Retina Macbook Air [ Will it happen on 2013? ]

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

iRCL said:
That is not a significant jump in resolution. Also, notice the review actually says "it's a bit squinty for my eyes" ..

Also that review is funny to me, it's basically saying if you want a Macbook Air but are over 40 and are convinced that you need windows, and for some reason don't want to get an MBA and install Windows on it, this is the laptop that you have been waiting 3 long years for. Except it's also a lot more money than an MBA and made out of plastic, and several months later to market. With a way worse SSD.

I mean, come on. I can't believe you actually referenced that lol

Lighter and thinner than a 13 MBA. Better resolution. Matte screen. Offers a 15in size.

It also sells for a comparable price to a comparable MBA. I mean come on. I can't believe you didn't know that. Lol

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/np900x3c-a04us-series-9-review,3285.html

TjeuV said:
That's speed-talk. I'm just trying to say that people are having expectations that are way to high. I'm loving the display on my air, very low glare and high-res. For my usage I don't need a "retina".

If you don't want to see pixels, get your eyes off the screen and sit back 30cm.

And for those that REALY need the extremely high resolution, ok, you deserve a "retina" display. But that's maybe 3-5% of all the users?

When Tim Cook comes out and shows off the rMBA you will be one of the fanboys gawking at how amazing it is. Might as well start now.

iParis · Dec 12, 2012

I want this more than anything, but I the more I think about it the more I realize it won't happen for a while. The 11 inch may also not be introduced until a few months after the 13 inch, like what happened with the rMBPs.

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

TjeuV said:
It already has a Hi-Res display. What do you people want !?!

What exactly do you consider high-res?

The cheapest iBook from 2001 had a 106 PPI display.
Now, almost 12 years later, the MBA has a 128 PPI display.

That's around a 1.5% improvement per year.
Not exactly following Moore's law is it?

It's not because the whole computer industry has stopped progress in favor of cost-reduction that Apple has to race to the bottom with them. We were long overdue for a revolution in pixel density.

I completely agree with Linus.

skaertus · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
We are already there:

http://mashable.com/2012/08/09/samsung-series-9-review/

In fact, Samsung showcased a prototype of a Series 9 with a 2560x1440 resolution which is not yet ready for mass production. And that was back in August. We should see some ultrabook with such a resolution in 2013.

There are already some ultrabooks on the market with a 1920x1080 resolution, such as the Asus Zenbook Prime, the Acer Aspire S7, the Dell XPS 12 and the soon-to-be-launched Microsoft Surface Pro, for instance. Not quite retina, but still much higher than the 1440x900 resolution of the 13" MacBook Air.

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pgiguere1 said:
What exactly do you consider high-res?

The cheapest iBook from 2001 had a 106 PPI display.
Now, almost 12 years later, the MBA has a 128 PPI display.

That's around a 1.5% improvement per year.
Not exactly following Moore's law is it?

It's not because the whole computer industry has stopped progress in favor of cost-reduction that Apple has to race to the bottom with them. We were long overdue for a revolution in pixel density.

I completely agree with Linus.

I agree. I remember when I bought my first computer back in 1993. It was a desktop PC running MS-DOS, and it had a 386 DX processor, 4 MB RAM, 120 MB of hard disk space, and a screen capable of displaying a resolution of 1024x768. Almost twenty years later, most laptops are still sold with a 1366x768 resolution, which is basically the widescreen version of the very same screen resolution I had in my first computer.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
What exactly do you consider high-res?

The cheapest iBook from 2001 had a 106 PPI display.
Now, almost 12 years later, the MBA has a 128 PPI display.

That's around a 1.5% improvement per year.
Not exactly following Moore's law is it?

It's not because the whole computer industry has stopped progress in favor of cost-reduction that Apple has to race to the bottom with them. We were long overdue for a revolution in pixel density.

I completely agree with Linus.

skaertus said:
In fact, Samsung showcased a prototype of a Series 9 with a 2560x1440 resolution which is not yet ready for mass production. And that was back in August. We should see some ultrabook with such a resolution in 2013.

