HP market cap is down to 29.4B (now $23.0B). AAPL could buy it and transform some of the enterprise stuff to emphasize compatibility with iOS and OSX. Probably some helpful real estate assets as well.
Rocketman
Rocketman
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Businesses who sell high-quality products will survive - and often excel - through both bad times and good.
The companies who jeopardize themselves (Sony, Dell, etc.) do so by turning to lower-quality products in exchange for greater volume. Never a good idea in the long run.
It's also hard to call, say, an iMac a "luxury item" when it sells for less than the equivalent product did 15 years ago (not even adjusting for inflation). That's not luxury. That's maintaining your high quality standards while your competitors slash each others throats with cheap junk.
Happens all the time the big investment houses or market makers as they are called get their analysts and brokers to put out a lot of bad news to depress a stock. The small investors panic and start to dump their holding while the big boys wait for the price to get as low as they want before gradually increasing their holding. When the the time is right they then get the analysts and brokers to change to a positive spin and watch the profits roll in. This has always happened and always will. You have to look past the tom toms beating in the streat to figure out what is really going on.
Only two problems with your analysis. First, what you describe is a federal crime. Second, "small investors" don't drive markets, the institutional investors do. So I'd say that you haven't figured out anything.
You seem to have misunderstood my point, the large institutions are driving this but rely on scaring up the small investors to help lower the stock prices. This normally goes as follows, large investors dump their stock at current high price and then the analysts start to put out some FUD. The small investors panic because the price has fallen already because the big inverters have dumped stock. This causes the price to fall even further and when it reaches the price the big investors want they start to buy in and the price starts to rise again, then the analysts suddenly start to put a positive spin on the stock and it goes up even more as the small inverters start to buy in again. Analysts putting out negative analysis is perfectly legal because they always say its only their opinion of some fact or other. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote more carefully before coming out with insulting comments, I used to work for large institutional investment houses and know exactly how this works. I think its you that doesn't understand.
You seem to have misunderstood my point, the large institutions are driving this but rely on scaring up the small investors to help lower the stock prices. This normally goes as follows, large investors dump their stock at current high price and then the analysts start to put out some FUD. The small investors panic because the price has fallen already because the big inverters have dumped stock. This causes the price to fall even further and when it reaches the price the big investors want they start to buy in and the price starts to rise again, then the analysts suddenly start to put a positive spin on the stock and it goes up even more as the small inverters start to buy in again. Analysts putting out negative analysis is perfectly legal because they always say its only their opinion of some fact or other. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote more carefully before coming out with insulting comments, I used to work for large institutional investment houses and know exactly how this works. I think its you that doesn't understand.
Actually, he is very knowledgeable in this sort of thing and has been over the many years I have been a part of this forum
No, I didn't misunderstand what you said. You described a process where analysts collude to invent bad news for a stock and sell on that news and then presumably invent some good news and buy. That would be a clear and apparent federal crime if it actually happened, which presumably you know if you'd worked for an investment company. What's more "panicking" small investors wouldn't have much impact anyway, since small investors make up such a relatively small part of the market. So I totally understand. What you describe is illegal.
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What he describes is illegal, very clearly. Anyone caught doing what he describes would go to jail.
No, I didn't misunderstand what you said. You described a process where analysts collude to invent bad news for a stock and sell on that news and then presumably invent some good news and buy. That would be a clear and apparent federal crime if it actually happened, which presumably you know if you'd worked for an investment company. What's more "panicking" small investors wouldn't have much impact anyway, since small investors make up such a relatively small part of the market. So I totally understand. What you describe is illegal.
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What he describes is illegal, very clearly. Anyone caught doing what he describes would go to jail.
Actually, he is very knowledgeable in this sort of thing and has been over the many years I have been a part of this forum
C'mon, alot of people here on this site are blaming the investment firms and their Pump and Dump schemes.
It couldn't possibly be the overall condition of the stock market, Apple's shrinking margins, their slowdown in growth, the uncertainty of the Chinese Carrier deals and investor emotions now could it? No... it was the big bad wall street firms manipulating the stock! It was on this website's forums so it has to be true.
For the largest market cap stock to move appreciably in any direction requires LARGE buyers or sellers. We recently saw large sellers. Tax motivated selling, rebalancing after large gains compared to other stocks in their portfolio (which is of questionable logic). I have always wondered why buy and hold investors don't simply install 3-5% stop-losses and repurchase near the bottom of corrections. I suppose that is tax motivated as well, otherwise common sense would prevail. Nothing simpler or stupider (in a good way) than a stop-loss. Here's a chart. Hardly anyone sold at the top BTW. Check the volume figures. Suspended disbelief (stock RDF).I thought Apple was at $700 -- what happened??? They are calling $559 a "surge" on the up-direction??? Did I miss something? When the stock tank so suddenly??? And why? I thought Apple execs were selling their stock now because it was over $700. I guess I am out of the loop.
I bought quite a lot at 86, literally during the iPhone demo in January 07. I sold HALF when it got to 170, paying for the original investment. Wish I had let it ride, but that wouldn't have been smart decision.
