Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Seeds Build 12D54 of OS X 10.8.3 to Developers

E

Eithanius

macrumors 68000
Nov 19, 2005
1,541
412
oneMadRssn said:
You've probably not seen expose in ML, and you probably don't remember the hate-flame-war over expose in Mac forums when SL came out; I'm guessing.

Here is expose in ML:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png/

Here is expose in SL:
http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/graphics/expose-all.jpg

Here is expose in L:
http://pcmcourseware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/expose.png

Look back at forum posts from Fall of 2009. People hated expose in SL, about as much as they hate ML today. Some things never change.

I don't "love" ML, and really hate the fact that Apple refuses to allow backwards compatibility on newer Macs. I'm just trying to prevent misinformation. (1) Expose in ML is better than Lion; and for those who have been around OSX for a while, recognize that it's back to proper Leopard behavior from when it was best., and (2) not all the extras are bloat, just some of them :)
Click to expand...

You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?
 
cmChimera

cmChimera

macrumors 601
Feb 12, 2010
4,273
3,762
Eithanius said:
You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?
Click to expand...

Haters gonna hate.
 
flottenheimer

flottenheimer

macrumors 68000
Jan 8, 2008
1,528
651
Up north
Peace said:
I have that same MBP and I don't see that in 10.8.3
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I'm not a developer. Nor interested in running beta releases of OS X. So, I'm still stuck running 10.8.2. Glad to hear that the issue has been solved.

Eithanius said:
I thought they fixed that with 10.8.2...? It was an issue with 10.8 and 10.8.1 that sometimes it gotten me distorted graphics until I had to reboot my MBP... It returned, and I stick back in SL...
Click to expand...

Nope, they didn't fix it in 10.8.2, at least not completely. I'm still experiencing it from time to time — especially when starting InDesign as the first app on a freshly rebooted system. Super annoying.
 
oneMadRssn

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,976
13,988
Eithanius said:
You guessed it wrong. I came from the Tiger era where Expose had already been introduced on Panther. Leopard came and went, but because Apple introduced a bunch of new features that bloated it, I skipped and went straight to Snow Leopard. Boy how happy was I when Expose (complete with captions) was refined grid-style. Most importantly, Snow Leopard got rid of support for PowerPC-based Macs, I guess that was what made it lightweight and stable...? Apple did emphasised that Snow Leopard was to be an under-the-hood refinement of Leopard. And yes, I was aware of how people would hate SL Expose that they would hack it to revert to the old-style Leopard Expose...

Lion came, Expose and Spaces (another PITA feature devolution) were unified. I guess I don't need to explain further on Expose as it was a total mess just like Leopard, and groped (yes you read it right - groped!)...! :eek: Mountain Lion came to reverse some of those mistakes, but unfortunately it still retains the mess of Leopard.

Expose aside, Mountain Lion is as much as bloated as Leopard, though it supposed to carry some refinements over Lion, but it does not come close in performance and stability of Snow Leopard. People have been saying, and thus proving for instance, graphical performance is superior in ML than SL. No doubt it's true. But at what cost...? Instabilities...? Graphical choppiness...? Why the iOS fanciness with unnecessary resource-hogging windows animations...? I BOINC my science project every now and then, SL does one WU by 1h 50m, ML does in 1h 49m...? I wouldn't trade 1 minute of performance over such aforementioned problems.

SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.

Now we're seeing an annual cycle update of OS X, which means more features will be introduced, more resources will be needed, consumer will have to upgrade more often, maybe 2 to 3 years once as opposed to 4 to 5 years during the PowerPC era...?
Click to expand...

So... you wouldn't at all mind if I came to every forum thread where the OP discussed how great SL is, or SL in general, and bashed it, complained, and whined?
 
Pentad

Pentad

macrumors 6502a
Nov 26, 2003
986
99
Indiana
Pegamush said:
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposè and spaces.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that...


You can't stay on SL forever. Granted, I felt that SL with 8 GB of memory on a top of the line MBP was the fastest Mac I've ever used. I really did love SL...but technology moves on...pretty fast.

However, SL is old technology and while ML isn't 100 perfect, it has become much better.