There are already some ultrabooks on the market with a 1920x1080 resolution, such as the Asus Zenbook Prime, the Acer Aspire S7, the Dell XPS 12 and the soon-to-be-launched Microsoft Surface Pro, for instance. Not quite retina, but still much higher than the 1440x900 resolution of the 13" MacBook Air.

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I agree. I remember when I bought my first computer back in 1993. It was a desktop PC running MS-DOS, and it had a 386 DX processor, 4 MB RAM, 120 MB of hard disk space, and a screen capable of displaying a resolution of 1024x768. Almost twenty years later, most laptops are still sold with a 1366x768 resolution, which is basically the widescreen version of the very same screen resolution I had in my first computer.

Agree with both of you.

The Samsung prototype is very nice and suppose to hit market next year sometime from what I remember reading. Apple will have to counter the move.

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

I personally expect the MBA to get a Retina Display only in 2014 though.

Releasing it so soon would cannibalize too much sales from the 13" rMBP, and they would have to either lower their profit margin or raise the price of the MBA.

I don't think raising the price of the MBA is a good move, it's their entry level. That would make Macs as a whole unreachable for most.

If they planned to release a Retina MBA so soon, I don't think they would have released a 13" rMBP at all.

I think the Retina display will be the differentiating element between a 13" MBA and 13" rMBP for a while. Apple are good with upselling strategies.

They probably hope people will first get attracted by the MBA and its relatively low price, but then be kind of turned off a bit by its display, then show interest for the 13" rMBP which is quite similar (but considerably more expensive), which's price would have made them not even consider it in the first place.

Apple are always exploiting those kind of psychology tricks.

TjeuV · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
Lighter and thinner than a 13 MBA. Better resolution. Matte screen. Offers a 15in size.

It also sells for a comparable price to a comparable MBA. I mean come on. I can't believe you didn't know that. Lol

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/np900x3c-a04us-series-9-review,3285.html

When Tim Cook comes out and shows off the rMBA you will be one of the fanboys gawking at how amazing it is. Might as well start now.

Haha, I'm sure that's not going to happen

I don't believe in "retina".

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
Lighter and thinner than a 13 MBA. Better resolution. Matte screen. Offers a 15in size.

It also sells for a comparable price to a comparable MBA. I mean come on. I can't believe you didn't know that. Lol

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/np900x3c-a04us-series-9-review,3285.html

When Tim Cook comes out and shows off the rMBA you will be one of the fanboys gawking at how amazing it is. Might as well start now.

The Samsung Series 9 doesn't have anything close to a Retina Display. It has the same vertical resolution as a MBA, with a 11% higher horizontal resolution due to the fact that it uses a 16:9 screen instead of 16:10.

The day a Retina MacBook Air comes out will be amazing, because it'll have 300% more pixels, not 11%. That's quite a big difference. Oh and it'll also probably be IPS, like all Retina Displays in the past.

jpangeles1581 · Dec 12, 2012

Will haswell only come on Q3 2013 for the mobile? Then Q2 for the desktop processors?

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
The Samsung Series 9 doesn't have anything close to a Retina Display. It has the same vertical resolution as a MBA, with a 11% higher horizontal resolution due to the fact that it uses a 16:9 screen instead of 16:10.

The day a Retina MacBook Air comes out will be amazing, because it'll have 300% more pixels, not 11%. That's quite a big difference. Oh and it'll also probably be IPS, like all Retina Displays in the past.

The new (prototype) Samsung 9 ultrabook will offer 2560x1440 in 13.3". That is 221 ppi which is comparable to the 15" rMBP at 220 ppi and 14" rMBP at 227 ppi. All in a form factor lighter and thinner than a 13" MBA.

Sure is better than anything Apple has offered to date with MBA.

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
The new (prototype) Samsung 9 ultrabook will offer 2560x1440 in 13.3". That is 221 ppi which is comparable to the 15" rMBP at 220 ppi and 14" rMBP at 227 ppi. All in a form factor lighter and thinner than a 13" MBA.

