly picked TVs.

all post analysis of those games suggest its actually 720p and Nintendoland at e3 had no antialiasing according to digital foundry.

Personally I just want Mario in HD with lots of post processing and looking fab and decent anti-alasing. Whether that's 720p or 1080p I don't care.

skottichan · Sep 15, 2012

Dagless said:
It's not good enough by a long shot, but at least there's one way of getting your old content onto the new system.

Put a preorder down this morning - Premium console with NintendoLand (enjoyed that at E3), Mario, ZombiU and Rayman.

Is this also the first console to ship with a HDMI lead?

Not to sound terribly stupid, what exactly is an "HDMI lead"?

If it's just AV through HDMI, the PS3 had it from day one.

Liquorpuki · Sep 15, 2012

skottichan said:
Unno, the stuff they're developing for the Vita/PS3 combo is more interesting, since I'll be able to take the controller with me anywhere I go. I'll still probably get one, but my problem is just that Nintendo's first party stuff is getting amazingly dull.

I'm sick of 2D Mario games, but that's pretty much it. Besides games, the make it/break it thing for me is that tablet controller and what it introduces

skottichan · Sep 15, 2012

Liquorpuki said:
I'm sick of 2D Mario games, but that's pretty much it. Besides games, the make it/break it thing for me is that tablet controller and what it introduces

I'll admit, I'm a Metroid fangirl. I just wish they would put the resources into it that they put into Mario and Zelda.

I've heard that there's a new Metroid coming, I think I'll wait for details before I hop to the Wii-U.

-SD- · Sep 15, 2012

boy-better-know said:
The main thing stopping me from getting a Wii U other than not being too excited about the line up, is the design. I know I have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but it is horrible, it looks like it wasn't meant to be seen, they haven't even covered up the disgusting red sync button. I don't understand how a company can go from the amazing product designs they used to make pre wii, to what they have now.

I want a million different colours, a crazy pointless handle at the back, versions with Pikachu on and a cover for that unsightly sync button.

Have to agree. I was hoping that when they showed the final design at E3 the sync button would have been hidden behind a centered front panel, like on the Wii. I was actually quite shocked to see they left it as it is. It's not as if you're going to be using the sync button very often, and if you are, well... Nintendo want to sort their wireless communications out then.

I'm more on the fence over the media streaming capabilities. Games wise, I'm happy with Lego City, Nintendo Land and the Wii U version of Skylanders for the kids, so no complaints there. But I want to know if I can stream all the media off the HDDs connected to the TimeCapsule and replace the WD TV Live box. There's also been no mention of TVii for the UK. I'm not expecting Blu-ray playback, but I'm really hoping that there is some decent media streaming functionality. I'd also like to know more about the mysterious TV button on the Upad and if it's fully HDMI-CEC compatible.

For once I'm sort of glad that it's coming out in the US nearly two weeks ahead of the UK. There's time for all these questions (and many more) to be answered before I splash the cash.

:apple:

0098386 · Sep 15, 2012

skottichan said:
Not to sound terribly stupid, what exactly is an "HDMI lead"?

If it's just AV through HDMI, the PS3 had it from day one.

HDMI cable. My PS3 "phat" and slim, and my Xbox Arcade and S model didn't come with one.

Carlanga · Sep 15, 2012

I won't buy it this year, maybe in 3 years from now. I don't know how can people say Zelda is stale, it continues to show at least good stories and even thought the mechanics and designs are the same it doens't make it really stale. If it was any different then it wouldn't be a Zelda game... Assassin's Creed did the same, but in way shorter periods that made people get tired of it due to how fast they churned each one and now when AC3 comes out we will have some change. Nevertheless people might complain but we buy all of them

My first console this gen was a Wii then the PS3, but this next next gen I will wait until all consoles are out to see if I even buy one. I still have a huge backlog for the PS3 to go through and a little one for the Wii so I'm in no rush to spend more money when I can get this gen games for cheaper prices in the next 1-3 years.

chrono1081 · Sep 15, 2012

I'd love to get one right away but I can't justify it.

I REALLY want the new Super Mario Bros Wii U. 4 player Mario is so much fun.

MRU · Sep 15, 2012

Dagless said:
HDMI cable. My PS3 "phat" and slim, and my Xbox Arcade and S model didn't come with one.

