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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,928
46,396
In a coffee shop.
What a fascinating thread. I do think there is a terminology barrier going on here when talking about tipping though.

Over here in the UK tipping is what we tend to do if someone provides a good service but its usually not expected as our minimum wage is around £6/7. If you give a tip it's usually collected by all serving staff & shared out equally.

The closest thing we have to American style "tipping" would be what we call a Service Charge, it's usually applied to resturaunt bills if your party is over a certain number of people.

I think I can speak for a lot of folks on this side of the pond when I admit i had no idea how messed up the pay system is for US service industry workers. I'm sure more of us would tip if we better understood the way you guys do things.

On a further note, I've always found the service in the US to be much better than over here & the peple are generally alot nicer to deal with. It's hard to find really good service in the UK

Excellent post and I agree with everything you have written.

It would be better if people here in the US would call it something else other than tipping so that foreigners from other countries won't confuse the purpose of US non-minimum wage tipping culture. The kind of tipping being discussed is the tipping for under minimum wage workers which is commonly found in restaurants. These workers are usually waiters/waitresses and bartenders.

That kind of tipping is more like a worker who gets paid with commission, but the difference from traditional commission salary is that the customer chooses how much or how little the worker gets. Most of the time customers pay the same percentage so in that sense it's similar to a commission. I'm also assuming that the rest of the world does commission salaries similar to the US. Anyway, the point is that it's expected etiquette and that's where most of their wages comes from. You don't have to tip them if you don't like their service, but it's considered rude not to if they gave you acceptable service.

It really shouldn't be called a tip, but calling it "US-restaurants-somehow-got-lucky-enough-to-not-pay-workers-the-legal-minimum-wage-and-are-abusing-their-luck-forcing-we-the-customers-to-have-to-pay-employee-wages" would be not be supported by any restaurant. ;)

As zioxide has already mentioned, it is a ridiculous system. It's a system that can't be fixed over night and probably will never get fixed because people here in the US have accepted it as "normal". The type of "tipping" found in US restaurants and bars should be thought of more as you personally paying the waiter/waitress or bartender's wages. A new word should be used instead to prevent confusion, but only non-Americans won't understand the difference so nobody here has been motivated enough to call it something else other than tipping.

Again, another excellent post.

Fascinating thread, and one which illustrates different attitudes - not just to what is called 'tipping' but also to actual wages - on both sides of the Atlantic.

As a European, I come from a society where what is called a 'tip' is a discretionary payment on top of what you pay for a meal; very often, a 'service charge' is also charged by an establishment. Staff can expect to be paid the minimum wage - at a minimum, - and are legally entitled to this. It is against the law for an employer to pay less than the minimum wage.

The so-called 'service charge' is supposed to be shared out between the serving (and other) staff. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this is not always the case, and that employers pocket this. As the 'service charge' is not discretionary, I will rarely add a tip when a service charge has been charged, unless the service has been extremely good. If there is no service charge, then I will add a tip. However, the key point here is that servers are already supposed to receive at least the minimum wage, and that tipping, therefore, is discretionary.

I think the disagreements expressed in this thread are about both attitudes and vocabularies. Attitudes to wages clearly differ dramatically. To a European, the idea that it is somehow acceptable to pay a token wage to serving staff and expect them to earn the rest in addition to and while doing their job is anathema. In essence, in the US, it seems acceptable for employers to think that their role as employers means that is perfectly okay to provide a platform - say, a restaurant - whereby others can pay the wages of their staff.

Vocabularies matter, too, as both Paulywauly and nw9 have pointed out. If visitors were informed that the custom in the US is that the paying customer is supposed to pay for their meal and also, this means that they have to pay the wages of the staff serving them when they pay for their meal, it would be more honest. To a European, the word 'tip' implies discretion, a discretion which allows you to reward good service and indicate dissatisfaction with poor service. A more honest (and accurate) term would be 'server charge' rather than 'tip'.

To say 'if you don't like it don't visit' is unhelpful. Personally, I think expecting a dining public to have to pay the wages of their servers is a disgraceful custom, smacks of utter exploitation and a deep disregard for your staff, and is an appalling indictment of attitudes to employees in certain sectors of the US.

My personal view, for what it is worth, is that anyone working in any position deserves a wage which allows them to live a dignified life. Hence, unsurprisingly, I am in favour of trade unions, [enforced] labour law, human rights, and - when and where necessary - state intervention to ensure that basic human rights are accorded, respected and enforced in the workplace.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Please explain?