Sure is better than anything Apple has offered to date with MBA.

Sure, but you're comparing an existing product to a prototype. It's not even a product that has been announced but hasn't released yet, it's a prototype. I'm comparing two existing products.

Apple doesn't show its prototypes. The fact that Samsung chose to build up hype buy showing theirs doesn't mean that Apple won't be first to market an ultrabook-type computer with Retina resolution.

If that happens, it would be normal to be impressed by them, fanboy or not.

I'm still not sure your original comment saying "Might as well start now." was referring to the current Samsung Series 9, I may have read that wrong.

Johnny Alien · Dec 12, 2012

The rMBP is essentially an ultrabook. It is only slightly heavier than an air and the air is only like .07" thinner. The 13" rMPB actually has a smaller footprint than a 13" MBA. So anyone that wants an ultraportable laptop with retina screen can get one right now. There would be way too much crossover to offer a retina on the MBA. The specs are practically identical to what you can get in a MBA beyond the screen. MBA are going to remain the entry level into the mac laptop world. If they actually do this I can imagine the threads now. $1700 13" rMBA vs $1700 13" rMBP.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
Sure, but you're comparing an existing product to a prototype. It's not even a product that has been announced but hasn't released yet, it's a prototype. I'm comparing two existing products.

Apple doesn't show its prototypes. The fact that Samsung chose to build up hype buy showing theirs doesn't mean that Apple won't be first to market an ultrabook-type computer with Retina resolution.

If that happens, it would be normal to be impressed by them, fanboy or not.

It goes back to the issue of people on this forum stating Apple can't make a rMBA because of cost, size, battery life, will eat sales from rMBP, technology isn't there....etc. Samsung has shown that it is possible and if the rumors are true it will be released next year.

Plus Samsung was smart to make it a matte screen. Hopefully Apple follows suit.

tl;dr

If Samsung was able to pull this off, better believe Apple can make a rMBA. Or else Apple is in bigger do-do than we think. Need to be AHEAD of the competition. Not following.

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
It goes back to the issue of people on this forum stating Apple can't make a rMBA because of cost, size, battery life, will eat sales from rMBP, technology isn't there....etc. Samsung has shown that it is possible and if the rumors are true it will be released next year.

Plus Samsung was smart to make it a matte screen. Hopefully Apple follows suit.

tl;dr

If Samsung was able to pull this off, better believe Apple can make a rMBA. Or else Apple is in bigger do-do than we think. Need to be AHEAD of the competition. Not following.

How do you know they've been able to pull this off? Do you know what the battery life of this thing was? There must be a reason why they're not selling it.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

Johnny Alien said:
The rMBP is essentially an ultrabook. It is only slightly heavier than an air and the air is only like .07" thinner. The 13" rMPB actually has a smaller footprint than a 13" MBA. So anyone that wants an ultraportable laptop with retina screen can get one right now. There would be way too much crossover to offer a retina on the MBA. The specs are practically identical to what you can get in a MBA beyond the screen. MBA are going to remain the entry level into the mac laptop world. If they actually do this I can imagine the threads now. $1700 13" rMBA vs $1700 13" rMBP.

13 rMBP is not worth the money imo as well as others. Just not worth paying that much for what you get.

Good point regarding the size of the rMBP vs MBA. Just shows how Apple needs to redesign the MBA soon to make it lighter and thinner. Samsung already has them beat at this.

With the rumors of the keyboard backlight getting thinner, I think Apple is getting ready to make it better again.

Btw, I would still pick a MBA>> MBP. Bang for the buck and weight are more important.

13 MBA 1.8 i5/8 GB RAM/ 128 SSD @$1299
13 MBP 2.5 i5/8 GB RAM/ 128 SSD @$1499

Both have same iGPU. MBA is the better answer for me and many others on here.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
How do you know they've been able to pull this off? Do you know what the battery life of this thing was? There must be a reason why they're not selling it.