-P
 
I

iBug2

macrumors 601
Jun 12, 2005
4,531
851
Eithanius said:
SL starts up with less than 400 process threads, while ML starts with over 600... They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...? Expose is just one of the many screw ups on L/ML.
Click to expand...

And the amount of threads is actually an indication of performance on older systems? No. It can have 1500 threads but each thread can take less CPU cycles and it can eat into less resources than the 400 thread OS.

Do you actually see those extra 200 threads eat into your CPU? Because I don't. On SL or L or ML, when I'm not doing anything, CPU usage is pretty much the same, close to 11%. 5% of it is kernel task, 5% of it is my Duet Audio deamon, and the remaining 1% is everything else. Most of those 600 threads, or 400 in SL, cost me 0% CPU.
 
E

Eithanius

macrumors 68000
Nov 19, 2005
1,541
412
iBug2 said:
And the amount of threads is actually an indication of performance on older systems? No. It can have 1500 threads but each thread can take less CPU cycles and it can eat into less resources than the 400 thread OS.

Do you actually see those extra 200 threads eat into your CPU? Because I don't. On SL or L or ML, when I'm not doing anything, CPU usage is pretty much the same, close to 11%. 5% of it is kernel task, 5% of it is my Duet Audio deamon, and the remaining 1% is everything else. Most of those 600 threads, or 400 in SL, cost me 0% CPU.
Click to expand...

And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:
 
cmChimera

cmChimera

macrumors 601
Feb 12, 2010
4,273
3,762
Eithanius said:
And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well your whole rant implied that the number of threads was a negative thing, and the system was "bloated" because of it. When people say something is bloated, it usually means it is heavier, and slower than it should be.
 
I

iBug2

macrumors 601
Jun 12, 2005
4,531
851
Eithanius said:
And which part of my sentence did I equate threads to performance....? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Eithanius said:
They stay there whether or not you utilise the iOSified features. Bloated isn't it...?
Click to expand...

If you are not worried about performance hit, and if you know that you may "not use" those extra features that create those extra threads (I'm not even sure that's the case here, extra threads can be created even with the same features just threaded in a different way), then what exactly are you on about when you say "bloated"?

Don't look at the number of threads on activity monitor and there, your problem is solved. I wish everyone's issues with OS's could be solved just as easily.
 
T

tywebb13

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2012
2,942
1,626
Will 12D54 be the build for public release of os x 10.8.3?
 
Last edited:
chrfr

chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,517
7,020
tywebb13 said:
I reckon 12D54 will be the build for public release of os x 10.8.3 (unless developers discover something drastically wrong with it.)
Click to expand...
12D54 doesn't even have release notes in the installer. There will be at least one more build.
 
F

fragel

macrumors newbie
Dec 16, 2012
8
1
noiseordinance said:
Please mother of god make safari a useable browser for retina machines.
Click to expand...

Hi,

actually, Safari webkit nightlies is perfectly useable because they fixed fully the lag on our Retina machines. I hope these improvements be in the coming update. Try it and you will see how should be the UI in this machine as usual.

Link to the Safari Nightlies:

http://nightly.webkit.org/
 
C

canadianpj

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2008
496
406
Pegamush said:
still no reason for "switching" from SL to ML. i have to admit that airdrop is nice, but not so widespread. all the social cr@p can go to hell. i want back proper exposè and spaces.
Click to expand...

Enjoy living in the past then I guess? I'm sure years from now when you're still on SL you'll be happy.
 
N

noiseordinance

macrumors regular
Sep 12, 2012
249
8
fragel said:
Hi,

actually, Safari webkit nightlies is perfectly useable because they fixed fully the lag on our Retina machines. I hope these improvements be in the coming update. Try it and you will see how should be the UI in this machine as usual.

Link to the Safari Nightlies:

http://nightly.webkit.org/
Click to expand...

I'm not referring to lag, I'm referring to broken CSS all over the place. This has occurred on 4 different rMBPs, and is widely reported by rMBP Safari users on the Apple website, yet they have not fixed these horrendous problems since the release of the Retina line back in June. In the meantime, I use Chrome. For more details, see here:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20462072#20462072
and
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20970837#20970837
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom