Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

gadget123

macrumors 68020
Apr 17, 2011
2,261
293
United Kingdom
personally I think they should have waited to release an iPad 4.They only had to release the mini. The iPad 4 was like a side mention lol. Hell the only way to tell the difference is by looking at the charging port

They had a choice:

Put Ipad 3 out in March 2012 with a lightning or wait until March 2013 but they opted to give us two Ipads instead but I read there was two Macs one year? I don't think Apple will change there strategy and release a product every 6 months that would just be silly.

But at the same time Ipad 3/4 is noticeably heavier. It's being embarrassed by thinner and lighter tablets including Mini and Ipad 2 and Kindle. Ipad 3/4 is a heavy lump and Apple should be working on a thinner tablet.

I don't think Apple will go much thinner anyway than mini. I don't think bendable tablets will take off mainstream but will be more a novelty product.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,727
968
Are people really arguing if apple came out with a smaller tablet for competition reasons?

And also that the ipad mini isnt the economical model despite apple saying so?

I dont think its worth my time even making this argument. The proof is all over the keynote.
 

ZZ Bottom

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2010
829
258
Apple have NEVER been generous with Ram. I expect the iPad 5 will have cpu & gpu enhancements, but will stick to the 1GB ram.

That really depends on how aggressive they go with iOS 7 and what amount of features they want exclusive to new iPad only. But my gut agrees with you. I'm guessing this next round will focus more on physical changes and iOS 7 "innovations".
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,727
968
i mean, people literally said in this thread that apple mentioned nexus 7 to point out what they lack and what the ipad mini had, but not because it's competing with nexus 7

REALLY? IS THIS REALLY?
 

tymaster50

Suspended
Oct 3, 2012
2,833
58
Oregon
They had a choice:

Put Ipad 3 out in March 2012 with a lightning or wait until March 2013 but they opted to give us two Ipads instead but I read there was two Macs one year? I don't think Apple will change there strategy and release a product every 6 months that would just be silly.

But at the same time Ipad 3/4 is noticeably heavier. It's being embarrassed by thinner and lighter tablets including Mini and Ipad 2 and Kindle. Ipad 3/4 is a heavy lump and Apple should be working on a thinner tablet.

I don't think Apple will go much thinner anyway than mini. I don't think bendable tablets will take off mainstream but will be more a novelty product.

I feel as if I'm going to use a tablet then it should at least be somewhere near the size of a laptop screen. Can't go around with 5 inch tablet's now lol that would kill the purpose
 

MF878

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2011
348
288
Auckland, New Zealand
A6 GPU is as powerful as the A5X's GPU. And since the iPad 3 has an A5X chip...

Nope. They're close, but the A5X still has the edge when measured for raw performance in resolution independent tests. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't have pissed around with such a stupid chip.

The second iPad mini will get an A6X if it's Retina while the iPad picks up the new kid, the A7X, unless they get to the stage where the iPad's crazy resolution doesn't need a pumped up version of the chip, but I don't see that happening for a while.
 

daywiz

macrumors regular
Nov 12, 2012
128
0
Nope. They're close, but the A5X still has the edge when measured for raw performance in resolution independent tests. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't have pissed around with such a stupid chip.

The second iPad mini will get an A6X if it's Retina while the iPad picks up the new kid, the A7X, unless they get to the stage where the iPad's crazy resolution doesn't need a pumped up version of the chip, but I don't see that happening for a while.

If you go by the rumors that fast coming out, the ipad 5 can be expected between march-june 2013. The dimensions given by macotakara does make sense if you look at it from the mini's design perspective. Even so, the A7 which was supposed to be made by TSMC on a 20nm design, will not be ready, even until fall.

