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jwm2

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2012
231
0
And what 'cord' needs cutting with a console? Sure the Xbox has Xbox Gold membership, but the PS3 has no subscription.

Also, what difference is there if you buy a game from an AppStore or a shop? You're still paying for the game, you're not getting any sort of contractual discount like you do with Netflix vs Satellite.

Hardly a comparison really is it.

The point was i don't need another console if its built into a box i aleady have connected to my tv. And if they come out with a newer version due to the fact i already love the current version, i'm more likely to buy 4 of them. I actually have 4 apple tvs and 4 rokus in my home right now. Each tv has 2 devices, 1 roku and one apple tv. The roku's were bought before apple tvs could be jailbroken, so they mainly are just there because i'm too lazy to go around and collect them. But we've been using set top boxes for years and wouldn't dream of going back to satellite tv or connecting another unit to our entertainment system just to play games. The point is if apple makes apps available for the apple tv then thats fewer consoles that will be sold to folks like myself who actually bought 4 of them the last generation. I personally don't see myself buying a single next generation console and for the last 30+ years i've bought them ALL.
 

7thson

macrumors 65816
May 13, 2012
1,343
1,438
Six Rivers, CA
I guess this guy isn't the kind of developer that Steve Balmer was getting all worked up about on stage that one time. Apple should do this, just to make the veins on Balmer's forehead throb. :p
 

TheHateMachine

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2012
846
1,354
If that were the case, why are we not seeing all console games being ported in full to iOS? Instead we see cut down, poor gfx games.

Yea, and what most of these people who spout this fail to realise is that all the graphically intense games mostly seem to be games on rails. If they allow more freedom then certain cuts have to be made... like lower res textures, laughable low polygon counts or just plain running the game at a lower resolution and "upscaling it".

Besides graphics aren't everything. Add in the fact that the gameplay is laughable simple in these mobile games, the simple story and forgettable lore and it really showcases the limited budget of these dev games. The only mobile game I can think of off the top of my head that actually made me prioritize playing it over my PC or console was Civilzation Revolutions. Even then the short comings of that bastardized version of Civ led me to shelve it after a month.
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
The point was i don't need another console if its built into a box i aleady have connected to my tv. And if they come out with a newer version due to the fact i already love the current version, i'm more likely to buy 4 of them. I actually have 4 apple tvs and 4 rokus in my home right now. Each tv has 2 devices, 1 roku and one apple tv. The roku's were bought before apple tvs could be jailbroken, so they mainly are just there because i'm too lazy to go around and collect them. But we've been using set top boxes for years and wouldn't dream of going back to satellite tv or connecting another unit to our entertainment system just to play games. The point is if apple makes apps available for the apple tv then thats fewer consoles that will be sold to folks like myself who actually bought 4 of them the last generation. I personally don't see myself buying a single next generation console and for the last 30+ years i've bought them ALL.

Why are you even in this discussion then? :confused:

You're basically dismissing all future consoles just because you personally dont want them, and ergo they must be a poor choice for everyone.

The Apple TV is not an option for people who enjoy 'real' games, games that rely on good graphics (take a game of Formula 1 - that is 100% about graphics. Poor graphics = a poor game in a lot more cases than you may think.
 

Jamez1502

macrumors newbie
Oct 6, 2011
29
0
Manchester, UK
The thing thats driven gaming up to now (for the most part) is graphics capabilities. The apple TV which is getting smaller and cheaper just isn't capable of churning out graphics at the level gamers want it, so for now I think the console market is pretty safe.
 

Muscle Master

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2010
581
113
Philadelphia
It's nothing like grabbing a few beers and sitting in front of your 65 inch plasma and playing your Xbox and winning, arguing, losing with friends over Xbox Live.. from Madden to Halo
 

yakapo

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2008
254
235
Destroy the xbox / ps3 market? I doubt it. Steal 25%-35% of their market? Very possible.

I bought a rayman game for my wife's ipad. I played it 30 min. and then deleted it. I probably will never install it again. $3 - no big deal. I think the same game (or something similar) is $40 for the vita.