When you think the problem is that everyone around you is negative, the problem might be that you're the actual problem.

Anyway, in Montreal it's simple : Tip for your drink, or that is your last drink of the night. People that tip get to ask for another drink, those that don't will sit at the bar for hours while the people around them get served and they simply get ignored.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
215
UK
You are expected to tip in the US. Servers are paid below minimum wage here.

What is the point in a minimum wage if people get paid under it? Bit ridiculous if you ask me. As is not including the tip in the price in the first place. Just as well I'm not going back. I don't want to get shot.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
What is the point in a minimum wage if people get paid under it? Bit ridiculous if you ask me. As is not including the tip in the price in the first place. Just as well I'm not going back. I don't want to get shot.

In Quebec, there are 2 minimum wages. With tip/without tip. If you work as a tipped employee, your sales are tracked and about 12% of the amount you made is then added automatically to your revenues for taxing purposes.

So in essence, in Quebec, not tipping an employee is actually stealing from him. The tip you didn't leave still comes out of his income taxes, except he didn't get the actual income for it.

Poor service or not, you don't rob people of their income. If you didn't get good service, you leave feedback with the manager instead or just don't return to that particular establishment.
 

annk

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 18, 2004
15,137
9,323
Somewhere over the rainbow
ADMIN NOTE:

After conferring with the mods, we've decided to reopen the thread to allow for more discussion of tipping customs.

We've deleted most off-topic posts as well as bickering and insults. Please refrain from personal comments about members. You can challenge the content of a post, but you can't attack the member who wrote the post.

And feel free to open any related political discussions in the PRSI sub-forum.

Carry on... :)
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,574
2,908
What is the point in a minimum wage if people get paid under it? Bit ridiculous if you ask me. As is not including the tip in the price in the first place. Just as well I'm not going back. I don't want to get shot.

You can pay less than minimum wage in the UK if the "employee" is on a apprentice course/job. One of my school buddies was on such a course for 4 years at £4/hour. Just a way for dodgy companies to pay their workers less.
 

nw9

macrumors regular
May 1, 2012
115
1
As a European, I come from a society where what is called a 'tip' is a discretionary payment on top of what you pay for a meal; very often, a 'service charge' is also charged by an establishment. Staff can expect to be paid the minimum wage - at a minimum, - and are legally entitled to this. It is against the law for an employer to pay less than the minimum wage.
What confuses foreigners is that we have your definition of tipping for other service industries that get paid a fair wage here in the US which means you don't have to give them a tip if you don't feel they deserve it, but when it comes to restaurants we have a different definition of tipping since they under pay their employees. It's unfair, but not enough people seem willing to fix this system. There are too many employees willing to get paid this way so this system might never get fixed if the employees themselves are willing to tolerate the non minimum wages.

I understand why foreigners get confused about this type of tipping system because unless you know restaurants don't pay the minimum wage then how could you know that it's good etiquette to give a "tip"? It's more like an unspoken hidden service charge. Restaurants like it that way since they don't have to advertise a service fee or force you pay the fee/"tip". If it was a "service fee" then customers are forced to pay, so leaving it as an unspoken "service tip" keeps restaurants from having to deal with it. They let the employee and customer deal with it or argue with each other when it's really a problem caused by the restaurants themselves.

Just about everyone here knows it's a broken system, but no one is willing to fix it because restaurant employees choose to work in that system. If workers were unwilling to work under this system, then there might be a change that could happen.

Foreigners should also understand it's mostly waiters/waitresses and bartenders that don't get a minimum wage. Cooks and cashiers usually get at least the legal minimum wage. Also employees working at fast food restaurants usually get the minimum wage so most people here don't tip them. Many fast food restaurants like McDonalds don't have a waiter/waitress. Some places do have a tip jar which is used like how you define tipping in Europe, but most don't have a tip jar.

That is also a broken system because the tip jar is usually divided with all the employees rather than the one or two people who gave you great service. I would prefer to give the tip directly to the person who gave me great service rather than have it divided out to employees who I didn't interact with.

