Stay clear of Lenovos products

VoR said:

I used to swear by thinkpads - The design, build quality, trackpoint, etc - but, they've recently switched keyboard styles... Their old keyboards were the best laptop keyboards I've ever used by far, I won't be rushing back.



I don't think Apple's support is any better or worse than all the major manufacturers, but it is more inconvenient.
If I buy a product that breaks, I expect it to be replaced quickly. Apple's preference about bringing devices into a store, only to then be sent off isn't ideal.
Last support call I had at home was for a 24" Dell Screen I bought off ebay. The power button became a little sticky - after 10mins on the phone, the next day a man showed up with a brand new screen, waited around till I unpacked and tried it and took the old one away. This is exactly the sort of service I expect from any company (and usually what I receive), there's little to improve on.

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I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with field service of a Dell product. I bought Dell CompleteCare a couple of times and while I never needed it, I heard it worked well. For me the deal breaker was having to deal with either Windows or Linux. Once I tried a Mac, I realized I'd had enough non OSX operating systems. Sure I keep a Linux box or two around and I can fire up Windows XP or 7 a couple of times a year in a virtualbox when I really need to but for everyday use I prefer my Macbook Pro.

In all fairness, I must admit that some of Apple's repair options aren't very convenient but I live less than 5 miles from an Apple store, so it's good enough for me.

Until recently, I had a 4 year old Macbook. It was acting up and I wanted Apple to take a look at it. I made a Genius Bar appointment and went in. They plugged in a network cable and booted it from one of their in-store "stock" boot images, thereby proving the problem was either with my software load or with the SSD drive I had installed. I returned the SSD and all my problems went away.

My son's Macbook Pro got something spilled on the keyboard in the dorm/frat house/at a party/who knows. He went several months typing on it with crunching sounds for almost every keystroke and borrowed a bt keyboard from me to get him through till the end of the semester. When he came home we took it to the Apple store. I expected them to give us a load of grief about the spill but they fixed it as a courtesy under AppleCare, despite the fact accidental damage is normally not covered. We got the thing back and all his files were still on it. The logic board had been replaced which would have been close to a $900 repair.

I've seen HP techs come out and swap hardware in the field as well so I know it's not just Dell that does this. But neither Dell nor HP will provide free service on a 4 year old machine or provide repair for accidental damage at no cost. Apple isn't perfect but they are closer to perfect than their competition for their industrial design, software, reliability and customer service.

r0k said:

I've seen HP techs come out and swap hardware in the field as well so I know it's not just Dell that does this. But neither Dell nor HP will provide free service on a 4 year old machine or provide repair for accidental damage at no cost. Apple isn't perfect but they are closer to perfect than their competition for their industrial design, software, reliability and customer service.

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Can't really compare with the likes of HP etc and business/enterprise support - Call them up and there's a man knocking at the door itching to replace equipment within a couple of hours.

Just for the sake of arguing, I prefer the design of thinkpads (well, until the recent keyboard change...), software is personal preference (my main machines run linux), reliability (hard to judge, but potentially biased reviews I've seen tend to have Asus and Lenovo top of reliability?) and customer service is another iffy one - I expect a certain level of service, consumers are pretty well protected in many countries. Replacing accidentally damaged equipment is great, but isn't the norm.

Lenovo has a pretty good reputation. Sometimes you get a dud. Have you contacted the company? No manufacturer has flawless, error free production. Apple is known for their excellent fit, finish, and quality control. Yet, my iPhone 4 failed after a month of use. Took it to the Apple store, 5 minutes later I had a new one. THAT'S why I tend to go with Apple, because their products TEND to be very good, but if I do get a dud (and it DOES happen), they will stand behind it.

I'd be more interested in your story if you would see what Lenovo will do for you. If they refuse to repair it, I could understand. Otherwise, you're just an unfortunate soul who got a bad one. It does happen!

I do think Thinkpad quality isn't as good as it was when IBM made them, but they've generally been good for my employer - occasionally we'll get a batch of crap batteries, but we've got plenty of 5 year+ Thinkpads and desktops still working fine.

The desktops perform well despite on the face of it being vastly underspecified (we still buy M82's with Pentiums!!!!!!) - but that might be down to a well built and controlled image

r0k said:

Apple isn't perfect but they are closer to perfect than their competition for their industrial design, software, reliability and customer service.

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Agreed. I think many long time Apple users have stories of Apple going above and beyond their obligation to the customer. I sure do.

TheGreenBastard said:

They were refusing to refund me my full amount because the item was opened and used. They were going to charge me a 20% restocking fee, and wouldn't replace the computer free of charge because they said that I "must have swapped parts."

In the end after going through multiple departments and talking to a couple supervisors, I got my full refund and got my UPS shipping label to send it back to the company in china.

Fun times but it all worked out.

