Google to Take on Apple with Open AirPlay Alternative

It's unfortunate Apple wants to keep its toys to itself all the time. Airplay, Facetime, iMessage, they keep coming up with these great communication protocols but instead of opening them up to 3rd party implementations, they use them to lock you further into their ecosystem. Open alternatives that are device/vendor agnostic are quite welcome. It's too bad that often times though, Apple simply refuses to implement these (though often they also do) basically causing fragmentation in the market.

It's really sad that in 2012, we're still stuck with format wars/protocol wars where the devices you choose prevent other choices of devices on the market. We built something like the Internet in the '60s, anyone can talk over it using IP as a routing protocol and TCP or UDP on the transport layer. Tim Berner's Lee made HTTP a reality in the '90s and now tons of devices, of all shapes and sizes, can render content written in HTML. If all these advances had followed the closed eco-system model Microsoft pushed back then or that Apple is pushing now, we wouldn't have this great communication/entertainment/education platform we have today.

mentaluproar said:

It isn't like Apple doesn't understand this concept. They did it with with webkit.

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Apple didn't open source webkit out of the goodness of their heart. They had to because of the license (LGPL) on the KHTML code which is the basis of Webkit. Webkit is not an Apple born project, it was born and raised by the KDE project. Apple forked their code base to make WebKit.

KnightWRX said:

It's unfortunate Apple wants to keep its toys to itself all the time. Airplay, Facetime, iMessage, they keep coming up with these great communication protocols but instead of opening them up to 3rd party implementations, they use them to lock you further into their ecosystem. Open alternatives that are device/vendor agnostic are quite welcome. It's too bad that often times though, Apple simply refuses to implement these (though often they also do) basically causing fragmentation in the market.

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Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.

I mean why would apple want to lose money in standardising their products?

steve119 said:

Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.

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Yeah, iMessage is really going to hurt SMS, especially since Apple's market share of the entire cellphone market is right up there in the triple digits.

I have basically 3 people around me that I can iMessage. Others are using Android/WinMo/Dumb phones or don't have data plans on their iPhones.

steve119 said:

I mean why would apple want to lose money in standardising their products?

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I don't give a damn about Apple making/losing money. I'm not a shareholder. I'd every much like for the products I buy from Apple to be able to interoperate with devices from other vendors though.

Thank goodness, like I said, Apple still does implement open standards in a wide breadth of areas. It's just a few key areas they seem to lock theirs products to.

Why should G. care

landroverz7 said:

Google first update your youtube app and make it a universal app with support for iPhone 5 widescreen and ipad retina screens also fix the airplay and add background audio. After that you can think about your google devices.

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Why should they even care about iOS? Latest marketshare-numbers give them 70%. With a "Google-AirPlay" they give one more reason to buy an android device. And btw: frankly I don't think it would be any problem for G. to release an iOS universal app for Youtube or a Maps-app. They just dont want to. And as we had (and on iOS<6.0 still have) a fully functioning app until recently, I think Apple is to blame here for taking that away from us.

KnightWRX said:

Apple didn't open source webkit out of the goodness of their heart. They had to because of the license (LGPL) on the KHTML code which is the basis of Webkit. Webkit is not an Apple born project, it was born and raised by the KDE project. Apple forked their code base to make WebKit.

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You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.

Apple has a long history of open source software: Webkit, Calendar Server, LLVM, quicktime streaming server, GCD, Bonjour, amongst them.

A lot of them were Apple's own technology they put uder open source licence and usually in even more open licence than GPL (apache).

Not to say that you deliberately skip the part on the fact tha KHTML was almost not used anymore when Apple took it and bring it to mainstream...

But hey, Haters gonna hate.

na1577 said:

Companies should spend more time innovating instead of competing for the sake of competing. How does Google plan to improve this concept?

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Maybe they bought the rights to BETA and 8-track!

BlueParadox said:

As long as I can watch TANGLED without a problem then count me in.

But seriously, how about a better desktop mirroring app to get around Apple's restrictions within 10.8 of mid-last Macs and onwards. Third party app 'Parrot' ain't so good.

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Those restrictions are actually Intel's and the content providers. But don't let that stop you from blaming Apple for everything.

A good open standard is needed. When I upgrade my TV in the coming years, I will want a unit capable interacting with any platform. For example, I want all of my friends. not only the "special-ones" with Apple devices, to share something on my TV, if they want. It will NOT be Apple TV, because, knowing Apple, it will be super restricted and compatible only with Apple latest devices.