The easiest way for foreigners to remember the tipping etiquette here is that if employees are not paid a minimum wage, which is common in the non fast food restaurant industry, then it's good etiquette to give them a tip, service fee, or whatever you want to call it. Americans will understand if you don't tip those employees if they gave you horrible service, but if they did their job adequately then it's good etiquette to "tip" them. 15% is the average. Anything more is ironically considered a real tip as you have defined tips in Europe. If it makes it easier for foreigners, you can think of the 15% as a service fee and anything more is the actual tip.
 
Last edited:

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,928
46,396
In a coffee shop.
What confuses foreigners is that we have your definition of tipping for other service industries that get paid a fair wage here in the US which means you don't have to give them a tip if you don't feel they deserve it, but when it comes to restaurants we have a different definition of tipping since they under pay their employees. It's unfair, but not enough people seem willing to fix this system. There are too many employees willing to get paid this way so this system might never get fixed if the employees themselves are willing to tolerate the non minimum wages.

I understand why foreigners get confused about this type of tipping system because unless you know restaurants don't pay the minimum wage then how could you know that it's good etiquette to give a "tip"? It's more like an unspoken hidden service charge. Restaurants like it that way since they don't have to advertise a service fee or force you pay the fee/"tip". If it was a "service fee" then customers are forced to pay, so leaving it as an unspoken "service tip" keeps restaurants from having to deal with it. They let the employee and customer deal with it or argue with each other when it's really a problem caused by the restaurants themselves.

Just about everyone here knows it's a broken system, but no one is willing to fix it because restaurant employees choose to work in that system. If workers were unwilling to work under this system, then there might be a change that could happen.

Foreigners should also understand it's mostly waiters/waitresses and bartenders that don't get a minimum wage. Cooks and cashiers usually get at least the legal minimum wage. Also employees working at fast food restaurants usually get the minimum wage so most people here don't tip them. Many fast food restaurants like McDonalds don't have a waiter/waitress. Some places do have a tip jar which is used like how you define tipping in the UK, but most don't have a tip jar.

That is also a broken system because the tip jar is usually divided with all the employees rather than the one or two people who gave you great service. I would prefer to give the tip directly to the person who gave me great service rather than have it divided out to employees who I didn't interact with.

The easiest way for foreigners to remember the tipping etiquette here is that if employees are not paid a minimum wage, which is common in the non fast food restaurant industry, then it's good etiquette to give them a tip, service fee, or whatever you want to call it. Americans will understand if you don't tip those employees if they gave you horrible service, but if they did their job adequately then it's good etiquette to "tip" them. 15% is the average. Anything more is ironically considered a real tip as you have defined tips in the UK. If it makes it easier for foreigners, you can think of the 15% as a service fee and anything more is the actual tip.

Thank you for an excellent, informative and thoughtful post.

I still think not paying people properly is a deplorably rotten thing to do, and expecting paying customers to make up this wage deficiency is disgracefully disrespectful of both serving staff and the public.

However......while, as a European, I might argue that this is yet another compelling argument for the need for trade unions in the workplace - especially in sectors which are viewed as requiring a semi-skilled workforce, which can be treated with derision, low pay, few rights or entitlements, insecure status, and so on.

Nevertheless, I find the piece in your post where you refer to how, by abdicating responsibility for paying a decent wage, and not compelling customers to pay a 'service charge' (which would be honest, at least) restaurant owners are increasing profits, giving the impression that they are not charging for certain services, while yet transferring all of the angst and responsibility to pay (and be paid) onto the servers and the paying public.

You have explained the reasons behind such flawed thinking very well; once again, thank you for an excellent thoughtful post.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
Maybe our system is not so flawed. In my observation, it leads to far better service. When I was in Europe, the service we received in restaurants was far below the standard of what is expected in the US. And it was that way most of the time. If your customers are directly paying you to do your job, chances are you will do it better. Same goes for bars, being in a crowded bar is unbelievably frustrating. If the bartenders are tipped, it can encourage them to work a bit faster and provide better service. Subconsciously, if you're being paid an hourly wage and you're having a tough busy night, you will start to slow yourself down a bit because you know you're making the same money either way. In my opinion, it makes sense, especially after experiencing the European system.
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
If servers were paid a livable wage and there were no tips, you'd see an increase in prices. You'd be paying for it anyways. At least with tips, servers have an incentive to do their job properly.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
I still think not paying people properly is a deplorably rotten thing to do, and expecting paying customers to make up this wage deficiency is disgracefully disrespectful of both serving staff and the public.

