That's why I said I think it proves how bad the ACC is. I'm not trying to change things, sorry if it gave that impression.
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2012 College Football Thread
- Thread starter utahman130
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That's why I said I think it proves how bad the ACC is. I'm not trying to change things, sorry if it gave that impression.
Nick Saban doesn't like Florida's path to the BCS, apparently.
Weird how it works when the shoe's on the other foot.
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gato...ban-does-not-like-florida’s-path-to-bcs-game/
Weird how it works when the shoe's on the other foot.
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gato...ban-does-not-like-florida’s-path-to-bcs-game/
Big football
Maryland and rutgers would have trouble competing in the Moutain West Confrence let alone a real football confrence they better stick to basketball or maybe a greased pig contest.
c'mon manI'm from the midwest and have lived in NYC area for 6 years now. If you're telling people NYC is the same as Ohio in a saturday night you're lying to yourself.
rutgers is not really a football school They won't compete in the BIG they'll play with Illinois and Minnesota that's about it (also basketball schools)
An NASCAR isn't popular???? have you seen the 100,000+ crowds at their events???
Maryland and rutgers would have trouble competing in the Moutain West Confrence let alone a real football confrence they better stick to basketball or maybe a greased pig contest.
What a handle
A true college football fan need not hide behind redoubtable nicknames or handles like Ignatius MacDog or some other alias. My only nickname is Johnny.Why duck and run why hide come on out in the sunlight boys its clear out here you can damn near see the horizon thats 18 miles away on a flat sufface or about two miles at the speed of sound, but wait your in the sec well that it that makes it clear then.
A true college football fan need not hide behind redoubtable nicknames or handles like Ignatius MacDog or some other alias. My only nickname is Johnny.Why duck and run why hide come on out in the sunlight boys its clear out here you can damn near see the horizon thats 18 miles away on a flat sufface or about two miles at the speed of sound, but wait your in the sec well that it that makes it clear then.
So Louisville is headed to the ACC and the league thinks it's safe.
We're headed for four, 16 teams leagues. We know the B1G and SEC will make it, and we know the Pac-12 will be okay. The question becomes, will it be the ACC or the Big 12 that survives?
FSU and Clemson still want out of the ACC and word leaked this morning that the SEC and B1G are after UNC and Duke, so it would seem that even with the recent additions, the ACC is in trouble.
The Big 12, however, will have some work to do to get to 16, even if they get FSU and Clemson. Add to that the idea that there aren't really many schools left out west that are viable additions to the Pac, and it seems that the UT-TTech-OU-OSU move out west could still have a little life. Or if the Pac softens their stance on adding religious schools, might TCU have the advantage over Tech? Geography and academics would favor the Frogs.
We're headed for four, 16 teams leagues. We know the B1G and SEC will make it, and we know the Pac-12 will be okay. The question becomes, will it be the ACC or the Big 12 that survives?
FSU and Clemson still want out of the ACC and word leaked this morning that the SEC and B1G are after UNC and Duke, so it would seem that even with the recent additions, the ACC is in trouble.
The Big 12, however, will have some work to do to get to 16, even if they get FSU and Clemson. Add to that the idea that there aren't really many schools left out west that are viable additions to the Pac, and it seems that the UT-TTech-OU-OSU move out west could still have a little life. Or if the Pac softens their stance on adding religious schools, might TCU have the advantage over Tech? Geography and academics would favor the Frogs.
So crazy. Idk why the SEC would want Florida State and Clemson since they already have UF and South Carolina, at least if they're trying to enlarge their footprint like the BigTen.
Big Ten adding Duke and or North Carolina would be insane.
This is all pretty unreal.
Edit*
Heard it here first. If Maryland wins the lawsuit and gets out without paying $50 million, the ACC is done. Florida State and Clemson to the Big 12. Duke or NC to the Big (maybe SEC, and maybe a split) and if that's the case, probably BC to the Big Ten or a Virginia team (maybe Va Tech, unless they go to the SEC). The storm is coming ladies and gentleman. And it's not looking good for the ACC or Big East.
The SEC and Big Ten are going to pick them apart, then the Big 12 is going to get the left overs.
