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We can't have them crossing the mountains and hiding in a cave to get out of the rain. We need this humongous fight between towering rock giants.

That was one that I couldn't remember if it was in the book or not, but it is referenced at the beginning of chapter 4.

The Hobbit said:
When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing themdown into the darkness where they smashed among the trees down below, or splintered into little bits with a bang...
..."This won't do at all!" said Thorin. "If we don't get blown off, or drowned, or struck by lightning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kicked sky-high for a football."

There are some changes to the book, but a lot of the filler material that you are complaining about was added by Tolkien in the LOTR appendices.
 

maflynn

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That was one that I couldn't remember if it was in the book or not, but it is referenced at the beginning of chapter 4
It was more of a side reference and another reason for them to seek shelter in the book, though the rain was the primary reason for them entering the cave.
 

Huntn

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That was one that I couldn't remember if it was in the book or not, but it is referenced at the beginning of chapter 4.

There are some changes to the book, but a lot of the filler material that you are complaining about was added by Tolkien in the LOTR appendices.

Having read the book, along with LOTR many times, I don't mind LOTR lore, however I'll remind you we are enjoying a story, not an encyclopedia. :) And your quote is music to my ears, but it only serves to reinforce the notion that all most every event in the book has been exaggerated to make an exciting movie while destroying the tone of the original story. I find myself holding The Hobbit to a different artistic standard than I did for LOTR. I consider it more of a jewel, than an epic adventure, although it does have an epic nature. I'll be renting the next two parts of The Hobbit and rereading the book to refresh the pleasure that's been temporarily lost. :)
 
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bobob

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I will end up going to see all three, and I like the idea of a longer + more true to the book story.

It's true that the story is longer, but it is definitely false that it is more true to the book story.

Granted, I am a huge fan of the book and have read it many times, so I may be deemed a purist, but I didn't like this film adaptation at all.


Should Sir Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh have dipped into the trove of Hobbit lore that was contained in The Silmarillion then I can see more than just a three episode Hobbit The Sillmarillion was compiled by Christopher Tolkien from the mountain of annotated pre history of the fables.

Christopher Tolkien, who rescued his father's hand scrawled notes from disorganized boxes and made his life's work to decode, edit, and get the source material published in the form of The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the twelve volume History of Middle-earth, is no fan of Peter Jackson's film adaptations:

Invited to meet Peter Jackson, the Tolkien family preferred not to. Why? "They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25," Tolkien says regretfully.

"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time," Christopher Tolkien observes sadly. "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing.
- via Le Monde
 

Huntn

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Christopher Tolkien, who rescued his father's hand scrawled notes from disorganized boxes and made his life's work to decode, edit, and get the source material published in the form of The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the twelve volume History of Middle-earth, is no fan of Peter Jackson's film adaptations:

"They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25," Tolkien says regretfully.

No surprise that I agree with this evaluation. Honestly I am surprised that someone with artistic sensibilities like Peter Jackson could be so spot on, so true to LOTR and get it so wrong with The Hobbit. For someone who is just watching the movies, it's a fine distinction, but if you are a Hobbit book fan, it's not.

My exposure to these books started with The Hobbit and I was bowled over. I knew I wanted more and when I started the LOTR, I immediately recognized I was on to something much darker. This is the kind of distinction that either did not register with Jackson or it was a calculated decision to minimize it and turn The Hobbit into the LOTR prequel which in reality it is not. Yes the story happens in the same universe, but it's about dwarves attempting to take their home back from a dragon, not the battle for Middle Earth.

A side note, at the end of the movie when the troupe was trapped in the tree tops, I don't recall there being any orcs there at all....just evil wolves in the book, which are referred to as "wargs", who got pelted with fiery pine cones before their prey was whisked away by Eagles.

