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itjw

macrumors 65816
Dec 20, 2011
1,088
6
Mapgate is real. Antennagate is real. Scuffgate is real. Wifigate is real. Battergate is real. And Bendgate is also real on the iPhone whether you like to acknowledge it or not.

Says who? You?

Maybe antennagate had a little substance (on the 4) and maybe mapgate sent a few users to Macy's instead of JCPenny. Both are now fixed.

No more "gates" lol. Just because you acknowledge them doesn't make them any more real than someone pointing out its only a handful of users with a "problem".

Some are real, most are not.

----------

Santa Clause is real. So is the Easter Bunny.

And the Mayan end of the world!

See how that works? Just because I say it doesn't make it real.

I am filthy rich and handsome though. Seriously :p
 

Megalobyte

macrumors 6502a
Dec 30, 2007
690
119
Florida
No, I am not. The coating peeling off is one issue. The soft aluminum denting easily is another and the result of using non-tempered(cheaper softer) aluminum.

I won't debate whether using aluminum was a good choice for the phone, but here's what I do want to say.

I keep hearing the statement, apple "cheaped out" on materials and quality".

As I said, is aluminum a good choice for a thin phone, it's certainly debatable. BUT, you just cannot say apple cut corners, and built the phone "on the cheap", virtually every other smart phone is made primarily from cheap, easily processed plastic. The iPhone is anodized aluminum and glass, with polished chamfered edges.

Again, like the design or not, think its durable, or not, you just cannot say when apple alone made a fairly difficult to manufacture anodized aluminum and glass phone, to everyone else's truly inexpensive plastic, that they went "cheap".

Whatever type of aluminum they used, they still created a much higher end (more expensive to build) phone in a market where most phones are truly as cheap as possible to build.

Like the design or not, it's not a cheap design for a phone.

This said, I do think perhaps on a phone so tall and thin, aluminum might not have been the most durable choice.
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
I won't debate whether using aluminum was a good choice for the phone, but here's what I do want to say.

I keep hearing the statement, apple "cheaped out" on materials and quality".

As I said, is aluminum a good choice for a thin phone, it's certainly debatable. BUT, you just cannot say apple cut corners, and built the phone "on the cheap", virtually every other smart phone is made primarily from cheap, easily processed plastic. The iPhone is anodized aluminum and glass, with polished chamfered edges.

Again, like the design or not, think its durable, or not, you just cannot say when apple alone made a fairly difficult to manufacture anodized aluminum and glass phone, to everyone else's truly inexpensive plastic, that they went "cheap".

Whatever type of aluminum they used, they still created a much higher end (more expensive to build) phone in a market where most phones are truly as cheap as possible to build.

Like the design or not, it's not a cheap design for a phone.

This said, I do think perhaps on a phone so tall and thin, aluminum might not have been the most durable choice.

I do agree with you mostly. I don't think Apple completely 'chinsed' out with this phone. I just wish they has spent probably $2 more on a higher grade aluminum. It would have helped with the easy denting, scratching, etc. Maybe they could have done more field testing-which would have shown the durability issues. Still like the phone and prefer it to a plastic based phone.
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
I do agree with you mostly. I don't think Apple completely 'chinsed' out with this phone. I just wish they has spent probably $2 more on a higher grade aluminum. It would have helped with the easy denting, scratching, etc. Maybe they could have done more field testing-which would have shown the durability issues. Still like the phone and prefer it to a plastic based phone.

there are grades to aluminium?? There would be different grades of aluminium alloys...but i'm pretty sure what apple uses is just aluminium an element??
 

vastoholic

macrumors 68000
Jan 28, 2009
1,957
1
Tulsa, OK
The problem is that Apple has never specified what type of Aluminum they use so all this 6061 non tempered stuff is pure conjecture and speculation at this point.
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
The problem is that Apple has never specified what type of Aluminum they use so all this 6061 non tempered stuff is pure conjecture and speculation at this point.

Same material macbook air is made out of. It was confirmed a while back that it is 6061 non-tempered.
 

vastoholic

macrumors 68000
Jan 28, 2009
1,957
1
Tulsa, OK
Same material macbook air is made out of. It was confirmed a while back that it is 6061 non-tempered.

Show me where. No search has revealed any such confirmation. A simple search of non-tempered aluminum yields no results for anything even using it. It all relates back to the different graded of tempering.
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
you know non-tempered is good for a phone right??
tempering the metal makes it more bendable (less britle), and less hard (more prone to chips..).
If the iPhone 5's material is already non-tempered...there isn't a lot else you can do to it to make it 'tougher' save for using another metal/alloy and thereby making the phone heavier again.
I myself prefer the weightier but tougher stainless steel of the iphone 4/4s.
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
you know non-tempered is good for a phone right??
tempering the metal makes it more bendable (less britle), and less hard (more prone to chips..).
If the iPhone 5's material is already non-tempered...there isn't a lot else you can do to it to make it 'tougher' save for using another metal/alloy and thereby making the phone heavier again.
I myself prefer the weightier but tougher stainless steel of the iphone 4/4s.

btw:

yes, there are different grades to aluminium alloys... I was talking about pure aluminium

With all do respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. A T6 temper is 3X the hardness
of non-tempered 6061 aluminum. Tempering does not make the substance more bendable, malleable or more easily machined.
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
With all do respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. A T6 temper is 3X the hardness
of non-tempered 6061 aluminum. Tempering does not make the substance more bendable, malleable or more easily machined.

sorry, no YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Tempering does NOT harden metals. It is actually the opposite.
 

meistervu

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2008
1,027
27
It's a gold mine of information here

Apple should take notes of all the advices given here: what metal to use, and when use aluminum, what type. As a matter of fact, they should fire all their engineers and hire the geniuses who posted here.