How do you know they haven't been able to pull it off? No I don't know what the battery life was like as no articles seem to hint on this. Not selling probably b/c they are waiting until sometime next year to put it into production.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

Btw, look how glossy the Apple screen is compared to the Samsung. I hope Apple offers matte screen in the future. I know they probably won't.

Johnny Alien · Dec 12, 2012

53x12 said:
Btw, look how glossy the Apple screen is compared to the Samsung. I hope Apple offers matte screen in the future. I know they probably won't.

I am a lover of matte screens as well but that battle was already lost. Standard consumers love the gloss screens with deep blacks despite the downside of glare. Non-glare is only offered on the pro line and I doubt that will change. I wish it were different.

skaertus · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
I personally expect the MBA to get a Retina Display only in 2014 though.

Releasing it so soon would cannibalize too much sales from the 13" rMBP, and they would have to either lower their profit margin or raise the price of the MBA.

I don't think raising the price of the MBA is a good move, it's their entry level. That would make Macs as a whole unreachable for most.

If they planned to release a Retina MBA so soon, I don't think they would have released a 13" rMBP at all.

I think the Retina display will be the differentiating element between a 13" MBA and 13" rMBP for a while. Apple are good with upselling strategies.

They probably hope people will first get attracted by the MBA and its relatively low price, but then be kind of turned off a bit by its display, then show interest for the 13" rMBP which is quite similar (but considerably more expensive), which's price would have made them not even consider it in the first place.

Apple are always exploiting those kind of psychology tricks.

The fact is: as much as Apple claims to have a unique environment with OS X, it has competitors in the real world and it will dance to the music.

Just a few days after the release of the 13" rMBP with a 2560x1600 resolution and costing an outrageous US$ 1,699, Google released a US$ 399 tablet with the very same resolution. I wonder whether Apple rushed to release the 13" rMBP before the rumored Google Nexus 10 came to light.

Next year, expect other manufacturers to release their "retina" laptops. Samsung will probably do that, as it has already showcased a Series 9 ultrabook with a 2560x1440 resolution; and it has the technology for mass producing these devices, as it does for Apple.

How long can Apple stick with the 1440x900 MBA when other vendores are offering "retina" like resolutions for similar prices? As much as Apple does not want to cannibalize sales of the rMBP, it is not alone in the market and will have to make a move if other vendors threaten to supersede it.

53x12 · Dec 12, 2012

^ well said skaertus.

pgiguere1 · Dec 12, 2012

skaertus said:
The fact is: as much as Apple claims to have a unique environment with OS X, it has competitors in the real world and it will dance to the music.

Just a few days after the release of the 13" rMBP with a 2560x1600 resolution and costing an outrageous US$ 1,699, Google released a US$ 399 tablet with the very same resolution. I wonder whether Apple rushed to release the 13" rMBP before the rumored Google Nexus 10 came to light.

Next year, expect other manufacturers to release their "retina" laptops. Samsung will probably do that, as it has already showcased a Series 9 ultrabook with a 2560x1440 resolution; and it has the technology for mass producing these devices, as it does for Apple.

How long can Apple stick with the 1440x900 MBA when other vendores are offering "retina" like resolutions for similar prices? As much as Apple does not want to cannibalize sales of the rMBP, it is not alone in the market and will have to make a move if other vendors threaten to supersede it.

We'll wait and see.

Apple is driven by profit, not market share. They'd rather sell a single computer at 40% profit than 3 at 10% profit. They're the leaders in the thin and light laptop market. They don't have to constantly have the highest specs and lowest price to sell with the mindshare they have and if the experience as a whole is the best around.

Just look at the iPad mini with its much higher price than the competition and so-so display. Or the iPhone 4S that didn't have LTE while most competing phones did at the time. What matters in the end is that those devices sold well and with a pretty high profit margin.

