The Samsung 840/840 Pro SSD thread

Hexley · Dec 20, 2012

bill phillips said:
heres my samsung 840 pro ssd macbook pro 15 inch 2012,

That's the fastest single drive 840 Pro benchmark I've seen so far. Breaking the 500MB/s write speed while improving upon the read speed some more. What is surprising is that the 840 Pro has a published Sequential Write of 450MB/s and Sequential Read of 540MB/s.

Is this a 512GB SSD?

It was mentioned to me that the CPU can become the bottleneck when it comes to SSDs reaching their potential seeming you installed it in a 2012 MBPro this may be true.

bill phillips · Dec 20, 2012

Hexley said:
That's the fastest single drive 840 Pro benchmark I've seen so far. Breaking the 500MB/s write speed while improving upon the read speed some more. What is surprising is that the 840 Pro has a published Sequential Write of 450MB/s and Sequential Read of 540MB/s.

Is this a 512GB SSD?

It was mentioned to me that the CPU can become the bottleneck when it comes to SSDs reaching their potential seeming you installed it in a 2012 MBPro this may be true.

nope its the 256, i didnt need that big of a drive personally. Besides it makes no difference in the speeds, just the amount of storage..I also enabled trim and formatted and reinstalled the osx as well instead of cloning. Havent noticed any bottle neck so far, but i also have the 16 gb ram i installed as well. Im looking into putting a second 240 pro into the optical bay and running striped raid 0..should be fun

Hexley · Dec 20, 2012

bill phillips said:
nope its the 256, i didnt need that big of a drive personally. Besides it makes no difference in the speeds, just the amount of storage..I also enabled trim and formatted and reinstalled the osx as well instead of cloning. Havent noticed any bottle neck so far, but i also have the 16 gb ram i installed as well. Im looking into putting a second 240 pro into the optical bay and running striped raid 0..should be fun

When you do a RAID 0 kindly post the benchmark screen grabs here. I'd be interested in your results.

I want to see 1080p.50 and 1080p59.94 have the green √ sign instead of a grey x for write and read.

bill phillips · Dec 20, 2012

Hexley said:
When you do a RAID 0 kindly post the benchmark screen grabs here. I'd be interested in your results.

I want to see 1080p.50 and 1080p59.94 have the green √ sign instead of a grey x for write and read.

will do..I havent ordered it yet, probabally order tonight off amazon, so should be up and running in a few days

shmonkus · Dec 21, 2012

bill phillips said:
heres my samsung 840 pro ssd macbook pro 15 inch 2012, 2.3 mhz ml 10.8.2, 16 gb ram

That's pretty sick!

----------

Jann said:
Dear shmonkus,

per your (and others here) recommendation:

Order Summary
Qty 1

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820147193

It is on its way.

THEREFORE: any issues, concerns, problems, spinning beach balls, missing assignments or unwelcome plots twists in "The Walking Dead", "Game of Thrones", and "Dexter" are hereby and forever due to this recommendation of yours, and I shall hold you to it.

Will be doing clean install tomorrow.....thank you!!

J

You won't be disappointed!

mentaluproar · Dec 21, 2012

Every time I stumble across an SSD thread, it tempts me to violate my mac mini's applecare.

stupid 5400 drive makes everything PAINFUL.

SDAVE · Dec 21, 2012

I see many discrepancies in this thread.

A. The Samsung 840 has 250GB/500GB of storage. (those 6/12GB's make a difference)
B. The Samsung 840 uses TLC memory, compared to much reliable 840 Pro and 830 memory modules (ie., they have a shorter lifespan).
C. The 840 Pro is more comparable to the 830, but better.

Samsung discontinued the 830 to have 2 products, using cheaper memory on the 840 and more expensive on the 840 Pro to make the prior more affordable.

I saw the 500GB 840 break the $310 barrier a few days ago and that's a positive thing! I paid that much for the 256GB 830 a few months ago.

An SSD is probably one of the best purchases someone can make for their computer. Speed increases are instant.

Mr. Retrofire · Dec 21, 2012

Hexley said:
That is what Time Machine is for.

The TM backup is useless, if TM copies a damaged file (from a defective block on the SSD).

Hexley said:
Alternatively I have yet to read of any catastrophic failures on this forum or anywhere else.

All SSDs die sooner or later (except some Intel & Samsung SSDs, which survive a bit longer):
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm
and
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...25nm-Vs-34nm&p=5155598&viewfull=1#post5155598

Hexley · Dec 21, 2012

There you haven't. Te 840 is a Samsung.