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Maryland won't win their case, I think at best they'll be able to settle it for a reduced amount... say, $25 million. Given that the UnderArmour owner has cashed out $65 million of stock, I don't think Maryland will be sweating the exit fee... even if it is $50 million.
From what I've heard/read from people who are connected to the B10 office... the crown jewels of B10 expansion would be Oklahoma and UNC. Won't happend because OK and OKST are likely a package deal... and while the B10 could finagle OK, the Presidents wouldn't be able to justify OKST. UNC is also a package deal with Duke, but from what I've heard from both Duke and UNC alumni... there is a HUGE amount of on-the-ground resistance to joining the B10. I think the B10 would gladly take Duke if it meant they could add a school and athletic program like UNC... but I don't think it would happen.
Personally, I think Virginia would be a great get. Decent football, decent basketball and other non-revenue sports... and would really lock down the DC market with Maryland.
Georgia Tech would also be a nice addition, solid academics and the Atlanta TV market... but from what I've heard from GT alums, there would be a huge amount of resistance to joining a "Yankee" conference.
I think it all depends on what the B10's endgame is... is it to de-stabliize their primary regional competitor to the point that the SEC and Big 12 start picking off schools from the ACC to fill their own 16-team conferences? Would that then give Notre Dame the final push to join the B10? Perhaps... it does make sense if ND is the endgame of all of this expansion. In that case, maybe you add BC and ND and call it a day. Or maybe the goal is just to **** with ND for their refusal to join the B10 and just contribute to the downfall of the ACC and freeze them out of the 4x16-team super conferences? Who knows...
I'm much more optimistic about Maryland's case because I think they'll be able to demonstrate being held hostage for such a high exit fee.
The rest of what you've said though is pretty solid. It really just is going to come down to this case first, then with that outcome the Big is going to start picking of schools. It can't be helped. Money wins. I doubt the B10 has a vendetta against ND though, but it definitely sees the ACC as a direct competitor, but has proven it has the capability to pick members off at will.
I think after this case ****'s going to get real (maybe before). Idk about Virginia. It's a good school, athletically they are no better than Rutgers or Maryland (at least in football and basketball), so I would see the B10 going for Virginia Tech if anything.
Next question though, is who gets Florida State, Clemson, Miami, and Ga Tech. None of these are good additions to the SEC, so... Big East? Big 12? Can the Pac 12 pick off Texas, Tech, and Ok/OK state?
There wouldn't be any resistance by Ga Tech to join the B10 based on whether it's yankee or not. That's conjecture.
Pure speculation on my part... but I think the SEC smells blood in the ACC water and picks off two schools to get to 16, and the Big-12 outlasts a weakened ACC and picks up six schools (not all from the ACC necessarily) to get to 16. The Big Ten obviously picks up two more schools.
Member schools as of the current climate in regular text, potential schools in italics
ACC as of today
BC
Clemson (SEC)
Duke (B12)
Florida State (SEC)
GT (B12)
Miami (SEC)
NCST (B12)
UNC (B12)
Virginia (B12)
VTech (B12)
Wake Forest
----
Louisville (B12)
Notre Dame (B10)
Pitt
Syracuse
First thing that happens is that the SEC poaches FSU and Clemson. The SEC's main concerns do not lie with television markets, as unlike the B10, believe that increased competition will result in better TV contracts. As such, they are looking to preserve and promote as many natural rivalries as they can.
Smelling blood in the water, the Big 12 quickly secures Virginia Tech. Virginia, not wanting to be left behind, quickly follows.
With the departures of Virginia and VTech, the ACC is in complete panic mode.
Vanderbilt is not-so-subtly told by the SEC to find a better fit elsewhere. Vanderbilt applies to the Big Ten, and the Presidents wanting to show their constituents that not everything is about sports... accepts due to the academic stature of Vandy and the growing Nashville market. The SEC puts out feelers to Miami, and Miami returns the attention favorably. The SEC is now done with expansion.
Louisville, with no long-standing loyalties to the ACC makes overtures to the Big 12 to rescue them. The Big 12 tells them "Maybe, we have bigger fish to fry first." and makes a play for UNC. UNC looks at the crumbling ACC and realizes that they should have joined the Big Ten when they had the chance and accepts. Duke follows. As does NC State, thus preserving their long-standing North Carolina Research Triangle.
