'Nightline' Looks at Apple's Woes as Stock Declines 20% from All-Time High

Ryth said:

In terms of the iPad and PC...are you kidding me? Go look at PC sales since the iPad has come out. It's already been pretty much proven that the iPad has cannibalized Dell and HP sales because most people realize they dont need a desktop..or even a laptop..they never did. The iPad does everything they need.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/04/charlie-wolf-apples-ipad-is-clearly-cannibalizing-pc-sales/

http://bgr.com/2012/09/04/ipad-cannibalizing-pc-sales-analyst-charlie-wolf/

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Did you read those links?...

I see government stopped buying PCs. Otherwise :

Overall PC shipments to the home rose 1.1% worldwide in Q3

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And the second link only talks about schools (which I guess is the government statistic in the first link?).

So... How are we in a post PC era? Consumers buy more PCs than what they used to.

LordVic said:

Ipad mini pricepoint has not sat well with the majority of the market. it's selling well enough, but not what forecasters predicted.

a terrible ipad mini product announcement where apple was forced to do comparisons to another persons device, instead of letting it stand alone and sell itself

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iPad mini has outsold Apple's predictions, according to UK newspapers, anyway.

It wasn't a terrible announcement - many people cheered / laughed in the audience. Remember when OS X was compared to Vista on stage? Was that a terrible launch? I seem to remember Snow Leopard doing extremely well.

Rocketman said:

The gross profit on the iPad Mini is something like 150%, so gross margin over 50%, amortized over the annual run. So not only are margins increasing, the annuity of the phone upgrade cycle is proving to be steady and large. Even if growth drops below 100% due to the large numbers after China is first ever saturated by Apple, the growth rate is likely to drift toward 20% over 5 or so years. That means we have 2-3 more good years for AAPL.

Rocketman

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Gross margin for 3Q2012 (Apple 2012 fiscal 4Q) was 40% and management project the gross margin to be 36% in 4Q12 (fiscal 2013 1Q). If Ipad mini is significantly below corporate average (which is project to be 36%), how do you get to over 50% gross margin for Ipad mini? How do you get 150% for gross profit ? do you know gross profit is defined in $ term and not a percentage?

Gross margin is revenue of good - cost of good. But cost of good is way more than the BOM (bill of material) tear down that is floating around the internet. Cost of good also include profit to Foxcon, part spoilage (i.e. part broken during manufacturing), rework cost, inventory cost, overhead, transportation, any tax associate with the part, regulatory cost for manufacturing or approval for sales in a country, customization (LTE band is different between country and the product has to be builded differently), warranty cost, all the cost of return that everyone want to try out the Ipad mini for 14 days and then return it, distribution cost (all the Fedex, UPS, Target, Walmart, Apple store profit) etc. etc.

If you like to talk about Apple finance, can you at least open up one of the quarterly earning report and go over it at least once?

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Reut...le-will-introduce-the-Apple-iPad-mini_id35504

During the recent patent trial with Samsung, Apple said that its profit margin on U.S. sales of the iPad ranged from 23% to 32% from October 2010 through March 2012.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/952...arnings-call-transcript?page=5&p=qanda&l=last

We also added the iPad Mini to our iPad line-up. The iPad Mini has the full iPad experience, and we priced it aggressively at $329, delivering incredible value to our customers. Its gross margin is significantly below the corporate average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_profit

Gross profit = Net sales - Cost of goods sold

Purant said:

Did you read those links?...

I see government stopped buying PCs. Otherwise :



And the second link only talks about schools (which I guess is the government statistic in the first link?).

So... How are we in a post PC era? Consumers buy more PCs than what they used to.

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The trend of reduced PC and increased tablet has started, in few years all desktops may be replaced with virtual or cloud based Desktops with tablets / external monitors may be directly linked.

Enterprises will not invest on hardware instead just services over the net. Only overhead is recurring license cost and Internet connectivity. OS upgrade, applications, services, support and maintenance will be mostly included in this model.

Unless you need special purpose devices, all enterprises can manage with this model.

samcraig said:

Are you intentionally giving the poorest logic example possible?

Forget the fact that you and the other poster shouldn't be using that word. Your logic is ridiculous.

Having money isn't a sign if intelligence. Not having money isn't a sign of lack of intelligence.

That's like saying - I had pizza for lunch and I live in NYC. Since you didn't have pizza - you don't live in NYC.

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I'm so sorry. But having money IS a sign of having more intelligence. Financial intelligence. Excluding the obvious examples like; trust fund babies, settlement beneficiaries, lottery winners etc.

And no, it's not like saying I had pizza for lunch in NYC. It's nothing like that. Acquiring pizza is easy. Anyone can dumpster dive.

