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thajeztah

macrumors newbie
May 28, 2003
16
0
And Eclipse is written in? Terrible response times! Almost puts you to sleep looking at the IDE.

I don't think Eclipse qualifies as an example of JAVA performance. Eclipse is about the worst case of Java performance.

If you're still running Eclipse and use it for web development, please have a look at PhpStorm (http://www.jetbrains.com). Also Java, but a whole lot more responsive.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
20,595
3,936
New Zealand
How do I re-enable the Java plugin? I don't mind having a warning, and I'll disable it again after I've done what I'm trying to do, but I can't find how to work around this block. Any ideas?
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
6,997
9,594
Vancouver, BC
Sadly, Java runtime for Windows is not much better...

Perhaps, Oracle just hates the world?

The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.

----------

This was really a bright move.

Tons of companies are relying on Juniper VPN which use Java and just got disabled.

Rather then having a work loss caused by a potential virus attack Apple just did it themselves.

Congrats Braniacs.

Does Juniper VPN depend on the Java browser plugin-in? Java itself isn't blocked.
 

Blackforge

macrumors 6502
Mar 8, 2008
290
19
How do I re-enable the Java plugin? I don't mind having a warning, and I'll disable it again after I've done what I'm trying to do, but I can't find how to work around this block. Any ideas?

You could probably edit the Xprotect.plist (Xprotect.meta.plist) file and then shut off the auto-update.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.

Since Java 1.3, the Java Runtime has been using JIT compilation to execute native binary code rather than interpreted bytecode for performance sensitive sections of a given application.

The rest of the exposes frameworks from the Java runtime are no different than the cocoa runtime in their complexity (NSString vs Java strings are no more or less complex). Technicly speaking, the only performance penalty would be during loading, when the JVM performs the compilation step.
 

Blackforge

macrumors 6502
Mar 8, 2008
290
19
The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.

----------



Does Juniper VPN depend on the Java browser plugin-in? Java itself isn't blocked.

Juniper VPN requires the Java plug-in to launch all associated files. So Juniper VPN is shut off (verified at work when I found out about the block).
 

iGrip

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,626
0
JOracle doesn't give a damn about Macs.

Yeah, but if you think about it, pretty much nobody else gives a damn about Macs either. Neither the computer buying public, nor most software developers. The numbers are just too small for major developers to let their "A" team spend much time on the Mac stuff. There are just too few Mac users in the wild.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,837
6,334
Canada
I've heard that Ruby on Rails is the most awesomest thing ever. I tried to install the Rails runtime and serve it through Apache. Wow was that ever a PITA and it never quite worked.

Tomcat/JBoss/WebSphere/Glassfish are models of stability and ease of use compared to the much vaunted Rails. I think people are just lazy, J2EE/JSPs/EJBs aren't so bad, they're just complex because they enable complex applications to be built.

Companies tend to make inappropriate choices about what languages and frameworks to use. Java has fairly slow development times (java is inheriently verbose + development times affected by poor choice of application framework also ) also and may not be the right choice - when other languages may be more suitable. I'm not just talking about current fashionable langauges such as <something> on rails, i.e., ruby.

Absolutely right about EJBS, j2ee etc. A lot of applications are over engineered and simply do not require J2ee.

Java is slow. Case in point? Eclipse IDE. They run better now as most people have at least dual core processors. Compare that with XCode or Visual Studio or Borland.

BTW the whole object oriented web application framework was started by Apple called "WebObjects" (based on JAVA)before .NET or others came along. And its still used by Apple to run their websites,online stores and iTunes. But Apple was smart enough to never write iTunes or any front end application in Java. Apple used to release that SDK like XCode for a while and have now stopped it. Wonder why.... But there is a open source community that still supports it.

Sorry, you just can't say "Java is slow" and cite one desktop application, thats extremely shortsighted and really slows a lack of knowledge.
 
