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Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Um, so is my house payment each month. I write one check and it goes towards my mortgage and my property tax.


I am a fan of buying, as I never saw the point in paying someone for a place to live that I would not/could not ever own. With that being said, in your situation, I would follow Koodauw's advice.

repairs are not rolled into your rent check, for example if the AC unit breaks and has to be replaced that is a few grand you have to just write out. Plus having to take time off to deal with it and what not. Compare that to renting, it is call the main office and they take care of it and they eat the bill.
 

ugahairydawgs

macrumors 68030
Jun 10, 2010
2,959
2,457
repairs are not rolled into your rent check, for example if the AC unit breaks and has to be replaced that is a few grand you have to just write out. Plus having to take time off to deal with it and what not. Compare that to renting, it is call the main office and they take care of it and they eat the bill.

Exactly. I think, far too often, folks look at the mortgage payment alone in trying to determine if they can afford a house. But like you said....there are tons of other miscellaneous costs that go into it and all too often that just gets glossed over.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,598
3,579
Atlanta, GA
Renting vs. buying is always a complicated choice, and the answer is never as clear cut as "renting is throwing away money" and "owning is always a stable investment".

Having just graduated college, and not knowing exactly what your future holds as far as employment (unless you actually do), then renting seems like the best choice. Why pay closing costs and a down payment on something that you may not stay in, or may even need to move in a few months because of a new job offer? After I graduated college, I went out on tour for seven years. When I was done, and decided to move to Atlanta, I chose to rent to make sure that it was where I wanted to be while I tried to settle myself into my career. This left the option open that if I started to get a lot of work, but that work was mostly in New York, I could make the move if I needed to without dealing with the hassle of selling a house I had owned for only six months.

Now comes the other side of the coin. After becoming established, we decided to buy. We found a neighborhood where one of my best friends was buying and looked into it. New townhomes within 15 minutes of everywhere that I work, about as cheap as you could get at the time, and in a developing area, meaning hopeful good returns after a few years. What could go wrong? Even if the area didn't improve as much as expected, at least we'd have a stable investment! WRONG.

Once the economy crashed, development in our area halted altogether and hasn't picked back up (other areas of the city are moving again, our area is still stagnant). The condemned apartment complex next door, and the blighted shopping center with one open storefront down the street are still there (the apartment complex was old, but not condemned when we bought...now it's mostly boarded up and falling apart). The value of our house has fallen by around 40%. Some of the units down the street have seen a more than 50% drop in value. If I were to sell today, I'd have to pay out over $55,000 just to get out of my mortgage. If I had sold in 2007, I would have made $40,000.

Now is a good time to buy, with low prices and good mortgage rates. But MAKE SURE that owning is a good idea for you at this time. It was a good idea for us, but it came back to bite us in the ass.

To those saying that buying is always the better option, let's have a look.

  • Our apartment was a two-bedroom with bonus room, 1300 square feet, and rented for $850 a month in a fairly decent area.
  • Our town home is a two-bedroom with a bonus room (could be made into a third bedroom), with 1352 square feet, and my mortgage is currently about $1540 a month and includes all the property taxes.
  • We bought in December of 2005, so around 7 years ago.
  • If we had kept renting, we would have paid $71,400 over the past seven years. Since rent has surely gone up, let's assume $80,000.
  • As my mortgage has gone down recently, we've paid approximately $134,000 in mortgage payments.

Looking at the above, AND knowing that we will need to pay another $55,000 just to be able to move out shows that renting would have been a FAR FAR FAR better option for us at the time. If it would cost us nothing or just a few thousand out of pocket to get out right now due to a stable home value, then I'd be fine with having paid the amount we did on our mortgage over the years. I didn't even buy a house with the intention of making a lot of money on the resell. Didn't really care about that, although it's obviously nice when it happens. But having to shell out a lump sum of $55k just to be able to get out is really hard to stomach.

Keep things like that in mind when deciding to rent vs. buy.

My advice is that until you are settled and know what's going on in your life, rent.
 

eternlgladiator

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2010
1,766
104
Twin Cities
Renting vs. buying is always a complicated choice, and the answer is never as clear cut as "renting is throwing away money" and "owning is always a stable investment".