Even if Apple loses some MBA sales to those competing high-end laptops with higher pixel density (which we'll probably start seeing at CES), if the amount they lose because of them is lower than the loss in profits that would result from switching to Retina displays in MBAs (because of lower margins), it's simply not worth it.

Sales of $1,000+ Windows laptops are ridiculously low compared to Macs. They're not really a threat, and I don't think coming with high density displays would have a big impact on that.

The goal for a company is not just to have the best product at the lowest price. It's to find the optimal balance between profit margin and customer demand. The sweet spot for maximum profitability. If a switch in components reduces the profit margin, it better increase customer demand even more, otherwise it's not worth it.

I don't think that's what would happen with a rMBA, at least not for now. It would mostly cannibalize sales from other Macs, mainly the 13" rMBP which is a product with higher profit margin, so Apple would be double losing.

skaertus · Dec 12, 2012

pgiguere1 said:
We'll wait and see.

Apple is driven by profit, not market share. They'd rather sell a single computer at 40% profit than 3 at 10% profit. They're the leaders in the thin and light laptop market. They don't have to constantly have the highest specs and lowest price to sell with the mindshare they have and if the experience as a whole is the best around.

Just look at the iPad mini with its much higher price than the competition and so-so display. Or the iPhone 4S that didn't have LTE while most competing phones did at the time. What matters in the end is that those devices sold well and with a pretty high profit margin.

Even if Apple loses some MBA sales to those competing high-end laptops with higher pixel density (which we'll probably start seeing at CES), if the amount they lose because of them is lower than the loss in profits that would result from switching to Retina displays in MBAs (because of lower margins), it's simply not worth it.

Sales of $1,000+ Windows laptops are ridiculously low compared to Macs. They're not really a threat, and I don't think coming with high density displays would have a big impact on that.

The goal for a company is not just to have the best product at the lowest price. It's to find the optimal balance between profit margin and customer demand. The sweet spot for maximum profitability. If a switch in components reduces the profit margin, it better increase customer demand even more, otherwise it's not worth it.

I don't think that's what would happen with a rMBA, at least not for now. It would mostly cannibalize sales from other Macs, mainly the 13" rMBP which is a product with higher profit margin, so Apple would be double losing.

You're right, but Apple also has to keep its reputation. After all, it's the ultimate reason why it can get good margins.

Of course Apple may keep the design of the MBA intact during 2013 and release a new, redesigned, retina version only in 2014. But all the ingredients for such a release will be ready in 2013.

Haswell processors will be more power-efficient and have a better video card, so they will be more adequate for a redesigned MBA. Apple doesn't have to wait for Broadwell or Skylane to do that.

IGZO displays, which consume much less power, are reportedly ready for production. Apple should have not much difficulty in putting the technology into its Mac line during 2013.

While Apple may keep selling with obsolete products, the sales are definitely hurt. Sales diminish when products are at the end of their cycles. And Apple is keeping an eye on the competition, as always. It released the iPad 4 ahead of the usual timeframe, probably because it wanted to have a brand-new contender to the Google Nexus 10 during the holiday season. Tablets from other vendors are not yet a threat to Apple, but Apple has to keep upgrading the products if it wants to keep its leadership.

The same applies to laptops. Apple may be the market leader in thin-and-light laptops, but the competition is working hard. New designs are coming every week, and Apple is keeping an eye on that. The current MBA design was released in 2010, and it's about time it gets an update. Competitors are learning how to make attractive products, and some of them are looking really great.

Hexley · Dec 12, 2012

Haswell's (2013 Intel chip) built-in GPU was stated to double it's performance.

Also this year's Ivy Bridge can do 4K.

It has to do with availability or pricing of the Retina Display part by next year whether they will go for it or not.

yanksrock100 · Dec 12, 2012

Its not coming that soon.

jpangeles1581 · Dec 12, 2012

yanksrock100 said:
Its not coming that soon.

It is, and i bet they would steppen the power from macbook pro retina so that they can differentiate the difference between rMBA and rMBP when it comes out.

Retina Macbook Air [ Will it happen on 2013? ]

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