Mr. Retrofire said:
The TM backup is useless, if TM copies a damaged file (from a defective block on the SSD).

All SSDs die sooner or later (except some Intel & Samsung SSDs, which survive a bit longer):
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm
and
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...25nm-Vs-34nm&p=5155598&viewfull=1#post5155598

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

Hi guys,

just installed a Samsung SSD 840 Pro in a new Mac Mini, but something appears to be wrong. The system will not boot off of a partition created with Carbon Copy Cloner, and the Disk Speed Test appears to perform the write test OK (around 500 MB/s), but the read test fails after a few seconds with "Error reading the test file".

I just tested writing to the partition and reading the written data, that seemed to work. Cloning the system with CCC seemed to work.

Does anyone have an idea what I could do to figure out what's wrong?

Hexley · Dec 21, 2012

Phagonal said:
Hi guys,

just installed a Samsung SSD 840 Pro in a new Mac Mini, but something appears to be wrong. The system will not boot off of a partition created with Carbon Copy Cloner, and the Disk Speed Test appears to perform the write test OK (around 500 MB/s), but the read test fails after a few seconds with "Error reading the test file".

I just tested writing to the partition and reading the written data, that seemed to work. Cloning the system with CCC seemed to work.

Does anyone have an idea what I could do to figure out what's wrong?

A follow up question...

Why are most installs done using CCC rather than a clean install of the OS then Time Machine the user and apps?

ugp · Dec 21, 2012

Hexley said:
A follow up question...

Why are most installs done using CCC rather than a clean install of the OS then Time Machine the user and apps?

Using CCC is a lot faster. A clean install isn't really needed. It's an exact copy and you wouldn't notice the difference prior to the drive switch.

I've done this twice now when switching drives. Never reinstalled since I got my machine. No problems or performance issues.

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

Hexley said:
A follow up question...

Why are most installs done using CCC rather than a clean install of the OS then Time Machine the user and apps?

It's a lot easier and faster. I did try a clean install after the CCC clone failed using the recovery mechanism, but that only ended in a reboot that appeared to be premature (50 minutes left -- read error again?), and then the system wouldn't boot. It still only boots using the preinstalled HD.

I have copied some 70 GB to that drive now, and have tried reading that data, no errors. But the Disk Speed Test throws an error, and the system will not boot of the drive -- I'm not sure what to do to determine the cause of the error.

After all that hassle with the installation of the 2nd drive in the Mac Mini, I'm reluctant to pull the SSD out again and try it in a another machine (my late 2006 MacBook). So if anyone has a hint as to what I could try to narrow down on the cause of these issues, I'd be happy to hear it!

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

Phagonal said:
I have copied some 70 GB to that drive now, and have tried reading that data, no errors. But the Disk Speed Test throws an error, and the system will not boot of the drive -- I'm not sure what to do to determine the cause of the error.

Correction: Now I did get an error reading the data, but it happens only rarely. Guess I do have to open the Mac Mini again and hope for the best ...

Hexley · Dec 21, 2012

Thank Phagonal.

Adorama's $310 offer for the 500GB Samsung 840 expired at 11AM NYC.

BH Photo's selling it for $320. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ries_2_5_.html

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

Phagonal said:
Correction: Now I did get an error reading the data, but it happens only rarely. Guess I do have to open the Mac Mini again and hope for the best ...

Well, I did open it, and thought I had found the problem. The connector cable to the SSD had been loose, must have happened when I put the HDD back in (because it happened again after I fixed the loose cable). After I put everything back in, the system actually booted from the SDD, and I was about to cheer.

BUT the Disk Speed test did die on me again, this time a little later than before. Up to now, it had not passed 200 MBit/s and reported an error reading the file quickly. Now, it will start out at about 400 MBit/s, then go down to about 350 MBit/s, until it reaches somewhere around 300 MBit/s to 320 MBit/s and reports an error.

Seems like I do need to put it in my old MacBook and see if it works in that machine. I kinda think it might still be the connector cable, maybe it got damaged when trying to install the SSD.

bill phillips · Dec 21, 2012

SDAVE said:
I see many discrepancies in this thread.

A. The Samsung 840 has 250GB/500GB of storage. (those 6/12GB's make a difference)
B. The Samsung 840 uses TLC memory, compared to much reliable 840 Pro and 830 memory modules (ie., they have a shorter lifespan).
C. The 840 Pro is more comparable to the 830, but better.