I'm fully into Apple ecosystem, I have MacBook Pro, iPad, iPhone 4S (waiting for my iPhone5 now) and Apple TV (3rd gen). But honestly I'm getting sick of these restrictions, walls and ever increasing nickel-and-diming. The worst part - even within Apple own ecosystem there are ridiculous restrictions and a bit older devices are intentionally being crippled. For example - I was unpleasantly surprised, that my friend with iPhone 4 could not play video to my Apple TV 3. Only audio, because video streaming "is not supported on this device". PATHETIC! I don't believe for a second, that iPhone 4 is not technically capable of sending a youtube video to Apple TV. This is simply an artificial restriction of older device. Mind you, a device you can still buy brand new from Apple today. I'm getting more and more pissed about Apple. The greed is gradually becoming THE defining characteristics of Apple. I was a happly "Apple tax" payer, because I knew my quality made device "will just work", will work for a long time and be supported for a long time. This is no longer true. Today, when I buy a new Apple product, I already see how in the near future it will be quickly made second-tier and then soon after dropped. For example, 1st gen iPad mini. Just wait and see, soon it will be very outdated and limited.

Sorry for the rant. As a long time loyal Apple user I just can't hold this in me anymore.

Wasn't Apple TV a hobby project for Apple anyway? Didn't it stay a "hobby" for more than 6 years? Why would I ever give any money out to buy a hobby device when there are companies out there taking the question very seriously?

Mr.damien said:

You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.

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It took me literally 2 seconds to find this.

Wikipedia must hate Apple too, huh? Lying about such things. olol H8rz gon H8!

Mr.damien said:

Not to say that you deliberately skip the part on the fact tha KHTML was almost not used anymore when Apple took it and bring it to mainstream...

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It's previous popularity (or lack thereof) doesn't change the fact that Webkit started its life as a GPL'ed technology. Hence the reason why they had to release it as an open standard. There's no hate going on here, genius. Just simple facts.

steve119 said:

Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.

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I've read something different: e-mails, Facebook and universal messengers like WhatsApp have caused a decline. My friends are actually not using iMessage anymore because why should they when they can use WhatsApp and send messages to all of their friends with smartphones?

KnightWRX said:

Yeah, iMessage is really going to hurt SMS, especially since Apple's market share of the entire cellphone market is right up there in the triple digits.

I have basically 3 people around me that I can iMessage. Others are using Android/WinMo/Dumb phones or don't have data plans on their iPhones.



I don't give a damn about Apple making/losing money. I'm not a shareholder. I'd every much like for the products I buy from Apple to be able to interoperate with devices from other vendors though.

Thank goodness, like I said, Apple still does implement open standards in a wide breadth of areas. It's just a few key areas they seem to lock theirs products to.

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Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?

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Bezetos said:

I've read something different: e-mails, Facebook and universal messengers like WhatsApp have caused a decline. My friends are actually not using iMessage anymore because why should they when they can use WhatsApp and send messages to all of their friends with smartphones?

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PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular? the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.

steve119 said:

Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?

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PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular? the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.

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Here's what you're missing (in my opinion). If I am going to message someone - I don't want to have to worry about what device they have. So if it's a choice between iMessage and WhatsApp - which one am I going to use. And if I am not using Apple's implementation - they are spending a lot of money to "host" such a service that doesn't get used. If they opened it up to be cross device - then they would "own" the messaging space. The CUSTOMER no longer has to think about who they are sending a message to.

As for iMessage resorting to text messaging if someone doesn't have iMessage. Great. Only the best perk of iMessage is that it doesn't require a texting plan. So now you're potentially costing the person you're sending a message too (or yourself) for that message.

Again - another reason why I (for example) use WhatsApp and never iMessage. Not to mention WhatsApp hasn't gone down even remotely as iMessage. Seems more reliable than iMessage. And has more functionality than iMessage.

And the same for FaceTime. Don't use it. Same reason. I use Tango and/or Skype. And the perk for me besides not having to worry about what phone is on the other end - I can also do it with my current unlimited ATT plan over LTE.

Mr.damien said:

You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.

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My claim of what ? Of Webkit being based on KHTML ? Yes, I can back it up, it's a very well known fact. Here's the Mailing list post on KDE's mailing lists for Apple's release of WebKit that talks of the changes they made in KHTML/KJS :

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=104196912316326&w=2

KHTML is a LGPL licensed library. The LGPL forces you to release the source code modifications you make to the library itself, but softens up the requirements for software linked against your library (a full-on GPL'ed library being linked to your project forces your project to also be licensed under the GPL).

Webkit being a direct modification of the KHTML codebase, Apple had no choice but to abide by the LGPL.

