Wii U, will you?

MacRumorUser said:

did I not post that ;-)

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D'oh. Though you didn't provide a source

I agree though, why did they provide such a poor triple-core CPU? They could have at least matched the 360, considering its design has been around rather a long time.

Of course, it won't impact every game - some titles are very light on CPU usage, but others demolish them.

I think it might be time for me to jump ship as a Nintendo fan. Mario, Link, and all the other good Nintendo characters have been a large part of my life. But lets face it, Nintendo hasn't really produced anything innovative or new for a long time now. Super smash brothers was amazing back in its day, but its day is almost over. I expect new, bigger, and better every time. So much so that pushing blocks as Link in an effort to solve a temple isn't as engaging as the alternatives its competitors offer (Uncharted Series, Borderlands, oh man the list is huge). The only thing Nintendo had going for it were the games. It used to be the king of games. Now its the king of gimmicks and games we've already played a million times.

MacRumorUser said:

Why did they go with IBM processor that was weaker than the now 7 year old Xbox 360???? I just can't get my head around that decision.

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Worked fine for the Wii!

T'hain Esh Kelch said:

Worked fine for the Wii!

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Yes and no.... Let me explain.


Technically the Wii used a better processor than the then current generation (excluding next-gen) of consoles, the original xbox, PS2 and Gamecube.

Whilst it wasn't as powerful as the New generation (Xbox 360 and PS3) it was still a more powerful than the generation it replaced.


The Wii U processor however whilst yes more powerful than the Wii, it is NOT more powerful than the Current Generation of machines it is set to replace (Xbox 360 & PS3) and likewise the next gen (Xbox 720, PS4) will be powerhouses in copmarison.


My point is that they didn't even go 'better' than the current gen with their new hardware. I never expected exponential leaps or powerhouse computing, but one would have thought CPU wise it would have at least bested 7 year old technology.

Look at the Wii now, it always felt dated and now-a-days looks and feels even more so. That was despite it having better specs than the generation it replaced.

The Wii U having 'less power' admittedly only in regards to CPU, compared to even current generation hardware, may look even more dated in another 5-7 years time compared to the disparity between Wii & 360|PS3 now when up against Xbox720|PS4 titles.

We can assume the next gen is going to last slightly longer than the current because every generation seems to last 12-18 months longer than the previous. So 7-8 years down the line, that choice of CPU could be a crippling decision.

Of course this is mere speculation as we don't know the true hardware of next gen, but if the 4-8 core machines with 8GB ram rumours are anything to go by - the Wii U is in comparison to the disparity|differences between Wii & 360|PS3 regarding memory and processor - even more behind than that...


We wait and see, but I am not convinced 100% Nintendo will win the next generation race even with a 12 month head start, if power wise they aren't even whooping ass over current hardware.

Also in the back of my mind is still the fact that 'the company that releases hardware first, has never been the victor in the console war of that generation', as long as I remember.


Still looking forward to the Wii U, I'm mid 30's now, my expectations are tempered by past experience. But we are in for an interesting 24 months anyway.

Has any company that makes consoles ever upgraded a current one with better hardware or do they just make the same one over and over for years (besides the smaller versions) with the same basic specs?

Mac'nCheese said:

Has any company that makes consoles ever upgraded a current one with better hardware or do they just make the same one over and over for years (besides the smaller versions) with the same basic specs?

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I don't think so. SEGA released the 32X add-on for the Genesis but I don't remember that doing well at all.

Mac'nCheese said:

Has any company that makes consoles ever upgraded a current one with better hardware or do they just make the same one over and over for years (besides the smaller versions) with the same basic specs?

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They make them the same for the simple reason that a game needs to run on all versions of the system. If you buy a PlayStation 3 game, it should run on everything labelled as a PlayStation 3, else you get very grumpy customers.

I was at least expecting Wii U to have more power in every way than the previous generation, not just RAM... I'm sure in a year or two when developers know how to program for Wii U we'll have same or possibly even better looking games for Wii U compared to PS3 and Xbox 360, but also in that year or two we'll have the actual next generation of PS4/720 and Nintendo will again miss the multi-platform titles like say Final Fantasy XV and other technically savvy games.

Mac'nCheese said:

Has any company that makes consoles ever upgraded a current one with better hardware or do they just make the same one over and over for years (besides the smaller versions) with the same basic specs?