In my opinion, here is a logical roadmap. The ipad 5 gets updated with a 28nm SOC from TSMC, which they call A6Y or A7X, and the 20nm expected in 2014, will be called A8. Currently the ipad 4 uses a A6X based on a 32nm process from samsung. Using this updated SOC, they can extract a little more performance and improved battery life. Adding to that will be the IGZO technology, they should be able to reduce a great deal of heat dissipation, battery consumption by upto 40-50%, and reducing the battery size by around 25%. That way, they will still be able to offer the standard 10 hour life claim, if not more. But there lies a problem in that.

With these current possible updates, they can only at max improve the following: rear camera to 8mp, front camera to 1080p, add perhaps NFC, and add the truly global LTE chip from Qualcomm. The graphics hardware may also shift to Series 6 "Rogue" series.

With a new design change, improved internals, and improved battery life, and a substantial weight reduction, there isn't a large difference from the ipad 4. with the ipad 4 already getting an retina, newly added A6X, lightning, it almost on par with the upcoming ipad 5.

That means the budget tablet ipad 4 isn't going to do well, once it moves away from the mainstream and shift to the ipad 2 position. You might as well pay the additional 100$ and get the MUCH MUCH better ipad 5 in the first place.

I definitely don't believe that ipad mini 1st gen will replace ipad 2. It's simply doesnt make sense.


A workaround such a problem would be to do two simultaneous things. Firstly increase the base price to $549 for the ipad 5. Then surprise everybody by offering it as 32gb, 64gb and the NEW 128gb. Thereby saying a $50 increase gives u double the space. The icing on cake would be they streamlined the whole lineup and had LTE on the same models for the same price. So just 3 ipad models to choose from. A strategy like that will practically smash the competition out of the market.

Now for the budget model, they have 2 options, either retain the ipad 4 focusing still on the retina and slap the prize down, or upgrade the ipad 2 to have an A6 ( not A6X), and offer improved performance but no retina.

the ipad mini will get the retina and A6X and a base price of around $349, while the ipad mini non-retina will find a slight decrease base price to $299

So can we dream for a scenario like that???
 

Deity 47

macrumors newbie
Dec 27, 2012
11
0
Heres why:

Apple needs to differentiate their iPad product lines between the regular iPad and mini.

They are differentiated by size.
Apple needs to have specs same or similar to avoid fragmentation. iPad 4 has opened the door to graphically intensive apps, and the mini iPad must keep up.
 

batting1000

macrumors 604
Sep 4, 2011
7,451
1,840
Florida
A6 cant run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.

An I missing something here? What chip is in my iPhone 5?

I don't think the lack of retina in the iPad mini is the result of Apple not having it ready. I feel it's mostly because its only the first generation. You can't put everything into the first gen product because each subsequent model will have less and less upgrades.

The iPad mini will always be a year or two behind the iPad 9.7 inch spec-wise IMO.
 
Last edited:

xofruitcake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2012
632
9
Didnt read this wall of text, all i got to tell you is the a6 has half the memory bandwidth as the a5x according to anandtech. Take it or leave it.

And Ipad mini has only 65% of the screen size as Ipad 4. So if they both has 2048x1536 resolution, Ipad mini only has to move 65% of the pixel around. May be A6 is more than adequate after all...
 

xofruitcake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2012
632
9
Now for the budget model, they have 2 options, either retain the ipad 4 focusing still on the retina and slap the prize down, or upgrade the ipad 2 to have an A6 ( not A6X), and offer improved performance but no retina.

the ipad mini will get the retina and A6X and a base price of around $349, while the ipad mini non-retina will find a slight decrease base price to $299

So can we dream for a scenario like that???

The Ipad 4 as a value model does not work. Apple has to address the mid level market share problem. In developing country, price is a very important factor and Apple need to be able to keep driving down price in the "value" line in order to increase market share. Having a non-retina line as the entry level would be a good move. Ipad 3 has a so so gross margin (23 to 32% GM last year according to Samsung trial doc) and Ipad mini has terrible GM right now according to Apple 3Q12 conference call. i.e. barely making any money after paying the engineering, corporate overhead, and marketing etc. (next quarter will be better). Apple need to figure out a way to build quality stuff cheap to maintain 30-40% GM and expand market share. Keep throwing money into the high end is problematic in the long term (having 15-20% smartphone market share worldwide is a problem for the ecosystem in the long term).
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,727
968
And Ipad mini has only 65% of the screen size as Ipad 4. So if they both has 2048x1536 resolution, Ipad mini only has to move 65% of the pixel around. May be A6 is more than adequate after all...

i honestly hope you're kidding.