Samsung discontinued the 830 to have 2 products, using cheaper memory on the 840 and more expensive on the 840 Pro to make the prior more affordable.

I saw the 500GB 840 break the $310 barrier a few days ago and that's a positive thing! I paid that much for the 256GB 830 a few months ago.

An SSD is probably one of the best purchases someone can make for their computer. Speed increases are instant.

yes you are right, some people dont realize theres a difference between the 840 and 840 pro...they just see 840 and they look the same. I did a a alot of research and ended up with the 840 pro, it comes in the 256 and the price isn't bad at all imho for what you get.

Hellhammer · Dec 21, 2012

Jann said:
Hi,

you went with samsung instead of waiting for the Intel 20nm SSDs that should be arriving....soon?

Thanks!

Intel is already using 20nm NAND in their SSD 335. The successor of SSD 520 is still a question but if Intel's roadmap is still the same, then it will just be SSD 525 which is SSD 520 with 20nm NAND (and possible firmware tweaks, but no major differences).

shmonkus said:
Found the quote - it was made by Kristian Vatto, the guy who reviews SSD's on the AnandTech website. Scroll down to the comments section, it's about halfway through page 2 of the comments:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6483/update-on-samsung-ssd-840840-pro-failures

That's true, Samsung told me that a Mac version of Samsung SSD Magician should be coming early next year.

Tenashus1 said:
It's just that reliability issue that bugs me with the 840 vs. 840 Pro. I wish I could know better about that. You know what I mean? Some reviews say that reliability should not be an issue for the average consumer. Just not sure.

I think you're mixing reliability with endurance. Reliability is very hard to test as there are so many components that can fail. For example the 5200-hour bug in Crucial m4 took months to be discovered as it required the SSD to be used for over 5200 hours.

However, endurance can be tested and I've done that for the SSD 840:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6459/samsung-ssd-840-testing-the-endurance-of-tlc-nand

The figures are based on 1,000 P/E cycles rating, but the 120GB SSD 840 in XtremeSystems.org has done nearly 2,000 already, so the figure given by Samsung is very conservative.

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

Phagonal said:
Seems like I do need to put it in my old MacBook and see if it works in that machine. I kinda think it might still be the connector cable, maybe it got damaged when trying to install the SSD.

Tried the SSD in my MacBook, worked without a hitch (although at much lower speeds, probably to be expected in hardware that is six years old

).

Unless anyone has any ideas how to check what might be causing the spurious read errors of the Samsung 840 Pro in the Mac Mini, I'll be trying another cable as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Does anyone know of such problems in a dual drive Mac Mini? Can there be other reasons for the Samsung 840 Pro to sometimes "hiccup" when reading data? Writing to the SSD does not cause any errors whatsoever!

hfg · Dec 21, 2012

Phagonal said:
Tried the SSD in my MacBook, worked without a hitch (although at much lower speeds, probably to be expected in hardware that is six years old ).

Unless anyone has any ideas how to check what might be causing the spurious read errors of the Samsung 840 Pro in the Mac Mini, I'll be trying another cable as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Does anyone know of such problems in a dual drive Mac Mini? Can there be other reasons for the Samsung 840 Pro to sometimes "hiccup" when reading data? Writing to the SSD does not cause any errors whatsoever!

Are you using the original Mini cable, or a cable purchased online?

Could be noise in the cable with the high speeds the 840 pro is capable of achieving.

-howard

Pthagonal · Dec 21, 2012

hfg said:
Are you using the original Mini cable, or a cable purchased online?

Could be noise in the cable with the high speeds the 840 pro is capable of achieving.

I am using the cable that came with the Dual Hard Drive Kit from iFixit, the original Mini cable is attached to the HDD that the Mini came preinstalled with.

To add insult to injury, the HDD died on me yesterday after I had tested the SSD in my late 2006 MacBook (with the much lower speed that that system is only capable of) and then reassembled the Mini.

Hopefully the replacement drive will arrive soon, since right now the Mini is completely dead, because, once again, it will not boot from the SSD, and I'm reluctant to dis- and reassemble the Mini so many times. As seen, something is bound to break sooner or later ...

So what you're saying is that I should try switching the cables of the SSD and the HDD, putting the original cable on the SSD and the cable that came with the kit on the HDD?

