How Apple can fix Maps

MacPro23 said:

Apple has over $110 billion in cash. I was thinking why don't they just hire people to go out with street-view cars like Google and map the roadways. They would also be able to create there own database of POI's.

They could even launch a satellite and get their own up to date imagery. I read an article that Google launched their own satellite a couple years ago.

Click to expand...

It's not about money or manpower, it's simply about time.

The amount of effort involved in accurately mapping THE WORLD is not a small task.

You can't just go in a car and "map the roadways", it's much more technical than that.

Apple thought it could buy in data from a variety of different sources and that they would end up with a class leading product, but the reality is far from that.

If they actually had a competent Maps team with set priorities, a large number of POIs would be fixed everyday given the amount of feedback/corrections sent by iOS users everyday.

But that ain't the case. People have sent the same correction for incorrect POIS 10 times and it has yet to be corrected. What does this say about Apple and their team? Seriously, why put a "Report a problem" button when you aren't keen on fixing problems in your own application??

What takes time isn't getting information from users but verifying that it is correct. I could have 10 of my friends report, incorrectly, that a rival's restaurant has closed, moved, etc. If Apple just accepted those 10 people's statements they would have made something wrong from something that was right.
And don't think people would not mis-report data - either on purpose or by accident.
If you are going to fix things - which they must - they must make sure that what they are correcting is not accurate.

Eat humble pie and pay Google the necessary dollars to get a top end implementation that has feature parity with Android...

Beeplance said:

If they actually had a competent Maps team with set priorities, a large number of POIs would be fixed everyday given the amount of feedback/corrections sent by iOS users everyday.

But that ain't the case. People have sent the same correction for incorrect POIS 10 times and it has yet to be corrected. What does this say about Apple and their team? Seriously, why put a "Report a problem" button when you aren't keen on fixing problems in your own application??

Click to expand...

What would you consider a "large number of POIs" that could be fixed in a single day? And whatever that number is, it's quite possible that they do fix that many but that it pales in comparison to "the amount of feedback/corrections sent by iOS users everyday."

Also, assuming they get many reports daily, they likely have to figure out a way to prioritize those reports, meaning that the POIs that people have sent 10 times may be part of a total of, say, 50 that potentially places it far down that priorities list compared to other reports.

The bottom line is that we don't know. We don't know how many reports they fix, how many they get, and how they deal with them in general.

Also, what CTHarrryH said:

CTHarrryH said:

What takes time isn't getting information from users but verifying that it is correct. I could have 10 of my friends report, incorrectly, that a rival's restaurant has closed, moved, etc. If Apple just accepted those 10 people's statements they would have made something wrong from something that was right.
And don't think people would not mis-report data - either on purpose or by accident.
If you are going to fix things - which they must - they must make sure that what they are correcting is not accurate.

Click to expand...

Risco said:

Eat humble pie and pay Google the necessary dollars to get a top end implementation that has feature parity with Android...

Click to expand...

Or do things your way, Apple, which certainly wouldn't strike me as out of the ordinary.

Considering the piles-o-cash that Apple has, I highly doubt their move away from Google's maps has anything to do with money. But that isn't necessarily what you were saying. It's more likely that it has to do with data, which you could argue is money these days but that's not the point, and who gets the data and then how it's used.

Apple Maps really let me down this weekend.

Risco said:

Eat humble pie and pay Google the necessary dollars to get a top end implementation that has feature parity with Android...

Click to expand...

Right, because Google withholding vital features (turn-by-turn?) had nothing to do with it...

I'm not saying Apple didn't leap before they looked, but people seem to forget that Google was partially responsible for this mess too. Apple wouldn't be so hard-pressed to build their own Maps app if Google was willing to play ball.

Risco said:

Eat humble pie and pay Google the necessary dollars to get a top end implementation that has feature parity with Android...

Click to expand...

Yes and why not change the iPhone to an Android device as well?

I don't want Apple to spend time/money on Maps.

They should just license the data from other companies.

I rather have Apple spend time/money improving the iPhone/iPad/Mac and iOS/MacOS.

hyteckit said:

I don't want Apple to spend time/money on Maps.

They should just license the data from other companies.

I rather have Apple spend time/money improving the iPhone/iPad/Mac and iOS/MacOS.

Click to expand...

That's worked out great so far...

Beeplance said:

If they actually had a competent Maps team with set priorities, a large number of POIs would be fixed everyday given the amount of feedback/corrections sent by iOS users everyday.

But that ain't the case. People have sent the same correction for incorrect POIS 10 times and it has yet to be corrected. What does this say about Apple and their team? Seriously, why put a "Report a problem" button when you aren't keen on fixing problems in your own application??

Click to expand...