Georgia Tech, in a panic, applies to both the Big 12 and the Big Ten. The Big Ten, sensing that Notre Dame is now trapped unless they wish to be frozen out of the 64-team mega-association, declines their application. The Big 12, now has the choice between Louisville and Georgia Tech. The Big 12 not-so-subtly tells Iowa State that they no longer have a seat at the big kids table. Iowa State sues in an attempt to prevent expulsion, but as the vote of the remainder of the Big 12 is unanimous is eventually forced out. Louisville and Georgia Tech are invited to join the Big 12. The Big 12 is now done.
The PAC-12, unable to convince southern and east coast schools to join, invites BYU. With existing athletics relationships in certain non-revenue sports, Boise State and San Diego State are also asked to join. Notre Dame is also asked to join, but cannot justify the time zone differences and increased travel costs over playing against teams in the Big East and ACC. Short one member to get to the magic number of 16 teams, the PAC-12 takes __________ as their last school (New Mexico, UNLV, Houston, SMU, etc.)
Notre Dame, finally realizing at the 11th hour that they are about to be frozen out, except by lawsuit, reluctantly applies to the Big Ten. The Big Ten accepts Notre Dame's application.
Big Ten
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Ohio State
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northtwestern
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers
Wisconsin
Vanderbilt
ND
SEC
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Missouri
South Carolia
Tennessee
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt (gets kicked out and leaves for the Big Ten)
FSU
Clemson
Miami
PAC-12
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Utah
Washington
Washington State
BYU
Boise State
San Diego State
Random
Big-12
Baylor
Iowa State (kicked out)
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas
Texas Tech
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
UNC
Duke
NCST
Louisville
Georgia Tech
I think geographically, it would make more sense to split up the Big-12 to the PAC-12 and the ACC... but I think the ACC will be hard-pressed to poach a Big-12 school given its relative perceived weakness as a conference surviving to the 64-team mega-association.
Anyways, just a thought while waiting for some work to finish.
Note that I wrote that UNC and Duke jumped AFTER Virginia and VTech already did. With the ACC in disarray, UNC/Duke might be more willing to jump at an opportunity to join a stronger conference.
And like I said, it makes more sense geographically to split some of the Big 12 teams in to the ACC and the PAC-12... but perception often being reality, the Big 12 might be able to more easily convince an ACC team or two to jump (like VA/VTech) than the reverse.
If it were the Big 12 crumbling...
Baylor (to the PAC-12, package deal with Texas)
Iowa State
Kansas (to the ACC due to existing basketball rivalries)
Kansas State (to the ACC, package deal with Kansas)
Oklahoma (to the PAC-12)
Oklahoma State (to the PAC-12)
TCU
Texas (to the PAC-12)
Texas Tech (to the SEC)
West Virginia (to the SEC)
Stronger in what? Duke and UNC don't have big football programs, they rules the ACC for basketball, why would they give that up? The ACC much like the Big East are basketball strong conferences. The schools need to realize that they will get their lunch eaten if they think they can compete in football.
Uh, football?
Football is what's driving the enormous TV contracts that we're seeing. Not basketball.
Look at what sport is driving the revenues for the highest-grossing Athletic Departments, these are 2010 numbers but still relevant. What sport dominates that list?
http://businessofcollegesports.com/...ketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/
Hint: It's football.
These schools won't give up the history just for football money. They can make more just on basketball alone. Plus what conference will want them for football?
I could see the ACC going after UConn just for the basketball program.
That's your opinion. I have my opinion.
But the facts are that football is driving the college athletics economy.
Plus, plenty of conferences would overlook UNC/Duke's relative weakness in football for the guaranteed boost in academic stature they would provide... given greater access to money for infrastructure and staff improvements, it's not hard to imagine significant improvements in their football programs over time. Which would then lead to an increase in the strength of their new/old conference, which would then lead to an increase in TV contract money, etc.
The academics at UNC might be debatable with the grading scandal going on.
Yes football is driving it now, but at what point does the bubble burst. All this realignment will hurt the game long term. And what each conference will have 16 teams and only 4 or 5 of them will be any good?