I don't like how they imaged the goblins, just a variation on orcs imo. Based on Tolkien's description I picture them as tall and lank. Something more like from the World of Warcraft (although these are trolls). Maybe I've been unduly influenced. ;):

LOTR Wikia:Goblins
Tolkien described them as big, ugly creatures, "cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted." Tolkien explained in a note at the start of The Hobbit that he was using English to represent the languages used by the characters, and that goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kind) was the English translation he was using for the word Orc, which (he wrote) is the hobbits' form of the name for them. Tolkien used the term goblin extensively in The Hobbit, and also occasionally in The Lord of the Rings, as when the Uruk-hai of Isengard are first described: "four goblin-soldiers of greater stature".


Closer to this:

twotrolls.jpg


Not this:

the-hobbit-figures-3-3-quarter-inch-Grinnah-The-Goblin-figure-1.jpg


7929163.jpeg
 
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Huntn

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After recently re-watching the Hobbit, I've started re-reading the Hobbit book for the ump-teenth time. And if you are a Hobbit book affectionado , starting with the first two chapters, it's easy to see how badly the movie strays from the character of the book. It really is a shame. I don't plan on pointing out every offense, but...

Chapter One- Unexpected Party: There was no frantic juggling of china and silverware by dwarves.

Chapter Two- Roast Mutton: There was no big fight between the dwarves and the trolls. Only one put up a brief fight and that was Thorin before he had a bag popped over his head. And for some reason they decided to shift the emphasis on delay tactics from Gandalf who in the book mimicked the trolls to get them arguing among themselves, versus Bilbo in the movie who offered suggestions to the trolls as to the best way to cook a dwarf. They did not even include the talking purse, (borrowed by the Harry Potter author), who gives Bilbo away as he is trying to purloin it from the troll's pocket.

Despite this, there is no way I'll be able to avoid seeing the second installment, the Desolation of Smaug, when it comes out on DVD. :p
 

designs216

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I love all the attention to detail, soaring sound track, sets, gorgeous location shoots and cinematography of these films. They are all technical marvels as well. Awesomeness on so many levels. I think it becomes exponentially harder with each installment to keep the audience engaged. After the Return of the King, I felt relieved that the story was finally completed. And yet I could not stop myself from watching the Hobbit when it was released. Now even though I felt the Hobbit was a belabored, plodding, overlong story -- I'm still hoping [like Huntn] DoS can restore our faith in the series.
 

Scepticalscribe

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I broke down and saw the Hobbit today in 2D...A disappointing experience.

There is no way this story should be 3 movies. You ever watch one of those director's cut movies where all the missing scenes are added and you prefer the original because the editing is tight? This is how I felt, although in this case it's the original story I miss. I feel that the story was diluted by the extra material and it was negatively impacted. I also felt that Peter Jackson tied the story too much into Lord of the Rings, the same music, extra LOTR characters that were not in The Hobbit, and the same treatment of action and what I consider to be over-the-top action sequences as applied to this story. Technically it was adequate, but I expected something with a different feel from LOTR, just because the book feels very much different than the LOTR series. It (The Hobbit) is much lighter in nature. I wish Del Toro had directed it because he might have come closer to achieving the book experience.

.............
I'll reemphasize my complaints...OVER THE TOP and lack of fidelity to the story. LOTR was a different story and Jackson did a magnificent job with it. But the Hobbit is very different than LOTR with a magnificent narrative that is COMPLETELY eroded in the movie especially with all the filler material that has been added. The Hobbit is really not LOTR Part 1. It needed a different treatment as an incredibly well written stand alone story, with a very unique and different feel from LOTR. If you've never read the Hobbit, or it's been a long time since you've read the Hobbit, go back and read it. Just sample one chapter, "Over Hill and Under Hill" and I suggest that the stark difference in mood and style might astound you at how much more atmospheric the story is and how lost it is in the movie...

It is ages since I even noticed this thread, so I hadn't kept up with the posts.

