They provide market liquidity and arbitrage.Can someone remind me again what's good about hedge funds?
The fact most of them lose money or do no better than the S&P is actually good for everyone else generally.
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They provide market liquidity and arbitrage.Can someone remind me again what's good about hedge funds?
This method of "porking up" proposals is nothing new. Just look at the U.S. Congress.filed a lawsuit earlier this month asking that Apple be prevented from bundling a number of proposals into one ballot question at the shareholders meeting.
Their reasoning for issuing preferred stock with a perpetual dividend, provided to each shareholder, is to provide one more pipeline of capital and income to shareholders.
The Apple BoD has determined a common stock dividend is sufficient, stock buy backs are sufficient, and the capital they have in the form of cash is serving a valuable purpose to protect from catastrophie, to invest in supply chain which shockingly few companies do at all, and buying firms on a regular basis. Apple currently only has common stock.
I'll take a stab...can someone explain to me like a 9 year old on what the hell is going on?
how about explain it to me like a 5 year old?
Once Apple issued a dividend, which it has not done in many years, it added an entire class of institutional investor that requires income to consider the stock. AAPL yields about 2.4% right now. A 10 year treasury (assumed 100% safe) yields only 1.9%. Goal already accomplished. Recently.Some people/hedge funds will be less likely to invest in it. eg Stock value gets lowered.
Keep in mind that while Einhorn would like them to issue preferred stock, it's just a proposal. What he's actually suing about is that Apple is trying to take away that option, not because Apple won't issue preferred stock.Once Apple issued a dividend, which it has not done in many years, it added an entire class of institutional investor that requires income to consider the stock. AAPL yields about 2.4% right now. A 10 year treasury (assumed 100% safe) yields only 1.9%. Goal already accomplished. Recently.
How so? It simultaneously provides investors peace of mind and stabilizes the stock. People are more likely to let their investment sit and take a chance on Apple's future if their money is going to earn 4%.Also issuing Preferred stock AND ALSO declaring it to have a PERPETUAL dividend is just greedy and unlikely and bad policy given the political turmoil we are going through right now.
Your argument is true, but the 2.3% is clearly not enough to move the stock price.
His proposal is that since the preferred stock would issue higher dividends - something like 4% - it would attract a lot more investors. Which would in turn boost the common stock price. All without touching Apple's cash hoard. It's actually a fairly clever idea.
Why would Apple want to do though?
They provide market liquidity and arbitrage.
The fact most of them lose money or do no better than the S&P is actually good for everyone else generally.
A floor is not what Einhorn wants. He wants the value to go up.It puts a floor on the price since it is inverse to yield.
Issuing preferred stock raises capital, so it doesn't. Let's say they issue one share of preferred stock at $50. Then they only pay you $0.50 out of that $50 every 3 months. The net cash is +$50 right off the bat.Nope. Any dividend would reduce net cash.
No, preferred stock does NOT dilute shareholder value unless it's converted. That's the whole purpose of issuing preferred stock - to not dilute the common stock - while raising working capital.Any stock issue would dilute shareholder value. Issuing a Preferred offering is a special case of diluting shareholder value with securities that have superior claim to assets!
Most of Apple's cash hoard is unusable because it's outside of the country and they can't bring it in without being taxed heavily @ 35%. Only a small proportion (I think around $40 billion) is in the US and thus would count as "working capital". $40 billion is a lot but maybe not enough for what Apple really needs to start off Apple TV.If nothing else, Apple has enough capital and does not need to issue more stock to get capital. Therefore any interest to motivate such an effort would be literally a waste of money.
Again, he's suing because Apple is taking away the option, not because they haven't done it. He's merely presenting this as a way they could accomplish multiple goals IF THEY WANTED TO. To take away the option is what's pointless and that's why he's suing.I can understand why Einhorn wishes Apple issues Preferred stock and a perpetual dividend, but AAPL BoD would have to be very stupid to do it.
That is really the issue at hand here. Einhorn believes that the cash Apple has collected belongs to the shareholders, and is not something the board can just sit on.
My personal opinion is boo-frickin-hoo. If you are that upset with the company, sell your stock and get out. I own shares, and hope Apple tells this guy to stuff it. They did not build their empire by cashing in on iPods and dispersing money to shareholders - they went and build the iPhone and iPad. That turned out pretty well for all of us shareholders as well.
Can someone remind me again what's good about hedge funds?
Without getting political, that was caused by the FEDGOV increasing liquidity to investment banks and commercial banks after 9/11/01, the FEDGOV policy of issuing mortgages to folks with limited credit and income, and the NGO FHA securitizing those mortgages. Bubble formed.These are the same morons that sent us over the 2008 cliff that we still have not recovered from.
He's there for entertainment value. He does offer good *general* investment advice, but it's nothing new. Where you get into trouble is if you listen to his specific stock advice.When I think of hedge funds I think of Jim Cramer and its not pretty thoughts. Amazing he still has a high profile job on CNBC.
Once Apple issued a dividend, which it has not done in many years, it added an entire class of institutional investor that requires income to consider the stock. AAPL yields about 2.4% right now. A 10 year treasury (assumed 100% safe) yields only 1.9%. Goal already accomplished. Recently.
Apple CEO Tim Cook called the lawsuit a "silly sideshow" and "a waste of money for all involved",
When I think of hedge funds I think of Jim Cramer and its not pretty thoughts. Amazing he still has a high profile job on CNBC.
The job of the Board of Directors is to represent the interests of the shareholders. Which means maximize the value of their investment. Granted there are many ways to do this.
Einhorn is correct that the cash is owned by the shareholders, along with the rest of the company's assets. If Apple doesn't like it they should have never gone public.
So you're saying. "Apple is successful and has earned investors lots of money. So lets destroy them and sell the pieces."
Can someone remind me again what's good about hedge funds?
I wanted to add my 2 cents as well about the broader situation.
When I buy Apple stock, I become an owner of the company. I expect the managers to run the company in a way that provides me with a return on my investment. Apple has done well at this for some time. However, there is one really glaring issue, and that is how much CASH apple has.
Companies need cash to function, and they want to keep enough on hand so that they don't have to borrow. They need to be able to do strategic things like purchase other companies, invest in facilities, etc.
What has happened is that Apple has not managed their cash well. They literally have more money than they know what to do with. As an owner this is bad. If they can figure out something to do with that money, they need to give it to the owners to find someone who does know what to do with it. Apple has admitted that they have too much money, but they have done a poor job of laying out plans to return this money to shareholders.
Einhorn may be an jerk, but Apple brought this on themselves because they couldn't find things to do with their cash and they didn't give it out in a way that made their owners happy. Having a $100 Billion is great if you have plans for it. If you don't it actually hurts your stock price. I know it is counter intuitive, but their is a certain level at which having more cash makes the stock worth less. If Apple was making their owners happy, then this wouldn't happen.
I found this report interesting. The investors and banksters that sent us into 2008 now want to tell the most valuable company in the world (that built it's value during their recession) what to do? And a judge says .... sure...
What a piece of junk system! My 0.02
I found this report interesting. The investors and banksters that sent us into 2008 now want to tell the most valuable company in the world (that built it's value during their recession) what to do? And a judge says .... sure...
What a piece of junk system! My 0.02