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KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
4,793
998
Everywhere
lol the samsung galaxy III and the iphone 5 arent cheap phones either and blackberry isnt in the market to sell "cheap" phones

Agreed, but since this is their first version of the re-designed OS. There are bound to be issues, and they are by no means going to be on par with iOS, wp8 and android right out of the gate.

When given a choice at the same price points....most will choose an OS that as been around the block once or twice.

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Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

At release:

Could only run a single app at a time.
No App Store
No ability to download music/video/audiobooks from iTunes
No GPS functionality with maps at all
No push email
No WPA2
Most youtube videos wouldn't work
No cut copy paste
Single calendar support with no CalDav
Terrible exchange supoprt
no folders
couldn't take video
couldn't zoom camera
couldn't create/edit playlists
No voice recognition
no over the air updates
no wifi synching support

to say the least.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,060
9,730
Vancouver, BC
Ahh, 4.2" screen - exactly what would have been better on the iPhone 5, the ideal size for modern use, especially with 3:2 ratio so you can actually read web pages vertically without zooming in. 16:9 is stupid for a phone - It's a video resolution, my phone isn't primarily used for video even nowadays, it is however used for surfing the web where horizontally the field of view is too small and vertically too narrow. Apple have started to become sheep rather than sticking to their guns.

Just wanted to put that rant out there. I didn't even mention the pissy yellow tinted screen again...

So you're mixing design and manufacturing flaws together as the same thing, and you get 17+ votes? And Apple sticks to their guns more than most companies, I would reckon. Slow, steady, consistent and clean product roll-outs.
 

blahblah100

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2009
272
30
These type of 'responses' are so predictable.
:rolleyes:

Heaven forbid that the moderators post links to non-Apple specific sites/information. Jeez, expand you horizons!

No problem, and agree. But this being the case, the fanboys need to stop with the "it's a MACrumors site if you want to talk about X go to an X site" crap everytime someone posts anything other than "steve jobs is god" and "samsung sucks."
 
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rostic83

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2013
5
0
Australia, Sydney
Well, if Apple had a model with a physical keyboard, the original Motorola Droid wouldn't have sold, and Android would be nowhere what it is today. It really did change the marketplace.

Physical keyboards are much better at typing than screen keyboards. Blackberry basically still exists because of that.

If Apple had a phone with a keyboard, it would defeat the purpose of Steve Jobs announcement.
The whole idea of the iPhone was to get rid of the keyboard and show people that it is not the future for smartphones or phones overall and that multi touch with out a stylus is just so much better.

I even remmber people saying that it wont take off, you need buttons and look at everyone now.

I put my hat down to Steve and Apple, for changing the game forever.

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I would respectfully disagree. You're saying that out of personal interest. If people felt they couldn't cope with a virtual keyboard then Apple wouldn't have droves and droves of people camping out for days at a time to buy their iPhone upon release day. It's had phenomenal success. If something is working immensely for a company why should they change the formula or add to the lineup to satisfy a small clientele? I hate those tiny buttons anyway.

Totaly agree.
Where are keyboard phones today?

Most probably the only reason Droid was popular is because it took Android hardware 3 year to catch up to Multi Touch, this definetly made things harder to use the phone and probably easier with keyboard.

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Agreed, but since this is their first version of the re-designed OS. There are bound to be issues, and they are by no means going to be on par with iOS, wp8 and android right out of the gate.

When given a choice at the same price points....most will choose an OS that as been around the block once or twice.

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to say the least.

Took apple at least 3 years to build up a fully functional OS with Multi Tasking, Copypaste and all the other additions.
Apart form that, Apple built a solid, stable and robust lag free OS which can now be easily considered as a fully developed OS.

WP8 is still years away.

Android is the only one that are catching up to iOS.

Unfortunatly for RIM, where Apple had a lot of sales and profits with the ability to put a lot of work force to improve their OS.
RIM Lacks thoes advantages as they are loosing massive market share.

Going to be hard for them to survive.
 

Cactii

macrumors member
Nov 14, 2005
68
117
Los Angeles
I just watched the entire presentation and have to say, this was a one of the most poorest product introduction i've seen. The crowd was not excited. At one point Mr. Heins said "Come on" so they actually applauded the new features.

When I read the rumors leading up to the event I was truly impressed and thought this will be a nice alternative. Yes, they do have some features wich are compelling, however watching this painful and slow presentation nothing made me go "WOW this is a must have".