Lark.Landon said:

I'm so sorry. But having money IS a sign of having more intelligence. Financial intelligence. Excluding the obvious examples like; trust fund babies, settlement beneficiaries, lottery winners etc.

And no, it's not like saying I had pizza for lunch in NYC. It's nothing like that. Acquiring pizza is easy. Anyone can dumpster dive.

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Nope, having money is a sign of having more skills

Im not a hater but 2 words: jessica simpson

samcraig said:

Are you intentionally giving the poorest logic example possible?

Forget the fact that you and the other poster shouldn't be using that word. Your logic is ridiculous.

Having money isn't a sign if intelligence. Not having money isn't a sign of lack of intelligence.

That's like saying - I had pizza for lunch and I live in NYC. Since you didn't have pizza - you don't live in NYC.

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Excluding the pizza example. That was just a nonsensical statement. Lulz.

Ramchi said:

The trend of reduced PC and increased tablet has started, in few years all desktops may be replaced with virtual or cloud based Desktops with tablets / external monitors may be directly linked.

Enterprises will not invest on hardware instead just services over the net. Only overhead is recurring license cost and Internet connectivity. OS upgrade, applications, services, support and maintenance will be mostly included in this model.

Unless you need special purpose devices, all enterprises can manage with this model.

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This is a slightly rose-colored view of the potential for Cloud computing. There are myriad legal and logistical hurdles to overcome, and "Only overhead is recurring license cost and Internet connectivity..." is not necessarily as small a cost as you seem to think it is, especially for computer intensive applications.

Lark.Landon said:

Excluding the pizza example. That was just a nonsensical statement. Lulz.

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Thanks - now I know where you stand on the logical and posting credibility scale.

samcraig said:

Thanks - now I know where you stand on the logical and posting credibility scale.

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It would actually be "logic and posting credibility scale. ".

But like always, you never address the meat of the matter and focus on trivial mistakes. Dumb troll.

I love Apple products but I would bet that the stock never gets back to where it was on the day the iPhone 5 was released.

I'm not sure Apple is doing bad. In their last keynote they presented so many good products. The issue is when we let the financial market to be the only judge about everything, even about countries economies and way of living. We no more know what is good, what is beautiful, what is wise, we know only what makes a financial graph to go up. Nothing in this world is limitless. The higher you climb in the persuasion of getting over your limits, the harder you fall.
(All the ancient Greeks ethic, therefore their theater and art was about that. They called it Hubris, maybe we should critically compare some of the values of our society with theirs)

Two Apple Inc. (AAPL) Officials Unload $7M Of Stock

is this a bad sign?

chagla said:

Two Apple Inc. (AAPL) Officials Unload $7M Of Stock

is this a bad sign?

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No, it's a sign that they wanted to spend some of the money that they earned.

iChrist said:

iPad Mini: Worst resolution of all 7" tablets. 2 yr old iPad 2 hardware inside. High price.

This all equals lower sales.

.

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The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 has a lower resolution than the iPad Mini and is a tad sluggish, too. It is selling plenty.

Apple's hardware is there or thereabouts. Its traditionally high profit margins are the real problem. That model is only sustainable if the market perceives Apple to be providing a unique desirable range of products.

Google's Nexus range is providing decent competition without the cruft and bloatware that individual manufacturers foist upon their products and with the added benefit of speedy and sustained software support, which has always been Google's weak point once that responsibility shifts to individual manufacturers. Moreover, Google's aggressive pricing policy is diverting interest away from Apple.

I am much more tempted by the Nexus 7 3G at £239 for 32Gb than the £449 that Apple is asking for the equivalent iPad Mini even though I have enough invested in the Apple Appstore.

chagla said:

Two Apple Inc. (AAPL) Officials Unload $7M Of Stock

is this a bad sign?

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Not necessarily.

Remember, until you sell the stock, you don't have money. You have something worth money, but you can't say...go buy a new house with it. Now you can get around that somewhat - banks will often let you borrow against your assets with ultra-low interest loans, the dividends from that much stock are substantial, etc.

But sometimes you just want a really nice car.

You sell your stock to do that.

What's a troublesome sign is when you see top executives unloading *lots* of stock. For a company Apple's size, those sales aren't a lot. But consider Annie's, the people who make the tasty Mac and Cheese. Several of their top executives have sold *all* their stock in the company. That's a bad sign.

Tankmaze said:

can't understand how the stock market works.
all i see is a great lineup for the holiday and the stock plummet

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People are getting tired of Apple, just like they got tired of Microsoft. Apple's time as the megalomaniac company is coming to an end. Thank god.