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I recommend watching the videos by Angry Video Game Nerd regarding the 32x, Sega CD etc

Big N also tried a few expansions such as the ram expansion module which was required for certain games (e.g. Perfect Dark) but there was also a Nintendo disc drive planned for the SNES and a "DD" add-on for the N64 but they were never realeased outside Japan. I have forgot their exact details.

Basically, hardware upgrades do not sell well for consoles.

Wardenski said:

I recommend watching the videos by Angry Video Game Nerd regarding the 32x, Sega CD etc

Big N also tried a few expansions such as the ram expansion module which was required for certain games (e.g. Perfect Dark) but there was also a Nintendo disc drive planned for the SNES and a "DD" add-on for the N64 but they were never realeased outside Japan. I have forgot their exact details.

Basically, hardware upgrades do not sell well for consoles.

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I'll check those out. And thanks all for ur replies. I'm just curious though: when a computer company upgrades their machines with more ram and/or processor, the old games still work. If Nintendo updates the wii with a better processor and more ram, couldn't the software companies make new games that take advantage of the new specs while the old games would still work on the new unit?

Mac'nCheese said:

I'll check those out. And thanks all for ur replies. I'm just curious though: when a computer company upgrades their machines with more ram and/or processor, the old games still work. If Nintendo updates the wii with a better processor and more ram, couldn't the software companies make new games that take advantage of the new specs while the old games would still work on the new unit?

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I'll just quote myself, as you didn't seem to quite get my point the first time round...

peskaa said:

They make them the same for the simple reason that a game needs to run on all versions of the system. If you buy a PlayStation 3 game, it should run on everything labelled as a PlayStation 3, else you get very grumpy customers.

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If Nintendo sell me a Wii, I damn well expect every game labelled as a Wii game to play on it, without having to shell out for hardware upgrades to overcome a limitation of the original design. The PC market works differently, but many people don't want to be constantly upgrading a PC, which is why they buy consoles.

It's also a lot of work for developers. You want to be able to sell your game to the maximum number of people (ie: everybody who owns a Wii), which becomes diluted by hardware upgrades (ie: only 50% of Wii owners have a RAM upgrade, so you can instantly only sell your game to 50% of the audience). Having a single hardware specification for the lifetime of a console means there is a specific hardware target for developers to work with, with no variables.

peskaa said:

I'll just quote myself, as you didn't seem to quite get my point the first time round...



If Nintendo sell me a Wii, I damn well expect every game labelled as a Wii game to play on it, without having to shell out for hardware upgrades to overcome a limitation of the original design. The PC market works differently, but many people don't want to be constantly upgrading a PC, which is why they buy consoles.

It's also a lot of work for developers. You want to be able to sell your game to the maximum number of people (ie: everybody who owns a Wii), which becomes diluted by hardware upgrades (ie: only 50% of Wii owners have a RAM upgrade, so you can instantly only sell your game to 50% of the audience). Having a single hardware specification for the lifetime of a console means there is a specific hardware target for developers to work with, with no variables.

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Ok thanks. I didn't get it until this post. The new games wouldn't work on the older systems. Make sense.

Oh FFS!!!

One of the few games that I really was looking forward to has now slipped to next year too.

Rayman Legends

Now I'm debating bothering getting a Wii U at launch at all.....

A Nintendo representative was recently quoted that the "Wii U is 19 times as powerfull as the Playstation 3"..

Uhm.. Sure...

I am even less interested in this console than I was in the Wii when it came out....and that's saying something!

T'hain Esh Kelch said:

A Nintendo representative was recently quoted that the "Wii U is 19 times as powerfull as the Playstation 3"..

Uhm.. Sure...

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Nintendo in giving crack to employees shocker?


EDIT:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-what-is-inside-the-wii-u

Teardown! Interesting points?

1) CPU definitely looks to be a triple core, but based off the Wii CPU not POWER7 as previously thought. In turn, this means the CPU is ultimately based off the Gamecube...
2) CPU die size is tiny compared to the GPU, further supporting the theories that the WiiU is going to have a good GPU coupled with a not-so-good CPU.
3) 2GB RAM? + 32MB eDRAM on the GPU.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-11-new-super-mario-bros-u-supports-full-1080p

Looks like some games will be running at full 1080p. Wonder if this means all Nintendo titles, or just some? Third party is still variable.

peskaa said:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-11-new-super-mario-bros-u-supports-full-1080p

Looks like some games will be running at full 1080p. Wonder if this means all Nintendo titles, or just some? Third party is still variable.