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One would hope everyone that isn't doing this for a living is investing in an IRA. Mines in a ROTH thank goodness.
Maybe my comment has caused him some confusion but spin put on facts by analysts is what causes the FUD not inaccurate or illegal reporting. If an analyst produces a report with wild over or under estimation of company performance that is not illegal its just opinion, not illegal in any way. How the market reacts to that is then what my message is trying to convey. Big investors manipulate the market using all kinds of tactics like this. Push the stock down with FUD take a position then wait for good news to push the stock back up. Half the rumours you see on this site start this way, analyst says....
C'mon, alot of people here on this site are blaming the investment firms and their Pump and Dump schemes.
It couldn't possibly be the overall condition of the stock market, Apple's shrinking margins, their slowdown in growth, the uncertainty of the Chinese Carrier deals and investor emotions now could it? No... it was the big bad wall street firms manipulating the stock! It was on this website's forums so it has to be true.
You described a process where analysts collude to invent bad news for a stock and sell on that news and then presumably invent some good news and buy.
No confusion here. By your definition, essentially all trading in stocks represents a "manipulation," since everyone is trading on what they know or think they know about the future (much more the latter than the former). Since this is fundamentally why stocks rise or fall, it's all a big manipulation, right?
If any brokerage firm puts out information that they know to be inaccurate or misleading, let alone false or collusive, and moreover if they profit by that information, then they are liable for prosecution by the SEC. And since these brokerage firms are responsible to their clients, it's unwise in the extreme for them to mislead anyone, and not especially for their own trading gains. That's just a bad business on the one hand, and a felony on the other.
Now, if you are also saying that the brokerage firms and the institutional traders are way ahead of us poor retail investors, then I agree with you 100%. In fact I've said that already, by way of advising everyone who isn't investing tens of millions or more of other people's money to never stare into the hairy eyeball of the market and pretend like you have any control over it. At best, we retail investors are along for the ride, so we have to remain calm and not be herded. I suggest, try not looking at your portfolio at all for a month or two at a time, and see if you can stand it. If you can't, then probably you are a good candidate mutual funds, or maybe even certificates of deposit.
You have to notice that nobody called it a conspiracy when AAPL shot up 15% in just a few weeks. Ah, but it was a completely different story when AAPL retraced those gains along with a general market decline, not to mention, a missed earnings report, sales of the iPhone 5 that fell short of the most optimistic projections, and a less than blockbuster reception for the iPad mini. This even before we get to Apple's guidance for next quarter, which if it turned out to be true, would represent the first year-over-year decline in earnings since... would it be 2001? But no, none of that stuff affects the mood of traders so much as some blowhard analyst's opinion, because otherwise we wouldn't know about that other stuff.
Step carefully - the Apple fans don't take kindly to rational thinking here.
In any case, I think I will stick to my policy of only responding to arguments I've actually made. It tends to wind discussions down pretty quickly.
No confusion here. By your definition, essentially all trading in stocks represents a "manipulation," since everyone is trading on what they know or think they know about the future (much more the latter than the former). Since this is fundamentally why stocks rise or fall, it's all a big manipulation, right?
If any brokerage firm puts out information that they know to be inaccurate or misleading, let alone false or collusive, and moreover if they profit by that information, then they are liable for prosecution by the SEC. And since these brokerage firms are responsible to their clients, it's unwise in the extreme for them to mislead anyone, and not especially for their own trading gains. That's just a bad business on the one hand, and a felony on the other.
Now, if you are also saying that the brokerage firms and the institutional traders are way ahead of us poor retail investors, then I agree with you 100%. In fact I've said that already, by way of advising everyone who isn't investing tens of millions or more of other people's money to never stare into the hairy eyeball of the market and pretend like you have any control over it. At best, we retail investors are along for the ride, so we have to remain calm and not be herded. I suggest, try not looking at your portfolio at all for a month or two at a time, and see if you can stand it. If you can't, then probably you are a good candidate mutual funds, or maybe even certificates of deposit.
What puzzles me in this conversation is that with all this talk of the evil analysts manipulating the news, on the last earnings report, when Apple dropped significantly, all I heard on CNBC was "This doesn't make any damned sense."
When, ironically, it made perfect sense. I have rarely seen any stock that didn't drop when the company failed to beat the street, unless the guidance for the next quarter was so strong that it mitigated any fears of a declining rate of earnings growth. Unfortunately Apple's guidance was not overly optimistic, even taking into account their history of offering very conservative guidance. All in all, Apple had a pretty awful month, and the markets overall also had a bad month, taking the averages back to where they were in mid-summer. AAPL isn't immune from either bad news or market pull-backs and not especially when they hit several walls at once.
But again and again, I have to notice that none of the conspiracy theorists address these issues, or even acknowledge their existence. But that's the appeal of conspiracy theories -- since they can never be totally disproved, they must be correct. It's impossible to argue with this sort of logic.
I see...So was the subprime mortgage debacle just another conspiracy theory? Some of us crazies think it actually happened.