I know I won't and from hearing my friends responses they won't be customers of Blackberry anytime soon.

Regardless, I wish them all the best. Maybe they will make a come back. Competition is great for us, the consumer.
 

quickmac

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2011
272
14
This has GOT to be a troll post. I don't even know where to begin.

How is that a troll post? If you can't see the writing on the wall for Apple you're either in the "reality distortion field" people joke about or you just don't see the trends.

Apple is repeating essentially the SAME pitfalls that RIM did 5 years ago. RIM was huge and the big smartphone maker in most markets including the USA. They didn't see iPhone as a threat and continued to dismiss the iPhone as a serious contender even as they lost market share and lost interest from users in the US. They didn't see a reason to innovate or radically change their software or their hardware because "they were Blackberry makers and Blackberry users are loyal and we're the best."

As they started to really lose market share they realized Apple was impacting their sales and rushed out half baked touchscreen phones because they missed the point. They thought users wanted a touchscreen, it wasn't Apple's touchscreen it was the OS and design of the OS and hardware look. So RIM continued to half ass try to compete on the wrong areas of the iPhone's success. Then Android got big and all hell broke loose.

Look at Apple now in the smartphone market. Sure they have dominate market share in multiple countries including the US. Most people have dismissed Blackberry and Windows phones as serious contenders. And sure Android is a threat to Apple but why care, Apple has nearly the same market share as them and the next nearest competitor is RIM with nearly 40% less than their closest competitor in Android phones.

And look at the iPhone. What's new about it? What's changed? The 5 got longer and got a bigger screen. Apple stuck to it's smaller screen for years. You think they made it bigger because they wanted to? They made it bigger because they knew other phone makers had already been doing it and consumers were buying them up.

But besides screen and size and minor spec bumps how has the iPhone and more importantly the iPhone iOS really evolved since 2007? You can't include basics like picture messaging and group MMS (which even dumb phones had prior to 2007!). What's changed besides more apps and a few tweaks? Sure iCloud and Siri are nice touches but overall iOS is basically the same from nearly 6 years ago !

And now you have Blackberry back with a phone that out of the box has more features for a first version release of a new phone than iPhone ever did. And it's backed by a company that like it or not has double the number of global carrier support than Apple ever did, has growth in new markets that Apple hasn't touched, AND is offering features that Apple should have rolled out a while ago.

The writing is on the wall. Apple's stock is slowing down, they've reported decreased sales of the iPhone, AND now they have another competitor back at them in their most successful market right now: smartphones. The iPhones sold like hotcakes, why change them if they keep selling like crazy? RIM thought the same way about their devices when iPhone first came out. And now is Apple thinking like RIM did back then? Because if they are then they are going to get stagnant, not realize the evolving market quick enough, and lose market share.

If that was too long: RIM ignored the threat the iPhone posed for way too long. Their market share in the US nearly collapsed, hell their business nearly collapsed. Now you have Apple with a device that hasn't changed much in 6 years and now faced with increasing competition from Android devices, new Blackberry devices, and Windows phones. People will tire of the lack of innovation in the iPhone and move on. Apple needs to act now and not just dismiss the Blackberry devices as "nothing to worry about."
 

quickmac

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2011
272
14
So much repetitiveness in those models. You see the BB name and logo repeated over and over and over.

They really need sum luv, don't they?

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Sounds like you haven't figured out what APPS are for?

And whats the iPhone without apps?

A dated and tired mobile OS.

Which is exactly what happened to Blackberry.

So get core apps out of the box and access to thousands more in an app store and you've leveled the playing field against Apple. Just because Apple got the "app craze" going first doesn't mean they'll always be around to keep selling them. RIM was the smartphone leader and started that craze, and they fell hard. The iPhone needs more than third party apps to survive.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2009
3,098
4,010
Chicago
You don't even get it. What competition? There's not one single "trump card" feature that would make people switch back to Blackberry or force Apple to up their game. In fact all it looks to be is a fusion of iOS, Windows Phone 8 and Android. It's "OKAY" but not exactly a dealmaker.

You might want to read Pogue's NYT review. There are several features that will be "trump cards" for certain users. The predictive typing he describes is certainly quite attractive to me. The only question is how many users will choose this. My guess is that BB10 will be sufficiently popular among financial and legal professionals (and other similar-profile users) to put this in the #3 position behind Android and iPhone within a year. After that, time will tell.
 