The paying customer already pays 100% of the wage, so whether its in the price of good or services or as an added "tip" makes no difference to the customer.

However, where it does make a difference is because of all the semi-skill jobs out there, most don't offer tipping opportunities and leveling the wage to a single minimum wage introduces unfair competition for business owners to gain and retain employees.

The nasty secret is that even with a single minimum wage equal accross all jobs tipping would still occur and thus the jobs with tipping would be more sought after than the jobs without, creating an imbalance in the semi-skilled area where tipping jobs would be easier to fill and non-tipping jobs would be harder.

Offering a lower minimum wage like we do in Quebec rectifies this balance, and then we went a step further and are taxing the tips.

In North America, we don't see it as unfair. In fact, even with these checks/balances in place, the tipping jobs are still most sought after. Some business owners offer such great opportunities that people... get this.. PAY to work a shift in some establishement. Sometimes upwards of 1000$ a night. Yes, you give 1000$ to the business owner just to work 8 hours for him. The tips are your only salary, and people line-up for it. Is it slave labor ? Far from it, those are some of the best paying jobs out there!
 

Paulywauly

macrumors 6502a
Sep 26, 2009
766
0
Durham, UK
Maybe our system is not so flawed. In my observation, it leads to far better service. When I was in Europe, the service we received in restaurants was far below the standard of what is expected in the US. And it was that way most of the time.

Whilst i can see where you're coming from with this i think there is more to it than just the pay system. In my experience Americans are just generally more upbeat, friendly and less standoffish than us Brits when it comes to dealing with strangers.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
Whilst i can see where you're coming from with this i think there is more to it than just the pay system. In my experience Americans are just generally more upbeat, friendly and less standoffish than us Brits when it comes to dealing with strangers.

That may be true, but when talking about good service I'm not just talking about the attitude of the server. There are many factors that go into it. For example, speed of service, checking on you several times during your meal to see if you need anything, taking plates off the table, accuracy of order placed to the kitchen, etc. There's so much to it and plenty of room to cut corners if you're having a crappy day and are on an hourly wage anyway.
 

184550

Guest
May 8, 2008
1,980
2
If you don't like it, please stay out of the US. You either abide by the customs of the country you visit, or stay home.

When I was in the service industry, I had many unpleasant dealings with British tourists. Almost all of them were unpleasant. However, all of the nice ones were visiting MR folks.

One of those rare threads where I can agree with every point you've made.
 

TedM

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2012
356
2
California
I always pay when I leave. But typically that means opening a tab. In a bar, the bartender holds on to your credit card till you are set to leave.
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,503
91
An Island in the Salish Sea
The paying customer already pays 100% of the wage, so whether its in the price of good or services or as an added "tip" makes no difference to the customer...

One of the differences between Canadians and Americans is that Canadians are not known for being good tippers (Quebec may be the exception). Except when we are in US.... we seem to know that the servers there are underpaid. Which leads to the irony of Canadians who complain about how much cheaper it is to eat in the US vs Canada, but then leave a tip that makes their US meal - once the tips are considered - the same price as a Canadian meal. The only real difference is whether the cost of the meal is listed on the bill or not.

------

I am totally against paying less than minimum wage, and expecting customers to "tip" just because the restaurant/bar owner can get away with pay less. We (the customers) are subsidizing the restaurant owners. They should have to pay the same business expenses as everyone else.

What is also being lost in the discussion about whether tipped servers need to be paid minimum wages or not what happens to those people who work in a less than successful restaurant, or are assigned the slow shift? With a proper minimum wage the those people can still make a living. If they can't make a living working there, then they go on welfare and/or top up at the food-bank and other social agencies.

This is another example of us subsidizing business owners.... our taxes are paying to support workers who aren't being paid by their employer. How is that fair.

--------

And finally.... At least in Vancouver many establishments take a cut of the server's tips. They aren't supposed to, but they do. They take a portion to pool it and then divide it up amongst the non-tipped staff in the back... but of course not all of it gets divvied up to them. It's a cash business, so how do you track it? So once again we (the customers) are subsidizing the business owners at the expense of the staff.