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Risco

macrumors 68000
Jul 22, 2010
1,946
262
United Kingdom
Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple
 

TsMkLg068426

macrumors 65816
Mar 31, 2009
1,498
343
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?
 

neiltc13

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2006
3,126
19
Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple

Did you read the article? This is not a virus. It requires a user to follow a malicious link and then an attacker may be able to compromise their system.

Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?

Off topic, but one of the main uses for Flash is providing DRM video. There are very few implementations of this and Flash is one of the best - it certainly beats RealPlayer and Windows Media. There's no way to use "HTML5" to deliver DRM protected video.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Your system simply hadn't gotten around to running its daily check yet. Prior to the change late yesterday that added Java to the blacklist, the last update to the file was indeed on December 12. Unless of course you manually turned off the daily checks.

Perhaps, but I would be more convinced if anyone could report that this update had occurred automatically on their Mac. (Preferably on Snow Leopard, which requires a security update to participate Apple's malware identification system.) The Preferences pane does not specify how often it checks, and we also get no feedback that anything has or has not occurred. Should we expect an OSX notice that malware has been removed or blocked, as Apple explains on their support page?

This remains unclear and confusing -- a real problem given the apparent magnitude of this security issue.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,837
6,334
Canada
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?

HTML5 on the desktop won't take off until IE10 becomes a whole lot more popular and previous versions of IE usage are in single digits.

Other browsers may becoming more popular but IE still dedicates what technologies are used. Unfortunately IE is the weakest of all the major browsers around.


Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple

A walled garden isn't justified in this case - it would be over kill. I don't think there's been an instance where an OSX walled garden has been justified. However, Apple being able to take this action is a good thing.
 
Last edited:

bwillwall

Suspended
Dec 24, 2009
1,031
802
The only thing I hear about Java anymore is it being a security threat. Why can't people start making apps in html5 and get rid of these outdated and buggy plugins?
 

thephoneguy123

macrumors newbie
Jan 11, 2013
1
0
temp fix

Well, I don't think I will join the debate about Java, but a temporary fix to enable Java (I know, it is a security hazard, however I don't have another option as I have to use the Juniper SSL VPN network connect client).
So,
1. close Safari
2. Open a terminal
3. sudo vi /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist
4. Find the string <key>MinimumPlugInBundleVersion</key>
5. Just under that line you should see the version. Change the last portion of the number from 19 to 1.
6. Save and exit
7. Start up Safari and you should work. You must keep in mind that this file may be updated by Apple again, so this is only temporary and should only be done if you *must* use your current version of Java.

best of luck....
 
M

Mr.damien

Guest
Thanks for the reply.

I write Java on a daily basis, I wanted to know from you why you thought 'Java Sucks'... or if you were just on some bandwagon. Some reasons why Java sucks are now invalid and have been for a long time - such as 'Java is Slow'... which is a gross generalization.

Some of those points or valid in the link, others are just his opinion, others may disagree or agree.

Java can be a good choice on the server side, on the GUI side, not so much. Saying that, writing webapps with Java is not a great experience - there are better choices - YMMV.

Thanks for the reply.

Outside the fact that you are trying to defend the only language you know that makes your eat everyday, could you tell us why are the advantage of java over any others languages (like python, ruby, perl, etc ...) on the market because I just see none today or if you were just on some bandwagon.

While some reasons about why Java sucks are now invalid, others about why Java is cool like 'running everywhere' and 'it is the future' has always been invalid.

And still, Java is dogging slow especially on anything touching a desktop app. Sure you will always get some crap benchmark calling 10 000 time the same call to show how fast Java could be, but real world app are just not working like that.

And just to finish, a joke very famous within the UNIX sysadmin community: Do you know why Sun invented Java ? To make every processor to be as slow as a sparc.