Lobwedgephil

Contributor
Apr 7, 2012
5,707
4,646
Your forgeting somthing here, RIM invented Push Email and high encryption, Microsoft then cought up with ActiveSync.

They did, and what shocks me is that Blackberry 10 no longer supports Push email unless using Exchange. A lot of people use Pop email accounts, which won't be push anymore.
 

getstuff4less

macrumors member
Jan 31, 2010
74
0
I've noticed a lot of non-Apple rumors lately. If we are going to post the competition post every single manufacturer out there.
 

flux73

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2009
1,019
134
How is that a troll post? If you can't see the writing on the wall for Apple you're either in the "reality distortion field" people joke about or you just don't see the trends.
Yes, that was too long. I'll keep it short(er). It's not the same situation:

BB worldwide sales peaked in Q4 2010 with 14 million units and have fallen steadily every quarter since (comparing YoY). iPhone sales have just hit 47 million units per quarter (vs 37 million YoY) and have not shown signs it's going to decrease anytime soon.

BB refused to get rid of their hard keyboard until it was too late and so the competition had hardware advantages (bigger screen size, changeable/moveable keyboard). At the time, their competition came out with completely new form factor AND an app store which no one else had at the time. Tablets using the same platform didn't exist. It's the platform that matters, NOT the phone. You claim to sort of understand this, but then you go on to forget all about it.

Back then, the hardware was inferior and the platform didn't have anything to hold you. Thus, it was easy to leave. This time, their hardware is not significantly different (or better) than anyone else's. It's equally as good at best. But, there still aren't any apps, media, or integration with other devices to hold you to their platform. So it's STILL easy to leave. The only people who would go to that platform are the people who would leave just as easily. They are more of a "threat" to Android with less device integration, than iOS. But even Google can still sleep pretty soundly tonight. Hell, I'm not even sure Microsoft is threatened much by this new Blackberry.

Some of tech geeks are so freaking obsessed with hardware specs and whatever the newest shiniest toy is that you forget that rest of the population (99%) doesn't care. Unless it looks significantly better, operates significantly better, or somehow makes their life much easier, very few people who have an iOS device are going to switch. There are now over 400 million iOS users. Tell me in what universe you're in that you think Blackberry is going to convert 400 million with this magical new phone? Because conversion is exactly what they need if they have any shot of taking back marketshare.

I'm not saying that Apple can afford to stand still. But it's a freaking delusional joke that you think Blackberry's going to take back its marketshare with this phone. Esp after it's lost its corporate clientele who have also all moved onto either iOS or Android. "Writing on the wall"?? You're preparing the obituary for Apple because of one phone announcement, and I'm in the "reality distortion" field?

Apple's stock is slowing down
Apple's stock being down has to do with fear, not reality. You clearly are one of these people hitting the panic button.
they've reported decreased sales of the iPhone
I think you meant "increased". Let me check...37 million iPhones sold in Q1 2012, 47 million iPhone sold in most recent Q1 2013 (with 1 wk less in this year's quarter too). Yup. You meant "increased". By 27%. With one less week of sales.

BTW, I say all this as a former Blackberry owner and fan. A lot has changed in the last 4 years. Blackberry needs a lot more than just a phone and new OS to get back to the top. Quite frankly, I like Microsoft's odds better.

Your real problem is that you have bad case of tech ADHD. You probably complain that OS X Mountain Lion isn't innovative enough and is the same OS as Cheetah. If you TRULY believe that iOS hasn't changed much since 2007, please prove me wrong and go back to iOS 1.0. Better yet, please go get that new Blackberry. Can't stand to hear anymore of you Chicken Little's anymore. Like nails on a chalkboard.
 
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Ryth

macrumors 68000
Apr 21, 2011
1,591
157
except that ios has hardly changed since its first release, and android already holds a bigger share of the smartphone market.

There goes that 'Android' fandroidism.

Compare Apples to Apples please.

Only reason Android has a bigger share is more phones that have all sorts of versions of Android and more sandboxes.

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I'm not saying that Apple can afford to stand still. But it's a freaking delusional joke that you think Blackberry's going to take back its marketshare with this phone. Esp after it's lost its corporate clientele who have also all moved onto either iOS or Android. "Writing on the wall"?? You're preparing the obituary for Apple because of one phone announcement, and I'm in the "reality distortion" field?

Especially with a phone that is within a phone design...this thing is horrible looking. It's like a screen inside a phone that is then bordered top and bottom by another border/holder.