It would be much better, imho, to re-emphasize that tipping is discretionary - and should be reserved to either reward exceptional service, or to be given at the beginning of the meal to ensure exceptional service. And then to make sure the employers pay their fair share and not give them the lower minimum wage loophole.
 

paolo-

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2008
831
1
One of the differences between Canadians and Americans is that Canadians are not known for being good tippers (Quebec may be the exception). Except when we are in US.... we seem to know that the servers there are underpaid. Which leads to the irony of Canadians who complain about how much cheaper it is to eat in the US vs Canada, but then leave a tip that makes their US meal - once the tips are considered - the same price as a Canadian meal. The only real difference is whether the cost of the meal is listed on the bill or not.

------

I am totally against paying less than minimum wage, and expecting customers to "tip" just because the restaurant/bar owner can get away with pay less. We (the customers) are subsidizing the restaurant owners. They should have to pay the same business expenses as everyone else.

What is also being lost in the discussion about whether tipped servers need to be paid minimum wages or not what happens to those people who work in a less than successful restaurant, or are assigned the slow shift? With a proper minimum wage the those people can still make a living. If they can't make a living working there, then they go on welfare and/or top up at the food-bank and other social agencies.

This is another example of us subsidizing business owners.... our taxes are paying to support workers who aren't being paid by their employer. How is that fair.

--------

And finally.... At least in Vancouver many establishments take a cut of the server's tips. They aren't supposed to, but they do. They take a portion to pool it and then divide it up amongst the non-tipped staff in the back... but of course not all of it gets divvied up to them. It's a cash business, so how do you track it? So once again we (the customers) are subsidizing the business owners at the expense of the staff.

It would be much better, imho, to re-emphasize that tipping is discretionary - and should be reserved to either reward exceptional service, or to be given at the beginning of the meal to ensure exceptional service. And then to make sure the employers pay their fair share and not give them the lower minimum wage loophole.

Not sure about the tipping customs in the rest of Canada, but in Québec, 15% seems to be the standard. However, the minimum wage for a tipped job is 8.55$/hr. I think this works for those not working in busy places but the tipping culture makes being a serveur/bartender such a sought after jobs. I personally know bartenders doing 100k$/yr virtually untaxed (would be taxed about 50% in Quebec) working 2-3 nights a week. Sure the bar is insanely busy and they stop working at say 4-5am but they make 2-3 times what a qualified nurse on the night shift does. But then again the average serveur makes a much more modest pay yet probably works just as hard, you end up tipping them as much for the full lunch service what you would tip for 1-2 beers...

Bottom line, I like the idea that you can how your appreciation with a tip but then again, I rarely get very bad service or outstanding service. I actually care way more about food than service. But that might be due to the fact that the serveur has a incentive to do a good job. But in very popular bars I find it creates a very weird situation where everyone wants the bartender's job, you know full well that he's making an absurd amount of money yet you still tip him because you want service the next time you show up.
 

dinggus

macrumors 65816
Jan 17, 2012
1,309
63
I wouldn't even dream of tipping those behind the bar in the UK. Serving food I can see why, but drink only seems inappropriate to me.

I tip a $1 a drink, that is it. You must have been getting crap drinks if you don't tip. Tipping = strong drinks or free drinks on the house.

Completely agree... Annoying you have to tip for everything in the US, especially when quite often those serving are rude and offer such poor service.

Where are you from?

As for the service, I've never had a rude server, and it's VERY rare to have poor service. What do you want them to do, treat you like a King?
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
One of the differences between Canadians and Americans is that Canadians are not known for being good tippers (Quebec may be the exception).

I've never such a thing. So yes, Quebec may be the exception (we are in almost every area after all...). Here we tip 15% minimum if not more.

I am totally against paying less than minimum wage, and expecting customers to "tip" just because the restaurant/bar owner can get away with pay less. We (the customers) are subsidizing the restaurant owners. They should have to pay the same business expenses as everyone else.

Again, maybe you're not understanding how businesses work, but paying part of the salary as a tip or as an added cost on your meal/drink makes no difference to the customer.

I already explained the rational for having a lower minimum wage for tipped employees, you didn't read the rest of my post if seems since you're just making the same arguments I've already answered.
 

ejb190

macrumors 65816
I tip a $1 a drink, that is it. You must have been getting crap drinks if you don't tip. Tipping = strong drinks or free drinks on the house.

Depending on what you drink, you could be stiffing the bartender big league! Those drinks might not be what you think they are!