Anyway, even though it was penned several months ago, I thank you for an excellent and thoughtful review which fully bears out my concerns when this project was first mooted. This is exactly what I had feared would become of a movie adaptation of 'The Hobbit'. I fully take your point that it is not LOTR Part One, that it is a standalone, utterly original, story, with a very different feel and tone, less dark (though not denying darkness), and more wit and verve. Personally, I far preferred Bilbo as a hero in the books to Frodo, and would have loved to see a version where his amiable yet cool headed insouciance and wit influenced the tone the work took. Agreed, LOTR is far darker, something which becomes evident even into the first few chapters.

Having read the book, along with LOTR many times, I don't mind LOTR lore, however I'll remind you we are enjoying a story, not an encyclopedia. :) And your quote is music to my ears, but it only serves to reinforce the notion that all most every event in the book has been exaggerated to make an exciting movie while destroying the tone of the original story. I find myself holding The Hobbit to a different artistic standard than I did for LOTR. I consider it more of a jewel, than an epic adventure, although it does have an epic nature. I'll be renting the next two parts of The Hobbit and rereading the book to refresh the pleasure that's been temporarily lost. :)

Excellent post, and I agree completely with you.

No surprise that I agree with this evaluation. Honestly I am surprised that someone with artistic sensibilities like Peter Jackson could be so spot on, so true to LOTR and get it so wrong with The Hobbit. For someone who is just watching the movies, it's a fine distinction, but if you are a Hobbit book fan, it's not.

My exposure to these books started with The Hobbit and I was bowled over. I knew I wanted more and when I started the LOTR, I immediately recognized I was on to something much darker. This is the kind of distinction that either did not register with Jackson or it was a calculated decision to minimize it and turn The Hobbit into the LOTR prequel which in reality it is not. Yes the story happens in the same universe, but it's about dwarves attempting to take their home back from a dragon, not the battle for Middle Earth.

.........

And again, I agree. Very well put, and captures the essence of the key differences between both works as books.

After recently re-watching the Hobbit, I've started re-reading the Hobbit book for the ump-teenth time. And if you are a Hobbit book affectionado , starting with the first two chapters, it's easy to see how badly the movie strays from the character of the book. It really is a shame. I don't plan on pointing out every offense, but...

Chapter One- Unexpected Party: There was no frantic juggling of china and silverware by dwarves.

Chapter Two- Roast Mutton: There was no big fight between the dwarves and the trolls. Only one put up a brief fight and that was Thorin before he had a bag popped over his head.
Despite this, there is no way I'll be able to avoid seeing the second installment, the Desolation of Smaug, when it comes out on DVD. :p

I'll watch them on TV when they are broadcast (eventually). However, your reviews, comments, remarks and observations mirror my own initial reservations all too well. This is exactly what I feared would happen.
 

maflynn

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After recently re-watching the Hobbit, I've started re-reading the Hobbit book for the ump-teenth time
One task I put in front me was that reading the book prior to the releasing the movie and while that was a great read, it did highlight the differences. Overall though I think the movie was mostly accurate to the book :)
 
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kazmac

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I'll stick with the book

I have never been a fan of Peter Jackson, but the Hobbit novel was one of my favorites. I knew there would be changes (that's true of every cinematic adaptation), the more I watched the first Hobbit film over a four week span the more bummed I am of Guillermo del Toro leaving the project.

SNIP...

well I've decided to give DoS a go theatrically, because I simply cannot bear to miss seeing Beorn. Since I already know what to expect as far as PJ's changes...I'm kind of getting over that this won't be the Hobbit I wished was filmed.
 
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twietee

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[...]

Chapter One- Unexpected Party: There was no frantic juggling of china and silverware by dwarves.

[...]