----------

An I missing something here? What chip is in my iPhone 5?

I don't think the lack of retina in the iPad mini is the result of Apple not having it ready. I feel it's mostly because its only the first generation. You can't put everything into the first gen product because each subsequent model will have less and less upgrades.

The iPad mini will always be a year or two behind the iPad 9.7 inch spec-wise IMO.

i don't really know what you're missing. your iphone has a resolution of 1136x640, the ipad mini retina should have 2048x1536, over 4x the number of pixels. but of course if you want to believe the theory that Apple holds back technology for business reasons, i wouldn't be able to argue since I'm not privvy to those conversations. Obviously, technologies exist, just depends on what kind of trade-offs you're willing to make.
 

TacticalDesire

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2012
2,286
23
Michigan
2007 iPhone 2gb 128mb, 412Mhz ARM 1176
2008 iPhone 3g 128mb, 412Mhz ARM 1176
2009 iPhone 3gs 256mb, 600Mhz Arm Cortex A8
2010 iPhone 4 512mb, 800Mhz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2011 iPhone 4s 512mb, 800Mhz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)
2012 iPhone 5 1gb, 1.3Ghz Dual Core Apple A6 (Tweaked Arm Cortex A15)

2007 iPod Touch 1g 128mb, 412 Mhz ARM 1176
2008 iPod Touch 2g 128mb, 533Mhz ARM 1176
2009 iPod Touch 3g 256mb, 600Mhz Arm Cortex A8
2010 iPod Touch 4g 256mb, 800Mhz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2012 iPod Touch 5g 512mb 800Mhz Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)

2010 iPad 256mb, 1Ghz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2011 iPad 2 512mb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)
2012 iPad 3 1gb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5X (Arm Cortex A9)
Late 2012 iPad 4 1gb, 1.4Ghz Dual Core Apple A6X (Tweaked Arm Cortex A15)

iPad Mini 512mb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)

Based on these trends. I'm thinking the Mini will have the A6 with 1gb while the iPad 5 will get 2gb.

With the iPhone and iPod touch, Apple has generally only updated the Ram every 2 years vs every 1 year with the iPad. I'm thinking from here on out, the iPad Mini will get the previous iPhone's specs like we're seeing with the Mini sporting the A5 and 512mb of RAM just like the 4s. What happens with the iPod Touch is anyones guess as that device is what Apple seems to be the most inconsistent with. I'm thinking it'll get the A6 with 1gb of RAM if it doesn't get dropped.

I've never had a problem with the CPU power of Apple's mobile devices but I've always had an issue with their lack of RAM. Apple always seems to skimp in that regard having to reload pages switching between tabs is obnoxious and completely due to the lack of RAM.
 

deaglecat

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
586
676
2007 iPhone 2gb 128mb, 412Mhz ARM 1176
2008 iPhone 3g 128mb, 412Mhz ARM 1176
2009 iPhone 3gs 256mb, 600Mhz Arm Cortex A8
2010 iPhone 4 512mb, 800Mhz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2011 iPhone 4s 512mb, 800Mhz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)
2012 iPhone 5 1gb, 1.3Ghz Dual Core Apple A6 (Tweaked Arm Cortex A15)

2007 iPod Touch 1g 128mb, 412 Mhz ARM 1176
2008 iPod Touch 2g 128mb, 533Mhz ARM 1176
2009 iPod Touch 3g 256mb, 600Mhz Arm Cortex A8
2010 iPod Touch 4g 256mb, 800Mhz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2012 iPod Touch 5g 512mb 800Mhz Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)