No PS3 ever shipped with a hdmi cable. I bought the USA launch model. The euro launch model and the slim euro launch model....

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Liquorpuki said:
I'm sick of 2D Mario games, but that's pretty much it. Besides games, the make it/break it thing for me is that tablet controller and what it introduces

Sick of 2D Mario... That's gaming blasphemy

skottichan · Sep 15, 2012

Dagless said:
HDMI cable. My PS3 "phat" and slim, and my Xbox Arcade and S model didn't come with one.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I'm not worried if a console comes with an HDMI cable, I bought a handful a while back from monoprice for like $20. My problem is, I'm running out of HDMI ports on my AV receiver.

I'll most likely get a Wii-U, but probably not until early next year. With the big game rush starting with Borderlands 2, I'm not going to have time to add another console to the mix.

peskaa · Sep 16, 2012

MacRumorUser said:
But basically we can expect similar if not 'slightly' better than PS3 and Xbox 360 graphics.

Activisition developer have said that Call of duty Black Ops 2 on Wii is Full HD and 60FPS.

Now whether it's actually rendering Full HD or Scaling is still up for question, but assuming it's rendering in 1080p @ 60fps, that's certainly an increase over the 360 & PS3 which are usually rendered nativley at 1024x600 and then just stretched / scaled up to 720p (or 1080p in 360 case).

That would indicate it is actually quite a lot more powerful than the PS3 and 360.

However I suspect what will actually turn out to be the case is that it's rendered at the same 1024x600 and then simply upscaled to 1080p, meaning it's basically same power as 360.

We wait and see. However.... from other developers (including nintendo) nearly all other launch titles point to them being 720p only, meaning yet again it seems the Wii U may support 1080p, but doesn't have the real guff to drive it...

And early previews of games like Ninja Gaiden 3 and Mass Effect 3 are apparently not as good as the 360 or PS3 versions of the same game.

Until this thing release and Digital Foundry test - we won't know.

Don't be expecting a power horse and you wont be disappointed seems to be the moral of the story.

See, I don't get how Activision can magically get CoD running at 1080p/60 when everybody else is hitting 720p/60 or 720p/30. I think you're right, there's upscaling involved and they're being a bit disingenuous with their stats.

From what I've read on the WiiU it has 1GB of RAM available to games (and another 1GB for the OS), which is a definite improvement over the PS3/360, but that is coupled to a weak CPU and GPU. As such, we'll get an improvement over the PS3/360, but only to the extent that games will run in 720p natively, rather than the sub-HD that many games run at prior to being upscaled. There may be a handful of true 1080p games, just as Housemarque can get Super Stardust HD running at full 1080p/60 on PS3, but I'd wager they will be in the minority.

1080p/60 will be the realm of the PlayStation 4 and the next Xbox. The WiiU is a weird mid-ground in terms of graphics.

In regards to TVii, it appears to be a US thing at the moment, with no content deals arranged for the UK or anywhere else. Long term I think it'd be fair to expect Netflix, iPlayer and maybe Lovefilm to be on the platform, but the UK doesn't have the reliance on cable companies that the US does, so the market is rather different.

T'hain Esh Kelch · Sep 16, 2012

peskaa said:
See, I don't get how Activision can magically get CoD running at 1080p/60 when everybody else is hitting 720p/60 or 720p/30. I think you're right, there's upscaling involved and they're being a bit disingenuous with their stats.

Why not? Remember you are comparing a 'new' console to two 6 year old consoles.

peskaa · Sep 16, 2012

T'hain Esh Kelch said:
Why not? Remember you are comparing a 'new' console to two 6 year old consoles.

No, I'm comparing the results that the maker of the console, Nintendo are achieving on their first party games (720p/30 native, no AA), versus a third party developer who would have had less access to the hardware and less time to develop. Something isn't right.

The other issue, with comparing to the PS3/360 is pretty clear. Nintendo are producing a console that is costing a little bit more than a 360/PS3 - and a huge chunk of that cost is the gamepad (retailing for around £100 as a standalone). This means the base console is going be be costing around £150, ish, at retail prices. That's actually cheaper than a 360 or a PS3, which in turn means that the WiiU isn't going to be able to out run them very far, simply due to the small budget.