Now that the next gen xbox and ps4 are possibly eliminating the ability to play used games, there is a gaping hole in the console market for Apple to fill. Not everyone wants to spend $60 on a new console game. I think I bought 2 games for my ps3. It's primarily used as a blu ray player. I seriously doubt I'm getting the ps4. If the new xbox doesn't let you play used games I won't be buying it either. Now if apple makes a video game console / apple tv product, I'd pick it up w/o hesitation.
 

mchart

macrumors member
Feb 13, 2013
71
91
Yea, and what most of these people who spout this fail to realise is that all the graphically intense games mostly seem to be games on rails. If they allow more freedom then certain cuts have to be made... like lower res textures, laughable low polygon counts or just plain running the game at a lower resolution and "upscaling it".

Besides graphics aren't everything. Gameplay is laughable simple in these mobile games and the story/lore really showcase the limited budget of these dev games. The only mobile game I can think of off the top of my head that actually made me prioritize playing it over my PC or console was Civilzation Revolutions. Even then the short comings of that bastardized version of Civ led me to shelve it after a month.

You've just unknowingly responded with an answer to your own dissent.

The mobile platform(s) such as iOS suffer from low budgets, and an input method that makes it difficult to make traditional games for.

If Apple made an Apple TV with an A6X, a controller, and lots of storage - You'd see more publishers and developers start pushing real AAA titles. The issue is not one of hardware prowess. You can tell yourself this all you want - It doesn't make it so.
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
Destroy the xbox / ps3 market? I doubt it. Steal 25%-35% of their market? Very possible.

I bought a rayman game for my wife's ipad. I played it 30 min. and then deleted it. I probably will never install it again. $3 - no big deal. I think the same game (or something similar) is $40 for the vita.

Now that the next gen xbox and ps4 are possibly eliminating the ability to play used games, there is a gaping hole in the console market for Apple to fill. Not everyone wants to spend $60 on a new console game. I think I bought 2 games for my ps3. It's primarily used as a blu ray player. I seriously doubt I'm getting the ps4. If the new xbox doesn't let you play used games I won't be buying it either. Now if apple makes a video game console / apple tv product, I'd pick it up w/o hesitation.

Your post just made me have a quick think.

The Wii market would probably be killed by an AppStore being shoved on the AppleTV. Most Wii games are pretty simple, generally 'dumb' games by console standards, and most of them (at least the Nintendo made ones) would be perfectly suited for something like the ATV. The family game market that the Wii covers is pretty small, but would probably be something Apple could take on.

Apple TV wont ever have squat on the likes of the Xbox and Playstation.

----------

You've just unknowingly responded with an answer to your own dissent.

The mobile platform(s) such as iOS suffer from low budgets, and an input method that makes it difficult to make traditional games for.

If Apple made an Apple TV with an A6X, a controller, and lots of storage - You'd see more publishers and developers start pushing real AAA titles.

Yes they would. But the graphics and performance would still be an issue.

It's not the storage that's the problem, in a lot of cases its the performance. Because the development API's are so locked down, it makes it hard to memory manage your apps, Ever played X-Plane on your iPad? It suffers from this problem quite noticeably.
 

Daws001

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2011
449
274
The States
A standard gaming controller by Apple would be a epic. I have dreams of my iPad becoming a portable console some day. Just need that damn controller.
 

TMar

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,679
1
Ky
I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.

Yes, I owned all of them growing up. First computer game (if you don't count programmed commodore 64 ones) was mech warrior. Heretic, doom and was running quake MP in the computer lab at school. I have all the current consoles collecting dust because I tend to PC game most of the time. I mobile game often because it's easy to pick up and put down when I'm out or during commercials or watching shows the other half likes. Not because the market is pivoting but because I can't consciously devote time to sit down and have that be the one thing I'm doing.

Like I said my parents are all ways playing their $5 handheld poker/whatever games, should they be considered gamers? It's two completely different thought processes that go into having a game be that one thing your doing or wasting a few minutes on a game while doing something else. Your kids aren't gamers. My parents aren't gamers. My other half with whatever iOS game she's been playing isn't a gamer. She wastes many hours a day with her different story game (farm, pet, whatever) while at work or watching TV. Make a conscious choice to do that on the TV instead of watching something is not something she would do.

Moral of the story is the mobile gaming and 'gaming' (console or PC) is two completely different things. Two completely different groups of people (there is some overlap). Most people aren't moving from one camp to the other.
 

mozumder

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,275
4,397
Apps on Apple TV will largely be useless

People actually pay for good content, which is why they'll pay for a $300 xBox.