2010 iPad 256mb, 1Ghz Apple A4 (Arm Cortex A8)
2011 iPad 2 512mb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)
2012 iPad 3 1gb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5X (Arm Cortex A9)
Late 2012 iPad 4 1gb, 1.4Ghz Dual Core Apple A6X (Tweaked Arm Cortex A15)

iPad Mini 512mb, 1Ghz Dual Core Apple A5 (Arm Cortex A9)

Based on these trends. I'm thinking the Mini will have the A6 with 1gb while the iPad 5 will get 2gb.

With the iPhone and iPod touch, Apple has generally only updated the Ram every 2 years vs every 1 year with the iPad. I'm thinking from here on out, the iPad Mini will get the previous iPhone's specs like we're seeing with the Mini sporting the A5 and 512mb of RAM just like the 4s. What happens with the iPod Touch is anyones guess as that device is what Apple seems to be the most inconsistent with. I'm thinking it'll get the A6 with 1gb of RAM if it doesn't get dropped.

I've never had a problem with the CPU power of Apple's mobile devices but I've always had an issue with their lack of RAM. Apple always seems to skimp in that regard having to reload pages switching between tabs is obnoxious and completely due to the lack of RAM.

Good summary.

FWIW, I think that the next round of updates for the 10" Ipad will bring :

a) No change in screen resolution but more power efficiency
b) More internal RAM (2Gb)
c) Faster interface (upto USB 3.0 speeds)
d) Faster charging
e) Moderate Speed bump of Cortex A15 based architecture (may be branded as A7)
f) IOS7 (which will only be available retrospectively on 1Gb legacy devices)
g) Option of 128Gb version


Oh... and not until the Autumn (fall).
 

HeyGreggie

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2011
1,063
158
So what are they going to launch in March instead?

I would probably say they'd just announce what's to come on ios7... then upgrade the macbooks and apple tvs. Dont think Apple would play with their market like THAT.. Christmas was literally like two weeks ago and I'm sure they made a killing.


Plus I have a hunch they are going to attempt to differentiate the mini from the normal version by NOT giving the mini a retina display, at least until the 3rd cycle. People are still buying heavily into the "RETINA" word, and it's their selling point.

But as a consumer.. I know if I have two devices that both have retina, and had the option.. i'm taking the mini. And I'm sure the "big ipad" sales would decline as a result.


ahhhh.. apple and their mindpokes
 

AppleWarMachine

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2011
1,085
640
Michigan, US
I'm going with a iPad Mini with Retina display in March 2013 (replacing the original iPad launch space).

A6 chip
1GB RAM

Then later in fall the iPad 5 with A7X releases.

...that's what I'm thinking, iPad mini retina in March and thinner/lighter iPad 5 in the fall (and newer iPhone in the summer)
 

Amplelink

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2012
934
392
...that's what I'm thinking, iPad mini retina in March and thinner/lighter iPad 5 in the fall (and newer iPhone in the summer)

Doubtful. Just too complicated for a company that likes keeping things simple. I think you see one iPad announcement each fall and one iPhone announcement, also each fall.
 

shaown

macrumors 6502
Mar 24, 2011
293
129
Good summary.

FWIW, I think that the next round of updates for the 10" Ipad will bring :

f) IOS7 (which will only be available retrospectively on 1Gb legacy devices)

Oh... and not until the Autumn (fall).

No way that IOS7 won't be supported on the iTouch 5 and the iPad Mini - which are both 512mb devices. And honestly it will probably be on the iPhone 4 / 4s and iPad 2 as well - considering both are still sold as of January 2013.

A more likely statement is it will only be available on 512mb devices - dropping iPhone 3gs support. Though maybe retaining iTouch 3/4 support - since they have less functions (i.e. no cell radios)
 

Samtb

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2013
1,490
32
So basically it's likely that apple will announce a retina mini and a 5 some time between March and November.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.