Having just graduated college, and not knowing exactly what your future holds as far as employment (unless you actually do), then renting seems like the best choice. Why pay closing costs and a down payment on something that you may not stay in, or may even need to move in a few months because of a new job offer? After I graduated college, I went out on tour for seven years. When I was done, and decided to move to Atlanta, I chose to rent to make sure that it was where I wanted to be while I tried to settle myself into my career. This left the option open that if I started to get a lot of work, but that work was mostly in New York, I could make the move if I needed to without dealing with the hassle of selling a house I had owned for only six months.

Now comes the other side of the coin. After becoming established, we decided to buy. We found a neighborhood where one of my best friends was buying and looked into it. New townhomes within 15 minutes of everywhere that I work, about as cheap as you could get at the time, and in a developing area, meaning hopeful good returns after a few years. What could go wrong? Even if the area didn't improve as much as expected, at least we'd have a stable investment! WRONG.

Once the economy crashed, development in our area halted altogether and hasn't picked back up (other areas of the city are moving again, our area is still stagnant). The condemned apartment complex next door, and the blighted shopping center with one open storefront down the street are still there (the apartment complex was old, but not condemned when we bought...now it's mostly boarded up and falling apart). The value of our house has fallen by around 40%. Some of the units down the street have seen a more than 50% drop in value. If I were to sell today, I'd have to pay out over $55,000 just to get out of my mortgage. If I had sold in 2007, I would have made $40,000.

Now is a good time to buy, with low prices and good mortgage rates. But MAKE SURE that owning is a good idea for you at this time. It was a good idea for us, but it came back to bite us in the ass.

To those saying that buying is always the better option, let's have a look.

  • Our apartment was a two-bedroom with bonus room, 1300 square feet, and rented for $850 a month in a fairly decent area.
  • Our town home is a two-bedroom with a bonus room (could be made into a third bedroom), with 1352 square feet, and my mortgage is currently about $1540 a month and includes all the property taxes.
  • We bought in December of 2005, so around 7 years ago.
  • If we had kept renting, we would have paid $71,400 over the past seven years. Since rent has surely gone up, let's assume $80,000.
  • As my mortgage has gone down recently, we've paid approximately $134,000 in mortgage payments.

Looking at the above, AND knowing that we will need to pay another $55,000 just to be able to move out shows that renting would have been a FAR FAR FAR better option for us at the time. If it would cost us nothing or just a few thousand out of pocket to get out right now due to a stable home value, then I'd be fine with having paid the amount we did on our mortgage over the years. I didn't even buy a house with the intention of making a lot of money on the resell. Didn't really care about that, although it's obviously nice when it happens. But having to shell out a lump sum of $55k just to be able to get out is really hard to stomach.

Keep things like that in mind when deciding to rent vs. buy.

My advice is that until you are settled and know what's going on in your life, rent.

Very well said.
 

ejb190

macrumors 65816
[snip]
My advice is that until you are settled and know what's going on in your life, rent.

Agreed again. But I'll add a couple of things. You have $30K in student loan debt. Student loans are not bankruptable. Think of the worse case - You loose your house, car, everything and declare bankruptcy. This $30K is still going to follow you home. My suggestion is to get in the job market, pay off the student loan as fast as possible, start putting funds in retirement, and build up some savings. Once you are in that position you have this luxury we call "having options".

I looked at buying a house a couple of times in my life and I'm glad I didn't. I just wasn't there long enough to make it worth the effort.
 

prostuff1

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2005
1,482
18
Don't step into the kawoosh...
repairs are not rolled into your rent check, for example if the AC unit breaks and has to be replaced that is a few grand you have to just write out. Plus having to take time off to deal with it and what not. Compare that to renting, it is call the main office and they take care of it and they eat the bill.

This is true... and something I could have mentioned.

I have had a few appliances "break" on m,. but I have been able to replace/fix them myself. The dishwasher had a slow leak and stopped cycling. It was a bad solenoid. My water heater was not producing enough hot water for my liking. I have replaced both heating elements (electric water heater) and a thermostat on the unit. next time something goes wrong I will just replace the entire unit. It is old and has lasted past its life. Anyone halfway handy can fix the two above problems (and could replace the water heater if need be) with a little help from some friends. I bribe mine to help by offering BBQ and beer; and it usually works.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Exactly. I think, far too often, folks look at the mortgage payment alone in trying to determine if they can afford a house. But like you said....there are tons of other miscellaneous costs that go into it and all too often that just gets glossed over.