We share the same sentiments I think, but I found the first chapter and its much lighter and welcoming tone (partly even remotely humorous) to be rather entertaining and hence quite in spirit of the book. It's mostly the second part with nonstop über-action and lengthy rollercoaster fights that distracted me. I was quite surprised that they didn't cut the riddle part with Bilbo and Gollum down to 50s, though. :D
 

Huntn

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We share the same sentiments I think, but I found the first chapter and its much lighter and welcoming tone (partly even remotely humorous) to be rather entertaining and hence quite in spirit of the book. It's mostly the second part with nonstop über-action and lengthy rollercoaster fights that distracted me. I was quite surprised that they didn't cut the riddle part with Bilbo and Gollum down to 50s, though. :D

I agree! :) I mentioned it because my hackles are up in general regarding this adrenaline spiked movie, so the acrobatic juggling of dishes is just another example of where almost everything has been exaggerated x2-10. Why did PJ think the audience needed to see this to get through that scene? Oh, no, we can't just have a meeting with pushy dwarves and an indignant hobbit, we need action! ;)

The first time I watched the movie, I did not get alarmed until the Stone Giant scene where the party got within a hair of being smashed to bits or falling to their deaths off of rolling mountain sides.

In actuality, (wiki ref) while crossing the mountains, storms picked up and:

Bilbo had never seen or imagined anything of the kind. … When he peeped out in the lightning-flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang.

There was no direct threat to the party.
 

twietee

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I agree! :) I mentioned it because my hackles are up in general regarding this adrenaline spiked movie, so the acrobatic juggling of dishes is just another example of where almost everything has been exaggerated x2-10. Why did PJ think the audience needed to see this to get through that scene? Oh, no, we can't just have a meeting with pushy dwarves and an indignant hobbit, we need action! ;)

The first time I watched the movie, I did not get alarmed until the Stone Giant scene where the party got within a hair of being smashed to bits or falling to their deaths off of rolling mountain sides.

In actuality, (wiki ref) while crossing the mountains, storms picked up and:



There was no direct threat to the party.


Fully agreed, except that I think to recall that the book shew the dwarfes as relentless guests and dangerous threat to Bilbo's pantry. Feasting all night long but being overtly (and surprisingly) precise regarding the dish washing and cleansing afterwards.
That scene wasn't heart warming, but compared to the rest almost the best imho..:D

Agreed upon the Stone Giants crap scene.
 

Plutonius

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I agree! :) I mentioned it because my hackles are up in general regarding this adrenaline spiked movie, so the acrobatic juggling of dishes is just another example of where almost everything has been exaggerated x2-10. Why did PJ think the audience needed to see this to get through that scene? Oh, no, we can't just have a meeting with pushy dwarves and an indignant hobbit, we need action! ;)

The first time I watched the movie, I did not get alarmed until the Stone Giant scene where the party got within a hair of being smashed to bits or falling to their deaths off of rolling mountain sides.

In actuality, (wiki ref) while crossing the mountains, storms picked up and:



There was no direct threat to the party.

They had to put in stuff like the juggling of dishes to spice up the 3D visuals.
 

Huntn

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They had to put in stuff like the juggling of dishes to spice up the 3D visuals.

I'm sure your waiting for my next critique. :p (kidding)

I need to stop ranting about it. The shortest critique is this: I classify LOTR as true to the books. The Hobbit has been LOTRizied (LOTR movies) and is relatively untrue starting with the basic story and taking big liberties with the character and events of the book.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone unwilling to accept these kind of deviations for this particular story*. As a yard stick, it can be asked is the movie better than the book? I'm fairly confident that many, if not most The Hobbit affectionatos will be at least miffed.

*I'm flexible, I think. ;) Ive been able to accept many of the inconsistencies of the X-Men movies because most (but not all) of them have been good. I have another example where the cinematic version of a story has been destroyed by the producers: True Blood.... I hate where they took it as compared to the books.
 

Huntn

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Spoiler- This Post Assumes you have read The Hobbit. Venture forth at your own risk.





I'm all most finished with the Hobbit. It's a sad reflection that I had specifically forgot the exact details of how the Smaug died. I knew a man killed him but I had forgotten that it was Bilbo who had noticed the bare spot, unprotected by gems on Smaug's chest, that it was a thrush who overheard his story to the dwarves and relayed the message to the right person, Bard, the bowman from Dale while his town was under attack.