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That does sound like a pain. I understand the restocking fee perfectly fine if it was just "meh, I decided I don't want it anymore". I mean, would YOU pay full price for a computer that someone else opened, used, and decided they didn't want? It'll have to be sold at a discount, OR gone through and reset, so that makes sense.

BUT, refusing to repair or replace the computer is a little different. Also, a little 'buyer beware', you should always take a look at a companies warranty terms BEFORE buying a product. Some warranties will only cover a small amount of things, and will not cover a replacement or a refund, I've even read warranty clauses that says the company has up to 12 MONTHS to process, verify, make repairs, and return the product!

It's part of the reason I buy from Apple. They stand by it, AND, often you can take it into the Apple store for repair or replacement. As in the aforementioned dud iPhone, I walked in, 10 minutes later, I walked out with a new one, piece of cake. Even if it has to be sent off, it can be sent off from the Apple store meaning you don't have to mess with shipping, etc.

But of course, you pay a premium for the build quality and service you get from an Apple computer.

I have never personally owned a Lenovo, but our FIRST Robotics team has a ThinkPad for programming/controlling our robots and it hasn't failed in the past 3 years.

el-John-o said:

It's part of the reason I buy from Apple. They stand by it, AND, often you can take it into the Apple store for repair or replacement. As in the aforementioned dud iPhone, I walked in, 10 minutes later, I walked out with a new one, piece of cake. Even if it has to be sent off, it can be sent off from the Apple store meaning you don't have to mess with shipping, etc.

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Agreed again! One thing that one me over with Apple is that when I had a problem, they didn't try to pawn me off to the CPU company, or the software company, or the monitor company. Since they control everything, they are willing to take care of everything and stand behind it. I remember having a HP laptop with a Samsung HDD that failed and getting the round about from HP and how I had to deal with Samsung and having Samsung tell me I had to deal with HP.

The few times I have had an issue with my Apple products, they have been taken care of the same day I walked into the Apple store. That is worth the extra cost imo.

TheGreenBastard said:

It's not that at all. EVERYONE on their support forums say that they're ****, and I'm just letting everyone know before they buy a ****** laptop.

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No disrespect intended but let's just pause for a minute and think about what you typed here.

It's a support forum. Who goes on a support forum to talk about how great a product is?

People complain all the time about Macs on here, so Apple must make garbage computers.

Also, I have a thinkpad x41 that (IBM) that is still on my desk because it's awesome and works flawlessly for almost 8 years. I had an ideapad for the the office that didn't make it 6 months before the motherboard died. If you buy a lenovo, please get a thinkpad.

MattG said:

No disrespect intended but let's just pause for a minute and think about what you typed here.

It's a support forum. Who goes on a support forum to talk about how great a product is?

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iPhone fanboys?

MattG said:

No disrespect intended but let's just pause for a minute and think about what you typed here.

It's a support forum. Who goes on a support forum to talk about how great a product is?

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Exactly. You ALWAYS hear about 'common problems'. Truth is, 99.9999% of people are only going to take the time out of their day to post something on a forum if they A) Have a question about how to use it, or B) Would like to know what 'version' they should buy, or C) Have had an issue with it they want resolved.

If the OP had purchased the Lenovo laptop, loved it, we wouldn't have heard a word from him. Unless, perhaps, he was already an active member and someone asked for Windows Laptop recommendations. Rarely to people post or make videos praising products. It DOES happen, but not nearly as often as people posting because they have an issue with the product.

Again, Apple is the benchmark for gadget build quality. Lots of people dislike their products for one reason or another, but the fit, finish, and build quality is second to none and anyone whose head isn't in the sand agrees with that. However, you'll STILL find issues on this forum, on Apples community forum, etc. etc. They are FULL of iPhones that won't turn on, MacBooks that freeze, etc. etc. It's been twice now hasn't it that Apple has had products in which the screen glue didn't cure correctly and a yellow tint came across the screen? Sometimes stuff happens.

VoR said:

I used to swear by thinkpads - The design, build quality, trackpoint, etc - but, they've recently switched keyboard styles... Their old keyboards were the best laptop keyboards I've ever used by far, I won't be rushing back.



I don't think Apple's support is any better or worse than all the major manufacturers, but it is more inconvenient.
If I buy a product that breaks, I expect it to be replaced quickly. Apple's preference about bringing devices into a store, only to then be sent off isn't ideal.
Last support call I had at home was for a 24" Dell Screen I bought off ebay. The power button became a little sticky - after 10mins on the phone, the next day a man showed up with a brand new screen, waited around till I unpacked and tried it and took the old one away. This is exactly the sort of service I expect from any company (and usually what I receive), there's little to improve on.

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Dell support is amazing. One of the times we called them was when the ODD on a laptop stopped burning DVD's correctly. They immediately shipped a new one, but got the address wrong. They then sent a NEW drive immediately. Once they got the other drive they sent wrong back, they sent it to us as well.