Yep. That being said do not think I am completely pro rent. Just I am against the idea renting is throwing your money away.

I plan on buying a house at some point. I figure it always a good idea to have an extra 100 or so a month to put away for just maintenance issue and repairs that come up.
 

ugahairydawgs

macrumors 68030
Jun 10, 2010
2,959
2,457
Yep. That being said do not think I am completely pro rent. Just I am against the idea renting is throwing your money away.

I plan on buying a house at some point. I figure it always a good idea to have an extra 100 or so a month to put away for just maintenance issue and repairs that come up.

Same here. Renting now while me and the wife work on our debt (mostly student loans). Hopefully mortgage rates will stay low while we take care of this. Want to be able to put at least 20% down and have another $10k put aside as a household emergency fund just in case the A/C goes out on day one.
 

sk24iam

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2009
191
0
Find a good deal on rent until you save up enough for a down payment. Then start searching for a house that you can see yourself holding onto long term. If you expect to sell the house in less than 5 years I would hold off on buying a house. Also, don't go into buying a house thinking it's a guarenteed investment. After opportunity costs, home expenses, taxes, and interest the house may not be an investment at all.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,397
12,521
In what world can someone with no down payment, $30K in debt and a first job paying $30-40K afford to buy a house?
 

rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
My friend...

I am 37 years old, I make 72K a year, I have a debt of 6K only and I am worry because I haven't being able to get rid of it. I am actually moving with a roomate because of the fancy life style you mention. The debt is having me unable to travel or create more expenses.

My suggestion... work in paying your debt, do not create more, forget about "life style" there is always time for that. Debt is like being chained to a rock.

Get the book Rich dad, poor dad, it will explain everything.

Many people with debt at the end end up living in crappy places and having 2 jobs and more debt. Do not get use to have it, kill it!
 

Vetvito

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2012
532
13
Rich dad poor dad filed for bankruptcy. Should be noted that those fathers were never proven to even exist. Also no proof of what the author actually did before writing those books.
 

intothepolis

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 14, 2012
102
0
Pandora
Rich dad poor dad filed for bankruptcy. Should be noted that those fathers were never proven to even exist. Also no proof of what the author actually did before writing those books.

Are you saying I shouldn't read the book or take the guys advice seriously? Just curious. Thank you all for your replies. Very good info here and lots of wisdom.
 

rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
Are you saying I shouldn't read the book or take the guys advice seriously? Just curious. Thank you all for your replies. Very good info here and lots of wisdom.

Read the book and come to your conclusions. Many things are very hard to achieve just like that but some basics are really really good and it worked!

For example, a friend of mine was creating web sites for other people. I came to him to tell him why not creating our own web site to make money for us? And we are working on that project.

And I have done things like that before but when I moved to the US I had to start all over again. But the advices in the book are totally real, to create more sources of income instead on concentrating in having one job while accumulating more debt. Have one source of income to pay for your car and another to pay for your... what ever! That is more or less the idea of the book and to make you realized what put money in your pocket and what take it away.

I got the book and the audio book.

In my case, I am moving with a roomate I had in 2 months, I want to pay my credit card debt and I have to pay taxes. I will be with him for 3 months probably but at least I will be debt free!
 

colourfastt

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2009
1,047
964
Don't kid yourself, if you are renting you are the one paying for the property tax. A landlord isn't going to rent something at a price that doesn't cover all of the expenses of that property.

Not necessarily true; in the neighbourhood where I have my condo, most of the condos have been bought by 2 investment companies and they are renting them out at $300 a month. The monthly condo fee alone is $350; so they are renting them at a loss since that doesn't include taxes, insurance, etc.
 

intothepolis

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 14, 2012
102
0
Pandora
It really seems like it's so much harder to get ahead for my generation than it was for my parents generation. That could be completely wrong but this is the way it seems to me. Doctors, dentists, lawyers used to be the best professions and now they aren't. Doctors owe 300,000 when they graduate. Dentists owe just as much and have to pay for dental equipment which is upwards of 500,000 dollars. Lawyers owe 200,000 and have less and less job opportunities. You can't really make much money in real estate anymore. You can't really secure a job with a pension. It just seems like there really aren't any good opportunities out there unless you can write software and even those jobs are disappearing or becoming more difficult to make money in then say the 90's. I'm not saying this as an outsider because I see this as a problem we all must deal with. What are we to do? I guess it's times of desperation that spur the most creativity. Maybe we should all just forget about every traditional means of employment and opportunity and begin inventing new ways to make money.
 