Crowd sourcing engineering - it's the future. Be afraid, be very afraid!
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
Apple should take notes of all the advices given here: what metal to use, and when use aluminum, what type. As a matter of fact, they should fire all their engineers and hire the geniuses who posted here.

Crowd sourcing engineering - it's the future. Be afraid, be very afraid!

haha so good. and it's scary to think that I got all the information above to argue against that Rocko guy from a few sites on the internet...who needs college degrees?
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
This is the main reason I opted for a new 4S over the 5. I played with the 5 at ATT and damn, that thing felt delicate. Too light and too thin. I work a lot with my phone in my pocket and I would never trust this thing not to bend. Apple has definately gone too far with it's obsession with thin.

So, great. Get a new, thin, light iPhone 5, but make sure you put it in a huge, heavy case to protect it. Am I the only one that sees the stupidity in this?

(there's even another thread where a guy's iPhone 5 got hot and came out of his Otterbox case warped.)

A byproduct of the internet age - where a few phones have some manufacturing defect and we assume, because someone posts it on the internet, that all the millions of phones produced have the same defects.....

Guys, this stuff happens. It's just easier for people to talk about it now. You can't honestly assume that every iPhone made will come out flawless? So we have reports now of two bent iPhones and one that warped from heat in an Otterbox. That's a defect rate of about 0.00003%.....

Same goes for the scratches and the maps. People (the media only gobbles up all of it) have tons of ways to complain and whine and project their issues on the public. Just the way of the world. But stop assuming that all iPhone 5's are susceptible to bending because they are lighter and thinner.....mine hasn't bent nor has it scratched and i have just about the thinnest case you can buy on it (a spigen ultra thin air). Its been dropped once without the case and three times with the case - and yet nothing happened....

For every bent iPhone, there's about 3 million perfectly fine ones...
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
Apple™, themselves, are responsible for the iPhone sitting so high on it's pedestal. Don't blame consumers when they complain about getting a bent/scratched phone out of the box or have one that bends or scratches with normal use in a matter of weeks. We're all being told to expect more from Apple.

You need to lay off the commercials, man. I recommend a Tivo.
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
sorry, no YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Tempering does NOT harden metals. It is actually the opposite.

You really have a horrible understanding on this subject. I suggest you study up.

6061 (6061-O temper) has maximum tensile strength no more than 18,000 psi (125 MPa), and maximum yield strength no more than 8,000 psi (55 MPa). Brinell hardness 30-33

T6 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 42,000 psi (300 MPa) and yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). Brinell hardness 92-95.

In layman's terms, T6 tempered is 2.3X the tensile strength, 3.1X the yield strength and 3X the hardness.



----------

haha so good. and it's scary to think that I got all the information above to argue against that Rocko guy from a few sites on the internet...who needs college degrees?

Yeah, all of it is wrong. I suggest community college.
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,553
4,032
Brooklyn, NY
This is just my experience. My iPhone 5 was in my front pocket. I was sitting down and my wife unexpectedly sat on my lap exactly where the iPhone was. I didn't realize until a good 5 seconds later that she was fully sitting on it. iPhone came out fine and was not bent.
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
Not even close. 6061 T6 has 3X the harness as non-tempered 6061.

do you '+1' your own posts?
this i got not from a website: treating metal is done in two stages - hardening and tempering.

hardening hardens it, tempering is then subsequently done to soften it a bit but makes the metal less brittle.

bye the way, quoting mere specs impresses noone ;)
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
do you '+1' your own posts?
this i got not from a website: treating metal is done in two stages - hardening and tempering.

hardening hardens it, tempering is then subsequently done to soften it a bit but makes the metal less brittle.

bye the way, quoting mere specs impresses noone ;)

Facts are not meant to impress anyone. You can continue to ignore/dispute them and burp up whatever garbage you wish, won't change facts or make you appear any more intelligent.:rolleyes:
 

LostSoul80

macrumors 68020
Jan 25, 2009
2,136
7
Not even close. 6061 T6 has 3X the harness as non-tempered 6061.

What I said applies to the process of tempering. You probably have no idea what the goal of tempering is.
The effect tempering T6 produces on the 6061 is due to the composition of the alloy itself.
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,346
1,901
Vancouver, BC
Facts are not meant to impress anyone. You can continue to ignore/dispute them and burp up whatever garbage you wish, won't change facts or make you appear any more intelligent.:rolleyes:

please...show me the way... what credentials do you have and show me a reputable source that tempering metal hardens it.

all in all, I don't believe Apple skimped out on the quality of aluminium. they're just fighting against the properties of Aluminium. a compromise in material choice in order to reduce weight, and possibly, cost.
 

Rocko1

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2011
2,070
4
What I said applies to the process of tempering. You probably have no idea what the goal of tempering is.
The effect tempering T6 produces on the 6061 is due to the composition of the alloy itself.

I absolutely do. Your statement is broad and misleading. What is the purpose of throwing in how the process effects other alloys? Feeding the trolls who assume it pertains to AI?
 

LostSoul80

macrumors 68020
Jan 25, 2009
2,136
7
I absolutely do. Your statement is broad and misleading. What is the purpose of throwing in how the process effects other alloys? Feeding the trolls who assume it pertains to AI?

Perhaps you absolutely don't.
My statement is not broad or misleading. I find it silly when people are wrong about something they have probably never studied, and stating that what I said is "Not even close." is just ridiculous. You probably have no idea what a 6061 is, what properties it has, the applications that benefit from its use. Furthermore, you probably have no idea what a T6 does to most alloys. Or even what it is. You can read about precipitated alloys in any technical book.
 
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