I like to see some flavour on store shelves and have many companys prosper and battle it out with innovation.

wikus said:

People are getting tired of Apple, just like they got tired of Microsoft. Apple's time as the megalomaniac company is coming to an end. Thank god.

I like to see some flavour on store shelves and have many companys prosper and battle it out with innovation.

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Panic on the street. Probably hedge funds dumping all their stock after buying them early on in the year. Or couple be capital gains issue, although November is bit early to start dumping.

damitssam said:

Panic on the street. Probably hedge funds dumping all their stock after buying them early on in the year. Or couple be capital gains issue, although November is bit early to start dumping.

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Or everyone is concern about what to make of Apple earning in 2013? It is a big deal that Apple project YOY earning decline in 4Q12. It is supposed to be the best quarter that Apple have ever had given the number of new product launch this Q. The news that new product has lower gross margin is concerning. The problem with Foxconn Iphone 5 production is concerning. The gross margin decline bring up a lot of question about future profitability of Apple products (Ipad 5, Iphone 6 in 2013). Are they going to go back to the 40+% corporate gross margin that Apple enjoy in fiscal 12 or are they to be 36% that Apple is projecting for 4Q12 or below? A declining gross margin for a hardware company is a very bad things and everyone is trying to figure out if it is temporary or permanent. And then the losing of market share bring up even more question about the viability of the ecosystem in the next 5 to 6 years... What is not to worry about Apple the stock this day?

don't worry

xofruitcake said:

Or everyone is concern about what to make of Apple earning in 2013? It is a big deal that Apple project YOY earning decline in 4Q12. It is supposed to be the best quarter that Apple have ever had given the number of new product launch this Q. The news that new product has lower gross margin is concerning. The problem with Foxconn Iphone 5 production is concerning. The gross margin decline bring up a lot of question about future profitability of Apple products (Ipad 5, Iphone 6 in 2013). Are they going to go back to the 40+% corporate gross margin that Apple enjoy in fiscal 12 or are they to be 36% that Apple is projecting for 4Q12 or below? A declining gross margin for a hardware company is a very bad things and everyone is trying to figure out if it is temporary or permanent. And then the losing of market share bring up even more question about the viability of the ecosystem in the next 5 to 6 years... What is not to worry about Apple the stock this day?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Don't_Worry,_Be_Happy.ogg



On the other hand, if you own Apple stock, "worry" would seem appropriate.

AidenShaw said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Don't_Worry,_Be_Happy.ogg



On the other hand, if you own Apple stock, "worry" would seem appropriate.

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heh heh, I am an ex-Apple option holder . So the stress level is relatively low this day... I would love to create more stress by getting in the mix again ) I owned an Ipad 3 and I went and play with a mini in Apple store today.. It is definitely a winner in my book. My wife who only use the Ipad occasionally commented how light the mini is...

damitssam said:

Panic on the street. Probably hedge funds dumping all their stock after buying them early on in the year. Or couple be capital gains issue, although November is bit early to start dumping.

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Maybe not too early for cap gains sales this year, when the coin flip has not yet taken place over which party gets to drive the bus over the fiscal cliff and which will just stand there saying "Awesome, I knew it would look like this!" and no one is sure how the gains tax will look by the time the wreckage comes to rest. I don't intend that as a political remark, just observation of uncertainty.

Anyway the funds will be back picking Apple up again before the January earnings release. Now that the Chinese patent thing is setlled over the name of iPad, that market in China will boom. That plus the latest round of nifty gift launches in time for Christmas , Apple stock could be an attractive buy.

That stock is too rich for my blood, though. Not because I think it won't go higher. It's just that I missed buying it at 13 a long time ago, so when I see it in middle triple digits I just think whoa, too late to buy that thing low now, baby! Of course it's all relative. Still, I stick to buying their gear nowadays. It doesn't keep me awake at night except when I forget to cover the MBP's blinkin' sleep light.

Compared to their 365 day high:

Apple is down 25%
Intel is down 30%
Google is down 15%
HP is down 56%
Facebook is down 40%
Microsoft is down 19%
Amazon is down 12%

See a pattern here? It's not just Apple. The market isn't that excited about tech stocks right now. Soon enough, Wall Street will scare the day traders and weekend warriors out, and buy everything at lows and make a killing.

Stock market is a very riskable place .

I can not understand when what is happen .

wikus said:

People are getting tired of Apple, just like they got tired of Microsoft. Apple's time as the megalomaniac company is coming to an end. Thank god.

I like to see some flavour on store shelves and have many companys prosper and battle it out with innovation.

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Thanks for the laugh, funniest thing I've heard for in a while. Got to love armchair pundits