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uhoh!! time to Sing along....


"What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours..."



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-12-nintendo-removes-mario-wii-u-1080p-claim

MacRumorUser said:

"What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours..."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-12-nintendo-removes-mario-wii-u-1080p-claim

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Quite sad.. If Mario can't run in 1080p, which is what I definitely expected, since Nintendo has to show of the capabilities of the WiiU.. Well....

And Mario isn't even graphically taxing.. :S

I'm more worried about Mario U than the Wii U with that claim. That tells me Mario U is massively unoptimised/rushed game. It's a bit strange really and we'll probably never know why they dropped 1080p given how tight-lipped Nintendo is.

What I think- Mario U was going to be a Wii game and pushed to the WiiU at the last minute (Twilight Princess).

Did I read that right?

Sorry why one earth did they saddle reasonable GPU & 2GB of ram with a 700mhz CPU ? (albeit 3 cores)

Seriously our phones have more CPU power, heck my kettle has more CPU power

Surely even the cheapest duo-core i3 would have been so much better, especially considering this is not a cheap console.

As good the GPU & Ram are, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.


So no Rayman (with rumours of spring launch on PS3 and 360)
So no real 1080p gaming even for a basic 2D platformer
And a criminally underpowered 3rd generation CPU ?

€430 for the premium zombi U pack...... I'm talking myself out of this.

MacRumorUser said:

Sorry why one earth did they saddle reasonable GPU & 2GB of ram with a 700mhz CPU ? (albeit 3 cores)

Seriously our phones have more CPU power, heck my kettle has more CPU power

Surely even the cheapest duo-core i3 would have been so much better, especially considering this is not a cheap console. :

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That really doesn't matter, since your console is neither a phone, computer or kettle. It doesn't need power to run a lot of things, it only needs to run games, and don't need to be as powerfull as your.. Kettle.

What matters is the specifications compared to current consoles.

T'hain Esh Kelch said:

What matters is the specifications compared to current consoles.

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...which are 6+ years old.

Not a benchmark I would use for a new console that is releasing this year.

Taustin Powers said:

...which are 6+ years old.

Not a benchmark I would use for a new console that is releasing this year.

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Doesn't really matter, as it would tell us if we get PS3/Xbox360 level graphic, or higher.

But were going into the Next New Gen!

T'hain Esh Kelch said:

Doesn't really matter.

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Yes it does sadly. Every system has a bottleneck and I'm guessing the CPU will be the Wii U's especially going forward.

Just as the Wii's spec didn't hurt too much on launch, but a few years later and you can see the problems it caused.

Multi-Platform games skipped the wii due to the monumental disparity between the next-gen (ps3/360/pc) and the last-gen Wii hardware.

The Wii U will be grand initially, but come March next year as Pre E3 hype kicks into overtime were going to be treated with some killer looking Next-Gen games, and once more the disparity between the consoles kicks in.

Even in the Wii U has the GPU grunt to at least handle albeit with trade off's the PS4 / Xbox720 multi-platform titles, its CPU if as underpowered as reports seem to indicate, will really cripple the machine, especially when we all know Mulit-platform titles are never truly optimised for each system.

This means going forward I predict poor Multi-platform ports, or developers simply not bothering in the same way as they did with the Wii.

So yes. It DOES MATTER in the overall scheme I'm afraid, especially in 2014,2015,2016,2017 when the performance difference will likely be very telling.

If Nintendo can't optimise their own first party games, and pretty simplistic ones graphically, Mario U & nintendoland and even the forthcoming Pikmin 3 for 1080p or even 720p 60fps (all of these will be 720p 30fps) then it doesn't bode well if the manufacturer can't optimise efficiently on the hardware it's chose / sanctioned.

I'm no longer buying a console based on 'just now' especially as the Wii U's line up is now leaving me underwhelmed as the few titles I wanted have slipped. But if 7-8 year lifespan of the new wave of consoles (each new wave seems to last a year longer than the previous) then I don't want another Wii. Sat 99.5% of the time gathering dust only to be brought out once or twice a year when Nintendo release a game worth playing.