Remember most people bought iPhones not to play Angry birds, but to use as phones with a web browser/email. No one buys iPhones to play games. There is very little value in the portable gaming market. It's all niche content.

An Apple TV with low-quality games will be competing against xBox with games developed with hundred million dollar budgets.. there's going to be no question which one people are going to pick.

An AppleTV with games will end up being like the Wii, which is pretty much dead.
 

epmatsw

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2007
78
1
People actually pay for good content, which is why they'll pay for a $300 xBox.

Remember most people bought iPhones not to play Angry birds, but to use as phones with a web browser/email. No one buys iPhones to play games. There is very little value in the portable gaming market. It's all niche content.

An Apple TV with low-quality games will be competing against xBox with games developed with hundred million dollar budgets.. there's going to be no question which one people are going to pick.

An AppleTV with games will end up being like the Wii, which is pretty much dead.

Reality has a Wii bias
 

SAD*FACED*CLOWN

macrumors 65816
Apr 5, 2010
1,342
1
Houston, TX
Really? Retailers would fight it? Guess what those same retailers are being done in by this next generation of consoles that won't be capable of playing used games. Halo or Black Ops on a mobile platform? Theres already several games that replicate those to an extent on the mobile platform for a fraction of the price. The real dealbreaker will be when nintendo stops making hardware and releases mario for iOS. Its coming, trust me.

we'll see, old Japanese companies tend to die hard...nothing will ever replace the sensation of firing up your xbox or playstation after just getting back from gamestop and ripping off that shribk wrap....I know apple has digitized music but there's a reason retailers still sale discs and records on wax...because people want them
 

SmileyBlast!

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2011
654
43
Why can't they add a usb port to allow for external hdds?

I was hoping they could use your network area storage on your Gigabit LAN for storage.

That way they don't have to add any new hardware and my old gen 2 :apple: TV will be game/app ready.
I think the :apple: TV only has 8 GBs.
 

herr_neumann

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2003
327
4
Roseville, Ca
Again no. It's a convince thing. You're out and bored, it's easy to play a game for 5 minutes. Those same people are not going to make a conscious choice to sit in front of a TV and do the same thing let alone do it for an extended period of time. Mobile gaming is what you do to waste time when you're doing other things. Console gaming is a conscious choice to sit and just do that. The people who only mobile game, if sitting in front of a TV, will choose to watch TV rather than play games.

Are you saying currently there is not a casual game market for consoles? If so, is that not a huge untapped market? Small games I can come back to when I have 10-15 min to kill.

I have a Wii, PS3 and XBox 360, but hardly using anything but the PS3 and generally that is for streaming Hulu. I wish I had the time to spend a few hours at a time progressing through a game like I used to, but I don't.
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
I was hoping they could use your network area storage on your Gigabit LAN for storage.

That way they don't have to add any new hardware and my old gen 2 :apple: TV will be game/app ready.
I think the :apple: TV only has 8 GBs.

Game performance when the game is stored on a NAS would be horribly slow.
 

Mabus51

Suspended
Aug 16, 2007
1,366
847
A lot of people don't realize that after the first update it costs $32,000 to submit another update for an X-Box game or even a Playstation game. Some indie devs have taken some serious heat for not updating their games. It simply boils down to the cost of doing so. I have to agree that this idea of recertification is not only dated but just not as cost effective to smaller developers. I'd much rather give 30% profit of sales than outright paying $32,000 to fix a glitch or add/change something to a game.
 

LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
4,798
0
Way to take it out of context. He said there's no chance at the price of 500 dollars subsidized (for 4gb model) which is what it started at. Apple soon lowered it to 200.

Irrelevant. The point is he didn't foresee any major Apple incursion into the mobile phone market. Just like the commenter I responded to can't foresee any major Apple incursion into TV-based gaming.

I wouldn't bet against Apple.
 

herr_neumann

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2003
327
4
Roseville, Ca
Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.

And why do you need all 16GB at once? An initial dl of ~1GB (arbitrary number, 500MB? I don't know what the right number is.) with background 50-100MB downloads as you progress seems to be a logical way to get around this. Why store data you do not need?
 
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