So true, the funiest part was seeing the IBM JVM running faster than the Sun one.
 

ajovanov

macrumors newbie
Jan 11, 2013
6
0
I got java to work now

I disabled safe download list and edited the list file

System Preferences -> Security & privacy -> General
unlock the padlock

click on Advanced button

uncheck automatically update safe downloads

click ok

open terminal

cd /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

you have to be root user now

cp XProtect.meta.plist XProtect.meta.plist.BAK

vi XProtect.meta.plist

change

<string>1.7.10.19</string>


to some lower numbers

in my case

<string>1.7.6.19</string>

now java will work, but your machine will be unsecure
 

TsMkLg068426

macrumors 65816
Mar 31, 2009
1,498
343
HTML5 on the desktop won't take off until IE10 becomes a whole lot more popular and previous versions of IE usage are in single digits.

Other browsers may becoming more popular but IE still dedicates what technologies are used. Unfortunately IE is the weakest of all the major browsers around.


But I am not using Microsoft Windows so I do not get why Mac users should worry about IE.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
6,997
9,594
Vancouver, BC
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?

Java in a web environment is inexcusable these days, but there's still legacy applications in use and companies stuck in the past.

But Java runs natively outside the browser, too.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,837
6,334
Canada
Thanks for the reply.

Outside the fact that you are trying to defend the only language you know that makes your eat everyday, could you tell us why are the advantage of java over any others languages (like python, ruby, perl, etc ...) on the market because I just see none today or if you were just on some bandwagon.

No, I use multiple languages - so Java isn't the only one I know. Java has its place, but many times, it is used inappropriately.

While some reasons about why Java sucks are now invalid, others about why Java is cool like 'running everywhere' and 'it is the future' has always been invalid.

While it doesn't run everywhere, it still runs on many platforms. And that is extremely useful, firstly, for cross platform application compatibility - especially between Windows and *nix, secondly for being able to use Java to write on different platforms.

Java is the most used language for mobile.

And still, Java is dogging slow especially on anything touching a desktop app.
I disagree. Java can be extremely fast on the server side. C may be faster but you would really want to write a webapp using C? No, probably not.

Java on the desktop doesn't have to be slow, its how the application is implemented, like all apps. I can point you to dog slow ObjectiveC, C# desktop applications.



And just to finish, a joke very famous within the UNIX sysadmin community: Do you know why Sun invented Java ? To make every processor to be as slow as a sparc.
"Java is slow" is inaccurate today and has been for a long time.




--------------


But I am not using Microsoft Windows so I do not get why Mac users should worry about IE.

Firstly, I'll start with two points:
1. Windows users signficantly outnumber Mac users.
2. IE has a significant enough user base - versions 7,8,9 and 10.

So, given this:

When companies / individuals write a website they often want it to be accessible to as many people as possible. At the moment IE10 is the only IE browser that has good HTML5 support but IE10 hasn't got a particularly large user base.

Websites have to cater to IE8 and IE9 ( which makes up a large portion of users world wide ) so therefore HTML5 is out of the question, so websites will be developed using HTML4. So, when IE8 and IE9 has low enough userbase, companies will be able to target IE10 and therefore HTML5.

Mac users are constrained by the user base of internet explorer.
 
Last edited:

tigres

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2007
4,213
1,326
Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
Well, I don't think I will join the debate about Java, but a temporary fix to enable Java (I know, it is a security hazard, however I don't have another option as I have to use the Juniper SSL VPN network connect client).
So,
1. close Safari
2. Open a terminal
3. sudo vi /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist
4. Find the string <key>MinimumPlugInBundleVersion</key>
5. Just under that line you should see the version. Change the last portion of the number from 19 to 1.
6. Save and exit
7. Start up Safari and you should work. You must keep in mind that this file may be updated by Apple again, so this is only temporary and should only be done if you *must* use your current version of Java.

best of luck....

I disabled safe download list and edited the list file

System Preferences -> Security & privacy -> General
unlock the padlock

click on Advanced button

uncheck automatically update safe downloads

click ok

open terminal

cd /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

you have to be root user now

cp XProtect.meta.plist XProtect.meta.plist.BAK

vi XProtect.meta.plist

change

<string>1.7.10.19</string>


to some lower numbers

in my case

<string>1.7.6.19</string>

now java will work, but your machine will be unsecure
Call me a skeptic, don't know for whatever for.:rolleyes:
 
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