So as part of speculation I'm wondering where the second Hobbit movie will end? If I assume based on previews, it is up to the dragon in the mountain, but before the dragon is slain, otherwise how much could be left for the 3rd movie? Who's with me? :)
 

Huntn

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Actually, it was six books. The publisher made it in three volumes.

Referencing LOTR, hmm, I wonder where each one ended? If you recall in the Fellowship of the Ring, it officially ended with Frodo and Sam crossing the river and heading out on their own. Thinking where could have Tolkien ended it before then, when they arrived at Rivendell?
 

huntnboy04

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Spoiler- This Post Assumes you have read The Hobbit. Venture forth at your own risk.

So as part of speculation I'm wondering where the second Hobbit movie will end? If I assume based on previews, it is up to the dragon in the mountain, but before the dragon is slain, otherwise how much could be left for the 3rd movie? Who's with me? :)

I heard something around the time of the announcement that there would be a third movie, and I'm quit positive there was a Peter Jackson interview, that the third movie is going to follow (somewhat) 95 or so pages of an unpublished appendix or appendixes. I'm just going off memory but all three movies are not just going to be based on The Hobbit.
 

Cave Man

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Huntn

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Spoilers!​

I heard something around the time of the announcement that there would be a third movie, and I'm quit positive there was a Peter Jackson interview, that the third movie is going to follow (somewhat) 95 or so pages of an unpublished appendix or appendixes. I'm just going off memory but all three movies are not just going to be based on The Hobbit.

Well that sounds good to me because I imagined them obliterating The Hobbit basic story with even more extras. If they wrap up The Hobbit book content in The Desolation of Smaug (movie), that will make me happier. After the Battle of Five Armies it takes Gandalf and Frodo 6 months to get home staying with Beorn over Christmas, staying with the elves at Rivendell, and it says in the book, they experienced "more adventures". Just finished the book, one of the most memorable reading experiences I've enjoyed multiple times starting with 5th grade. :)


Hey I was right about the end of the first book. :) Thanks for posting.
 

kazmac

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sigh...

Fully agreed, except that I think to recall that the book shew the dwarfes as relentless guests and dangerous threat to Bilbo's pantry. Feasting all night long but being overtly (and surprisingly) precise regarding the dish washing and cleansing afterwards.
That scene wasn't heart warming, but compared to the rest almost the best imho..:D

Agreed upon the Stone Giants crap scene.

I think the book did this too (the dangerous aspect of the dwarves in Bilbo's pantry.) I've got to replace my hard copy.

I know I'm going to kick myself stupid for seeing The Desolation of Smaug theatrically, but Beorn is one of my favorite Middle Earth characters and I simply must see him. I've kind of forgiven the tweaks with Thorin - some of that had to be done - although I still wish Armitage looked like a dwarf and not like a slightly hairer, albeit 'shorter' Aragorn.

And agreed again for the Stone Giants scene...
 

kazmac

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Spoiler- This Post Assumes you have read The Hobbit. Venture forth at your own risk.


I'm all most finished with the Hobbit. It's a sad reflection that I had specifically forgot the exact details of how the Smaug died. I knew a man killed him but I had forgotten that it was Bilbo who had noticed the bare spot, unprotected by gems on Smaug's chest, that it was a thrush who overheard his story to the dwarves and relayed the message to the right person, Bard, the bowman from Dale while his town was under attack.

So as part of speculation I'm wondering where the second Hobbit movie will end? If I assume based on previews, it is up to the dragon in the mountain, but before the dragon is slain, otherwise how much could be left for the 3rd movie? Who's with me? :)

That sounds right killing Smaug in the beginning of the third movie, supposively much of the third film will be the Battle of the Five Armies. Remembering the never-ending endings of Return of the King, I wager PJ will stretch that out as long as possible...and fill in some time gaps between The Hobbit and LoTR too (i.e. Balin etc. in Moria)...
 
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