Vetvito

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2012
532
13
^ no my friend it's not harder. Its all about who you know; networking.

Education is only one step. You have to have contacts and always seek knowledge to increase your earning power.

Also focus on stuff you love, the money will come.

I'm 25 and I know that I'll never have to worry about getting work because of the people I've met. I'm on a decent salary now, but I want more so I'm swinging stocks.
 

intothepolis

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 14, 2012
102
0
Pandora
^ no my friend it's not harder. Its all about who you know; networking.

Education is only one step. You have to have contacts and always seek knowledge to increase your earning power.

Also focus on stuff you love, the money will come.

I'm 25 and I know that I'll never have to worry about getting work because of the people I've met. I'm on a decent salary now, but I want more so I'm swinging stocks.

Ok, let's say you are right. Explain this using your argument that it's not harder.

Parents Generation:
-No education
-75k a year
-New home price 125,000
-Day care 120 a week
-Gas prices 1.25 a gallon
-Health care haha

My generation:
-Lots of education (with student loan debt averaging 27k)
-35k a year (no pension)
-New home price 450,000
-Day care 425 a week
-Gas prices 4.00 a gallon
-Health care (we all know where that's at)

So, according to you, it's not harder. If that's your argument, use it to explain how it's not harder for my generation given that information.
 
Last edited:

einmusiker

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2010
3,001
355
Location: Location: Location:
realistically speaking you're not going to be able to buy a home yet on $15/hour , make sure to consolidate your students loans and get on the Income Based Repayment plan, that will help you tremendously. Rent a reasonably priced studio apartment for the time being and concentrate on furthering your career.
 

Vetvito

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2012
532
13
I'm in your generation. It's all about your network and who you know. Our education is great but I know a ton of people with absolutely no education but have six figure incomes. All because of who they know. It's actually kinda sad because people who are qualified for these jobs are usually looked over.

All the stuff you listed is just the cost of living rising, nothing more.
 

intothepolis

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 14, 2012
102
0
Pandora
I'm in your generation. It's all about your network and who you know. Our education is great but I know a ton of people with absolutely no education but have six figure incomes. All because of who they know. It's actually kinda sad because people who are qualified for these jobs are usually looked over.

All the stuff you listed is just the cost of living rising, nothing more.

How can you not include costs of living when saying it's not harder for our generation? The cost of living is an imperative factor. Do you know what percentage of Americans actually make six figures? I would be surprised if it's over 10%. Also, saying it's all about who you know. That may be true. But, it wasn't that way for my parents. They both walked into a large company office and applied for a job like everyone else and they landed good jobs. It was never an issue for them. Your points only reinforce my argument that it is harder for our generation.
 

Koodauw

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2003
3,951
190
Madison
Ok, let's say you are right. Explain this using your argument that it's not harder.

Parents Generation:
-No education
-75k a year
-New home price 125,000
-Day care 120 a week
-Gas prices 1.25 a gallon
-Health care haha

My generation:
-Lots of education (with student loan debt averaging 27k)
-35k a year (no pension)
-New home price 450,000
-Day care 425 a week
-Gas prices 4.00 a gallon
-Health care (we all know where that's at)

So, according to you, it's not harder. If that's your argument, use it to explain how it's not harder for my generation given that information.

I love how you have summed up two generations into 7 lines each. :rolleyes:

Dont waste your time with rich dad poor dad. If you want a real book read the Total Money Make Over. Ill warn you its written from a very conservative point of view in todays terms, but as other have stated read the book, come to your own conclusions.
 

intothepolis

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 14, 2012
102
0
Pandora
I love how you have summed up two generations into 7 lines each. :rolleyes:

Dont waste your time with rich dad poor dad. If you want a real book read the Total Money Make Over. Ill warn you its written from a very conservative point of view in todays terms, but as other have stated read the book, come to your own conclusions.

Look, I'm speaking from a common man's perspective. That's the way it's been in my family and for my friends and neighbors. It's impossible to sum up every single persons experience in both generations. But, I think what I wrote is pretty spot on for most people in my situation. If you think I'm wrong explain why. I'm all ears.
 
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