Here's another line of thinking on opening a bar tab. Credit card machines are expensive to a business. The business is charged between $0.10-0.30 per swipe plus 0.5-2% of the transaction total. If you handed someone a card for every purchase that's an extra couple of bucks the bar would be loosing versus running a tab or laying down cash. Not to mention the amount of paperwork the bartender would have to contend with at the end of the shift.
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,503
91
An Island in the Salish Sea
I've never such a thing. So yes, Quebec may be the exception (we are in almost every area after all...). Here we tip 15% minimum if not more.
Yep. Not surprised. Quebec is often a bit more enlightened than the ROC. :) Here the standard is 10% to 12%....
Again, maybe you're not understanding how businesses work, but paying part of the salary as a tip or as an added cost on your meal/drink makes no difference to the customer.
Having been in business for over 20 years, I do kinda know. Yes, I get that to the customer it may initially appear to be the same... but it also serves to subsidize the profits of the business owner. When times are slow he can put extra staff on because it doesn't really cost him anything... and if there are no customers his costs are minimal... And what does he care if his staff are making no money.... So instead of spending time with their families, his staff because staring at a wall. And if they complain that their time is being wasted they risk that they will never be scheduled for a good tipping shift.

Because minimum wages for tipped employees are lower, so are their government deductions for some programs... so they don't earn the same pension benefits, for instance.
I already explained the rational for having a lower minimum wage for tipped employees, you didn't read the rest of my post if seems since you're just making the same arguments I've already answered.

And you must have missed the part where I argued that we need to de-emphasize tipping so that we aren't tipping as much. And transfer the cost of the paying the wages back to the business owner.

As a whole, it may seem that the money evens out... but in actual fact there are winners and there are losers. Sometimes they are rewarded (or not) based on their abilities. Often though it is simply the luck of the shift, or the location, or whether the customers are in a good mood. When a tipped employee gets a good shift, they underpay their taxes (because RevCan assumes only 12%). So society subsidizes their lost tax income. And when they lose, they pay more taxes than they should - because RevCan assumes 12%. And if they lose out on good shifts a lot society subsidizes them with food banks and other social services. And the only person not paying their fair share ... is the business owner.
 

Roller

macrumors 68030
Jun 25, 2003
2,874
2,002
The thing that drives me crazy about tipping (or whatever you want to call it) is the variation in customary practice. I'm often at a loss to know what to do when I travel outside the U.S., because what's "expected" varies so greatly. I suspect that I've "over-tipped" on trips to Europe and the U.K., but don't know whether the workers thought I was nice, stupid, or both. :)
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Because minimum wages for tipped employees are lower, so are their government deductions for some programs... so they don't earn the same pension benefits, for instance.

Not in Quebec. Again, here tips are part of revenue and thus subject to income taxes. It makes absolutely no difference to business owners, as paying a guy 8.55$ or 10.05$ isn't that big of a difference (he can't just "get more staff for free" like you claimed) and the employees that aren't tipped don't pay more than those that are since the tips are subject to the same taxation.

All points I've addressed.
 

NewbieCanada

macrumors 68030
Oct 9, 2007
2,574
37
In England, when you go to a pub or bar and buy a drink you do just that. You ask for a drink, like a bottle of larger or a shot of vodka, they say how much it is and you pay. If you want another you repeat the process.

But whenever I watch all the US TV, you seem to go to a bar and not pay till you leave. If I'm not clear, you can ask for a whiskey, drink it and get another. Chill for a little then pay at the end for everything you've drank.

Can someone clear this up? It's something I've never understood and I've meant to ask for years, am I picking it up wrong? How does it work?

In addition to the real life reasons people have mentioned, TV compresses time and eliminates things that don't advance the plot. People show up at people's homes without ever calling to see that they're home, let alone being invited.

Unless there's a plot-related reason to show someone paying for things, they usually don't. And that applies to UK TV as well.
 

iStudentUK

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2009
1,439
4
London
The thing that drives me crazy about tipping (or whatever you want to call it) is the variation in customary practice. I'm often at a loss to know what to do when I travel outside the U.S., because what's "expected" varies so greatly. I suspect that I've "over-tipped" on trips to Europe and the U.K., but don't know whether the workers thought I was nice, stupid, or both. :)

Which is why I always look in a travel guide or online for various local customs, on things like tipping etc. I'd hate to look like a typical US tourist! :D ;) :p

My holiday next year (wait, it's now this year!) is to the US East Coast. I'll play the tipping game (ie tip lots of strange people) even though I think it's stupid.
 
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