This is proven* by the very fact that the WiiU seems to have a low end AMD GPU and an IBM CPU that is very similar to the one in the 360. It's what they can fit in to the budget, which results in performance that is only marginally better than a 360/PS3 - they've splashed it all on the gamepad.

* By proven I mean in regards to the rumours and analysis so far.

derbladerunner · Sep 16, 2012

wafl iron said:
im pretty sure i heard that vc purchases are transferrable.

Yes, they are (this requires the Wii console, so don't sell before the old console before you have the Wii U), but one annoying detail:

Wii Virtual Console Titles Not Playable on GamePad

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/31715

I hope this gets fixed in a software update later on. The gamepad with its small screen would be very nice to play these old games in my opinion.

T'hain Esh Kelch · Sep 17, 2012

peskaa said:
No, I'm comparing the results that the maker of the console, Nintendo are achieving on their first party games (720p/30 native, no AA), versus a third party developer who would have had less access to the hardware and less time to develop. Something isn't right.

I think it is more important for a AAA FPS title like CoD to have the greatest visuals, than it is for Mii's and Nintendos kiddy graphics in general..

Not that I disagree with you, but I would expect the WiiU to be able to output 1080p@30fps without dropping a sweat.. At least if the board of directors at Nintendo had any sane reasoning..

derbladerunner said:
I hope this gets fixed in a software update later on. The gamepad with its small screen would be very nice to play these old games in my opinion.

I absolutely agree. Very bad move on their part if not fixed.. Although I'm already quite upset that Wii VC games are not transferable just by logging into your account..

peskaa · Sep 17, 2012

T'hain Esh Kelch said:
I think it is more important for a AAA FPS title like CoD to have the greatest visuals, than it is for Mii's and Nintendos kiddy graphics in general.. Not that I disagree with you, but I would expect the WiiU to be able to output 1080p@30fps without dropping a sweat.. At least if the board of directors at Nintendo had any sane reasoning..

From what has been leaked of the specs, I don't expect it to hit 1080p for most titles - mainly due to the fact that it is running two screens. If it was just running the TV then yes, it'd reach 1080p, but as is, 720p will be the standard.

As for CoD having better graphics, don't get your logic there. Nintendo will want their stuff to look as good as possible as well, and Nintendo will understand how to code for the system better as well. Just because you think CoD should be able to run at 1080p/60 doesn't magically make it so.

T'hain Esh Kelch · Sep 17, 2012

peskaa said:
As for CoD having better graphics, don't get your logic there. Nintendo will want their stuff to look as good as possible as well, and Nintendo will understand how to code for the system better as well. Just because you think CoD should be able to run at 1080p/60 doesn't magically make it so.

AAA FPS titles often do a lot of their sales on the visuals, to cater to the mindless teenage masses. Nintendo games on the other hand don't rely on amazingly impressive graphics with bloom effects all over the place, but on gameplay. Mario and Link have done just fine with Wii graphics, CoD not so much.

peskaa · Sep 17, 2012

T'hain Esh Kelch said:
AAA FPS titles often do a lot of their sales on the visuals, to cater to the mindless teenage masses. Nintendo games on the other hand don't rely on amazingly impressive graphics with bloom effects all over the place, but on gameplay. Mario and Link have done just fine with Wii graphics, CoD not so much.

Which is why most FPS titles skip the Wii. However, with the WiiU we're seeing both on the same platform - where Nintendo, with all their in-house experience of building the WiiU, longer time to get used to the system, etc. can only get their games to run at 720p/30 without AA, whereas Activision can apparently manage 1080p/60, despite being a third party developer with restricted access to hardware?

This isn't about what graphics should be present, it's about two massively mismatched performance claims on the same hardware, with one being far more believable (Nintendo) than the other.

Miharu · Sep 17, 2012

I didn't for once believe that the console would output most of it's games in real Full HD and 60 FPS. It is realistically the same machine as 360/PS3 albeit with more RAM, which is at least an upgrade.

To be honest I can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p resolution when sitting a few meters from the TV, I even have a 42" TV so it's not because it's small. Of course it's noticeable in PC gaming where you're close to the monitor.

What matters much more to me is that the games will have fast loading times and a solid high frame rate. So even if most games run at 720p/60 I would be really happy with the performance.

Also, it seems that friend codes are back...

Wii U, will you?

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