I don't believe you will see Clemson or Florida State in the SEC
As much as the fans would like to see it, the opposition from SCarolina and Florida among others would be too much
You have to remember, the schools and conferences think differently than fans do
This is business, money and politics
As much as the fans would like to see it, the opposition from SCarolina and Florida among others would be too much
You have to remember, the schools and conferences think differently than fans do
This is business, money and politics
Sorry but what rivalries does KU have with ACC schools? None. Or are you just trying to lump KU in with Duke/UNC/ potentially Uconn?
KU and KState would have a stronger case for the Big 10 or SEC than they would with ACC imo
At any rate, the ACC is is a weaker position than the Big 12 so if anything, the ACC will dissolve as opposed to the Big 12
Existing basketball rivalries and geographic continuity. Which goes against my Football is King argument... but in the end, I think it will be Football is King but Other Things Will Factor In Too.
Kansas sure, but KState is very weak academically. Presidents would have a very hard time convincing their Regents and Board of Governers of including KState.
That's what I posted in my huge post about 4-5 posts above.
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Which is why I posted about the SEC's main motivation not being about TV markets, but rather preserving traditional rivalries that might not be able to be maintained in a 16-team super conference landscape. I also think that the SEC, being less motivated by strict TV markets to drive TV contracts, might instead take the track of increasing the strength of the conference and improving the product on the field as primary factors when it comes to TV negotiations. Hence, Clemson and FSU... and Miami.
I'm not saying that I know any more than anyone else... I don't. But the premise of my original post is:
- the ACC is perceived to be weak, as such the Big 12 is more likely to poach an ACC team or two than the reverse
- different conferences are motivated by different things... there is overlap (ie. $$$), but they might differ in how they get a larger slice of that $$$ (B10 = TV markets, SEC = football power)
You are an highly incorrect if you think OOC scheduling is the only thing that matters. Name me a school that has played 5 Top 10 teams this year, and gone 4-1 against them.
Florida last I looked had the #1 SOS so go somewhere else with that crap.
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You are picking and choosing your arguments. FSU had turnovers due to some great plays by Florida's defense. Did you even watch the game? The score, even with the late BS TD as time expired, was not as close as the score showed it was. The ref's were horribly biased while trying to protect their ACC prized cow. UF had 14 penalties for 130 some yards, while FSU had 2 for 10 yards...UF also had two catches taken away from them, one via review and the other never got reviewed which would have been big plays.
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Honestly, why would he want to go to USF?
Florida last I looked had the #1 SOS so go somewhere else with that crap.
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You are picking and choosing your arguments. FSU had turnovers due to some great plays by Florida's defense. Did you even watch the game? The score, even with the late BS TD as time expired, was not as close as the score showed it was. The ref's were horribly biased while trying to protect their ACC prized cow. UF had 14 penalties for 130 some yards, while FSU had 2 for 10 yards...UF also had two catches taken away from them, one via review and the other never got reviewed which would have been big plays.
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Honestly, why would he want to go to USF?
This image is making the rounds on the 'net and twittersphere
While I do think the winner of Bama/Dawgs will be favored against the Irish, I think it will probably be a better game than many SEC fans are willing to admit
ND has a stout defense, but I'm just not sure the Irish have enough offense against the Bama or Dawgs defense
The wet dream of the media/bloggers is Bama/Irish, but I think the Dawgs are capable of the upset
I expect the SEC Championship to either be a close game or a Bama blowout
I don't see the Dawgs winning big
They can win or lose in a close game or they can let another one get out of hand
![12600_536798739682618_2119578804_n.jpg]( "12600_536798739682618_2119578804_n.jpg")
While I do think the winner of Bama/Dawgs will be favored against the Irish, I think it will probably be a better game than many SEC fans are willing to admit
ND has a stout defense, but I'm just not sure the Irish have enough offense against the Bama or Dawgs defense
The wet dream of the media/bloggers is Bama/Irish, but I think the Dawgs are capable of the upset
I expect the SEC Championship to either be a close game or a Bama blowout
I don't see the Dawgs winning big
They can win or lose in a close game or they can let another one get out of hand