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You might want to read Pogue's NYT review. There are several features that will be "trump cards" for certain users. The predictive typing he describes is certainly quite attractive to me. The only question is how many users will choose this. My guess is that BB10 will be sufficiently popular among financial and legal professionals (and other similar-profile users) to put this in the #3 position behind Android and iPhone within a year. After that, time will tell.

No one is going to invest their companies money into the new BB phone if they've already gone iOS and iPhones. Just ain't going to happen because there is no sure thing that BB will be around another 2 years. Apple you know will be around for 10+ years.

Too little too late and still too far behind even with this new phone.
 

IlluminatedSage

macrumors 68000
Aug 1, 2000
1,563
339
I am happy to have the Blackberry option again. If they make a good product... it give Apple more to strive to. Also, honestly Apple's email solution in the iphone kinda is lacking compared to blackberry.

I prefer having my emails more accessible than IOS can provide. Way better for work.

My inclination is to test the keyboard version... if i like it.. buy it and have both phones.
 

Lobwedgephil

Contributor
Apr 7, 2012
5,707
4,646
I am happy to have the Blackberry option again. If they make a good product... it give Apple more to strive to. Also, honestly Apple's email solution in the iphone kinda is lacking compared to blackberry.

I prefer having my emails more accessible than IOS can provide. Way better for work.

My inclination is to test the keyboard version... if i like it.. buy it and have both phones.

Let me know how you like BB10 with no push email, unless you use Exchange.
I have an iphone 5 and old blackberry for work, so was looking forward to this, but no push email for my work is a disappointment.
 

peterdevries

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2008
3,146
1,135
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
No one is going to invest their companies money into the new BB phone if they've already gone iOS and iPhones.

There are still many business that use "old" blackberries and were looking at other products from iOS and Android or WIndows Phone. These companies might now choose to stay with Blackberry as switching costs are high.

Just ain't going to happen because there is no sure thing that BB will be around another 2 years. Apple you know will be around for 10+ years.

You can't be sure of either of these things. Businesses can disappear for a variety of reasons. Look at Enron. Not saying Apple is involved with fraud, but there is no way of knowing what will happen in the next 5 years. Maybe another new company surfaces with even better products.
 

flux73

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2009
1,019
134
And after writing all that above, it's really quite simple. Blackberry needed to surpass the competition. By a lot. But they only caught up to them. At best. That's inadequate.

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You can't be sure of either of these things. Businesses can disappear for a variety of reasons. Look at Enron. Not saying Apple is involved with fraud, but there is no way of knowing what will happen in the next 5 years. Maybe another new company surfaces with even better products.
It's not simply a matter of a better product. Apple's iPhone has succeeded because of its ecosystem that required essentially the last 10 years to develop. No one else has developed the 'long game' the way Apple has. Google and Microsoft are the only ones trying, but that's because they have the resources. BB cannot do what Google and MS are trying to do. They cannot win on product alone. Not anymore.

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And whats the iPhone without apps?

A dated and tired mobile OS.

Which is exactly what happened to Blackberry.

So get core apps out of the box and access to thousands more in an app store and you've leveled the playing field against Apple. Just because Apple got the "app craze" going first doesn't mean they'll always be around to keep selling them. RIM was the smartphone leader and started that craze, and they fell hard. The iPhone needs more than third party apps to survive.
Oh, so it's THAT easy to get all those apps? Gee, why didn't Google or Microsoft think of that??
 

peterdevries

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2008
3,146
1,135
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
[/COLOR]It's not simply a matter of a better product. Apple's iPhone has succeeded because of its ecosystem that required essentially the last 10 years to develop. No one else has developed the 'long game' the way Apple has. Google and Microsoft are the only ones trying, but that's because they have the resources. BB cannot do what Google and MS are trying to do. They cannot win on product alone. Not anymore.

I totally agree, but we are seeing currently that other manufacturers are catching up to Apple. Look at RIM itself. It is the only manufacturer besides Apple that is controlling the OS as well as the hardware. The ecosystem of Apps , Music and Video is easy to duplicate nowadays. Sure BB is far behind in Apps, but it seems quite easy to port Angry Birds over to BB10, so we will see a lot more of that. I'm not a developer, but if I were I would really look at BB to see whether I can expand my market by porting my apps.

We will (hopefully) not see the same things as with Android where the OS is slapped on hardware that is not fit to run a calculator.
BB is now well positioned to take over Windows Phone.
 
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