Thanks a lot for your reply!

hfg · Dec 22, 2012

Phagonal said:
I am using the cable that came with the Dual Hard Drive Kit from iFixit, the original Mini cable is attached to the HDD that the Mini came preinstalled with.

To add insult to injury, the HDD died on me yesterday after I had tested the SSD in my late 2006 MacBook (with the much lower speed that that system is only capable of) and then reassembled the Mini. Hopefully the replacement drive will arrive soon, since right now the Mini is completely dead, because, once again, it will not boot from the SSD, and I'm reluctant to dis- and reassemble the Mini so many times. As seen, something is bound to break sooner or later ...

So what you're saying is that I should try switching the cables of the SSD and the HDD, putting the original cable on the SSD and the cable that came with the kit on the HDD?

Thanks a lot for your reply!

Yeah ... Taking the Mini apart over and over is asking for trouble! Perhaps you can hook it up out on a table. The cables probably can't be swapped due to length, but you might swap drive positions. If the SSD is good, I would suspect the cable.

-howard

Pthagonal · Dec 29, 2012

hfg said:
Yeah ... Taking the Mini apart over and over is asking for trouble! Perhaps you can hook it up out on a table. The cables probably can't be swapped due to length, but you might swap drive positions. If the SSD is good, I would suspect the cable.

Just wanted to provide a follow-up and the requested info on the Samsung 840 Pro SSD:

After receiving a second cable, I tried both the SSD and the HD with the iFixit cables on both of the connectors on the logic board, and neither combination worked! What does work now, however, is the Samsung SSD in place of the original HD (which is deactivated for now), using the original Mini cable. No more boot problems, no more read errors with the Disk Speed Test.

I will be receiving two more replacement cables (world class support from the local iFixit reseller!), one from iFixit, and one from OWC, but let me just provide the info on the Samsung 840 Pro SSD, which after all is what this thread was meant for.

Note: So far I have been unsuccessful in updating the firmware, even with the CD ROM ISO image. The Mini will not boot from the CD.

Hardware overview

- Screen Size and Model Year
- Model Identifier: Macmini6,2
- Processor Name: Intel Core i7
- Processor Speed: 2.6 GHz
- Memory: 16 GB
- Bus Speed: 5 GT/s
- Serial-ATA: 6 GB/s
- TRIM: Off
- OS X version: 10.8.2

Info on the Samsung SSD

- Capacity: 256 GB
- Model: 840 Pro
- Disk bay installed: Main bay
- Firmware version: DXM03B0Q

hfg · Dec 29, 2012

Pthagonal said:
Just wanted to provide a follow-up and the requested info on the Samsung 840 Pro SSD:

After receiving a second cable, I tried both the SSD and the HD with the iFixit cables on both of the connectors on the logic board, and neither combination worked! What does work now, however, is the Samsung SSD in place of the original HD (which is deactivated for now), using the original Mini cable. No more boot problems, no more read errors with the Disk Speed Test.

I will be receiving two more replacement cables (world class support from the local iFixit reseller!), one from iFixit, and one from OWC, but let me just provide the info on the Samsung 840 Pro SSD, which after all is what this thread was meant for.

Note: So far I have been unsuccessful in updating the firmware, even with the CD ROM ISO image. The Mini will not boot from the CD.

Hardware overview

- Screen Size and Model Year
- Model Identifier: Macmini6,2
- Processor Name: Intel Core i7
- Processor Speed: 2.6 GHz
- Memory: 16 GB
- Bus Speed: 5 GT/s
- Serial-ATA: 6 GB/s
- TRIM: Off
- OS X version: 10.8.2

Info on the Samsung SSD

- Capacity: 256 GB
- Model: 840 Pro
- Disk bay installed: Main bay
- Firmware version: DXM03B0Q

That speed test is looking pretty good on the 840 Pro!

Really weird about the cable issues you are having. I am using the OWC cable in my 2011 Mini and it works fine with the SSD and the original hard disk in a Fusion arrangement. Perhaps when you receive the OWC part you may have some better luck.

-howard

Tenashus1 · Jan 1, 2013

I'm getting 266.8 write, and 512.8 read on my Crucial M4 512gb installed in a mid 2012 MBP 13" with i7, and 8gb ram. Big, big, big improvement over the stock 750gb, 5200 rpm HDD. Hooray! Oops, sorry. I forgot this was the Sammy thread. Oh well.

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