But what claims can't I back up here ? What hate ? Facts. Cold, unemotional facts. No love, no hate. Notice I haven't dug up the history of bad relations that occurred after this between the KDE project and Apple based on their failure to cooperate... another topic not related to open sourcing products or open standards, and thus off topic for this thread.

Ad hominems. Insults. Why can't you people just argue the arguments, not the posters ?

steve119 said:

PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular?

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I did not say that.

(...) the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.

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...but if I DON'T want to send a text message, I still have to use a separate app to send a message to a person without iMessage. So why not use that app all the time?

steve119 said:

Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?

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Vendor lock-in a poor way of making money. It only really works when you hold a monopoly position on a market and then use lack of interoperability to artifically sustain it.

As a consumer, in a highly competitive market, closed standards that promote vendor lock-in hurt me. That is why I care. And that is why you should also care. Apple's bottom line doesn't come into play in our lives as non-shareholders and frankly, these little gimmicky closed standards aren't what is actually moving devices Apple sells.

I'll stick to promoting the use of interoperable open standards.

Iluv open standards. They are the best.

steve119 said:

PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular?

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So because your friends use it then its popular?

Your anecdotal evidence does not trump anyone elses. And it doesn't change the facts : iMessage is not universal, it's not device agnostic, and thus it's of limited value. It's a great idea, a great implementation, it's just limited to Apple owning circles. Unless all your friends are Apple users and using Apple gear exclusively.

samcraig said:

Here's what you're missing (in my opinion). If I am going to message someone - I don't want to have to worry about what device they have. So if it's a choice between iMessage and WhatsApp - which one am I going to use. And if I am not using Apple's implementation - they are spending a lot of money to "host" such a service that doesn't get used. If they opened it up to be cross device - then they would "own" the messaging space. The CUSTOMER no longer has to think about who they are sending a message to.

As for iMessage resorting to text messaging if someone doesn't have iMessage. Great. Only the best perk of iMessage is that it doesn't require a texting plan. So now you're potentially costing the person you're sending a message too (or yourself) for that message.

Again - another reason why I (for example) use WhatsApp and never iMessage. Not to mention WhatsApp hasn't gone down even remotely as iMessage. Seems more reliable than iMessage. And has more functionality than iMessage.

And the same for FaceTime. Don't use it. Same reason. I use Tango and/or Skype. And the perk for me besides not having to worry about what phone is on the other end - I can also do it with my current unlimited ATT plan over LTE.

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to be honest I do have unlimited text, so that is not an issue for me either way.

Sure!y eveyone has to have whatsapp on their phone, I have a few people on my phone with bricks so that solution is less of an option than iMessage.

At least I can group my texts, and it will send to imessage users and text without having to open a different app. I've never used whatsapp but does it allow you to do that?

BlueParadox said:

As long as I can watch TANGLED without a problem then count me in.

But seriously, how about a better desktop mirroring app to get around Apple's restrictions within 10.8 of mid-last Macs and onwards. Third party app 'Parrot' ain't so good.

Click to expand...

You do know that this is a hardware feature and not an Apple limitation, that is why Airparrot is crap unless you have a kick ass spec mac

steve119 said:

to be honest I do have unlimited text, so that is not an issue for me either way.

Sure!y eveyone has to have whatsapp on their phone, I have a few people on my phone with bricks so that solution is less of an option than iMessage.

At least I can group my texts, and it will send to imessage users and text without having to open a different app. I've never used whatsapp but does it allow you to do that?

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"In addition to basic messaging WhatsApp users can create groups, send each other unlimited images, video and audio media messages."

You can also send contacts via whatsapp and also map locations.

KnightWRX said:

So because your friends use it then its popular?

Your anecdotal evidence does not trump anyone elses. And it doesn't change the facts : iMessage is not universal, it's not device agnostic, and thus it's of limited value. It's a great idea, a great implementation, it's just limited to Apple owning circles. Unless all your friends are Apple users and using Apple gear exclusively.

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Who is trying to trump anyone? Its my opinion, if you don't like it then thats your problem.

I think its quite funny that you are throwing your toys out of the pram because my opinion differs from yours. I have a few apple iPhone users, friends and family that use it.

You have not answered my question neither.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to lie to make you feel better.

Oletros said:

It is not for Google TV, it is compatible with almost all smart TV's out there

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How is that possible if it hasn't even been released yet?

samcraig said:

"In addition to basic messaging WhatsApp users can create groups, send each other unlimited images, video and audio media messages."

You can also send contacts via whatsapp and also map locations.

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Ok but can you combine text messages with whats app, i.e. you have friends with old phones, and so you can send messages combined with whatsapp?

My argument evolves around ease of sending a message to both sets of users without switching from app to app and typing the same message?