That's just a small part of the larger problem. The data they've bought/licensed from TomTom is accurate for the most part. Yelp maybe not so much but it's the algorithm, the programming that is the problem. Mapping is extremely complicated especially when trying to compile information from 3 or 4 sources. This can and probably will take a couple years to sort out. While they can fix things point by point trying to do it that way would take a century if at all possible. In the end it's the algorithms they use that will pull it all together.

cyks said:

That's worked out great so far...

Click to expand...

Because they rushed it out when it was incomplete and inaccurate POI.

TedM said:

Apple Maps really let me down this weekend.

Click to expand...

Forgot you birthday?

hyteckit said:

Because they rushed it out when it was incomplete and inaccurate POI.

Click to expand...

Right...because they licensed the data from other companies, a problem that won't improve since there are practically no other companies to license from without going to Google, Nokia, or Microsoft.

cyks said:

Right...because they licensed the data from other companies, a problem that won't improve since there are practically no other companies to license from without going to Google, Nokia, or Microsoft.

Click to expand...

Garmin and TeleAtlas has been doing GPS and mapping longer than Google, Microsoft, Nokia.

hyteckit said:

Garmin and TeleAtlas has been doing GPS and mapping longer than Google, Microsoft, Nokia.

Click to expand...

I think he meant for the poi info...the amount of data Google has and the logic they have built to find the most appropriate one will be hard to ever match unless Apple decides to create/buy their own "search engine" technology.

hyteckit said:

Garmin and TeleAtlas has been doing GPS and mapping longer than Google, Microsoft, Nokia.

Click to expand...

Besides the already mentioned lack of POI, Tele Atlas was bought out by Tom Tom and closed its doors over 4 years ago.

cyks said:

Besides the already mentioned lack of POI, Tele Atlas was bought out by Tom Tom and closed its doors over 4 years ago.

Click to expand...

I know Tom Tom acquired TeleAtlas.

Apple is currently its maps from Tom Tom, or TeleAtlas map data.

You are the one who thinks there are "no other companies to license from without going to Google, Nokia, or Microsoft."

hyteckit said:

I know Tom Tom acquired TeleAtlas.

Apple is currently its maps from Tom Tom, or TeleAtlas map data.

You are the one who thinks there are "no other companies to license from without going to Google, Nokia, or Microsoft."

Click to expand...

There aren't. Most of the other mapping data providers other than those Apple are already using are either tiny and present huge integration issues since you'll have to get licences from tens of thousands of them, or are under exclusive contracts with Google, Nokia or Microsoft.

hyteckit said:

I know Tom Tom acquired TeleAtlas.

Apple is currently its maps from Tom Tom, or TeleAtlas map data.

You are the one who thinks there are "no other companies to license from without going to Google, Nokia, or Microsoft."

Click to expand...

So, you knew a company had been acquired and has since long shut its doors, but you decided to mention them as a viable alternative to what Apple is doing (even though they were bought out by Apple's current provider)? Gotcha.

The key word in what I wrote is 'other.' Since Apple is already licensing data from Tom Tom, Yelp, and a few others (and having very little success), they would need to go to other companies to get their data from. And yes, without going through Google, Nokia, or Microsoft, they'd be hard pressed to find much better data than what they already are licensing.

cyks said:

So, you knew a company had been acquired and has since long shut its doors, but you decided to mention them as a viable alternative to what Apple is doing (even though they were bought out by Apple's current provider)? Gotcha.

Click to expand...

You made it sound like TeleAtlas went bankrupt and their data no longer exist. TeleAtlas was acquire by TomTom and it's absorb into the company.

Who do you think Apple get their maps from? TomTom, which is TeleAtlas mapping data.

If it makes you happy: TomTom/TeleAtlas.

hyteckit said:

You made it sound like TeleAtlas went bankrupt and their data no longer exist. TeleAtlas was acquire by TomTom and it's absorb into the company.

Who do you think Apple get their maps from? TomTom, which is TeleAtlas mapping data.

If it makes you happy: TomTom/TeleAtlas.

Click to expand...

No, I made it sound like Apple's current mapping strategy of licensing data wasn't working...especially since they don't have many other options to choose from for licensing.

You made it sound like Tele Atlas is a viable alternative.

CTHarrryH said:

What takes time isn't getting information from users but verifying that it is correct. I could have 10 of my friends report, incorrectly, that a rival's restaurant has closed, moved, etc. If Apple just accepted those 10 people's statements they would have made something wrong from something that was right.
And don't think people would not mis-report data - either on purpose or by accident.
If you are going to fix things - which they must - they must make sure that what they are correcting is not accurate.

Click to expand...

No. But looking at the satellite images with the roads overlay you can clearly see most of the problems.

Risco said:

Eat humble pie and pay Google the necessary dollars to get a top end implementation that has feature parity with Android...

Click to expand...

I agree. Apple's goal should be to make the best possible product. No one does maps and search as well as Google....Apple should license it and give us a better product. Apple does many things better than the rest....that's why I buy their stuff. But if they really want to put out the best possible product, they should stick to what they do best and be willing to take advantage of what others do best.