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steve-p

macrumors 68000
Oct 14, 2008
1,740
42
Newbury, UK
Wow, about 99% of you need to read the Bible...

I'd start with Romans 1.

If the people who place some credence in it stopped doing so, stopped hiding behind it as an excuse for bigotry and discrimination, and started using their own judgement for a change, maybe the world would be a better place.
 

phillipduran

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,055
607
Why should I? You are under the false impression that we give a crap about your book of fairytales when in actuality we put zero credence in it.

You are under the false impression that you speak for us. Some of the "we" you refer to do understand the bible.

I was in the military and I was taught to understand my enemies. To understand the other sides point of view. How about you pick up a bible and understand what is in there. Once you do that, please rejoin the conversation.

----------

If the people who place some credence in it stopped doing so, stopped hiding behind it as an excuse for bigotry and discrimination, and started using their own judgement for a change, maybe the world would be a better place.

Or it might be far, far worse.
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
I feel Apple (or any company, for that matter) should not be getting involved in a moral issue. Especially a moral issue related to sex, the most intimate of all the things we do as a species!!! It is not necessary.

Someone here said no one should care about another person's morality. That we should "live and let live". I disagree; that morality is being taught to others as the truth, like an elementary school teacher would do, for example. Now an individual would have to pick and choose where to send their kids to school, fragmenting our society.

Unfortunately, as we live together we will encounter situations where the definition of what is or isn't immoral becomes relevant, especially in the establishment of laws and the like.

I feel that what people do (consensually) in the privacy of their home is their business. But when it is brought into the public eye the it could, and should, be met with scrutiny and discussion.

Homosexual behavior is sexual deviance. Although it is primarily consensual and relatively harmless, it is still deviance. It is not necessary to ascribe to a religious or even moral point of view to realize this. And as is expected, there may be unpleasant consequences to sexual deviance, should they be made public. In the past, the consequences have been severe, even violent, and without compassion, which brought about a push towards tolerance and acceptance that ignores the "condition" that homosexuals are subject to. Let me explain what I mean:

The purpose and design of the sexual organs is reproduction. They generate pleasure to facilitate and encourage procreation and the generation of human beings. When individuals choose to generate pleasure without procreation then they are deviating from the primary purpose of the organs. Obviously, human procreation requires male and female. As such, homosexual behavior is in direct contravention to the purpose and design of the very organs utilized in the act. Individuals with homosexual tendencies have a severe disconnect of the mind and the body: they feel that they we're born in "the wrong body", so to speak. With this in mind, it seems oxymoronic to say that homosexual behavior is "right" or "acceptable" or "normal", when there is an obvious psychological discrepancy in individuals subject to such behavior.

For me this begs the questions: Just because we can do something, should we do it? What other types of sexual deviance are we going to allow to become acceptable? What consequences, psychological or otherwise are they going to bring upon others?

Our country is going through a time of great change, and this debate will go on for a while. But I feel that the issue is not related to civil rights, as determined by race. The issue is sexual preference; the very word indicates choice. It is impossible for a man to change his race. It is possible to not engage in homosexual behavior. The two are now linked in the general public's perception (or at least the media), but they are nowhere near the same thing. And as a society, this issue can, and does, cause great division. Morality is integrated into societal living, but the society has to agree in what is right and wrong. When societies don't agree, war ensues.

"Live and let live" is just too simplistic a concept, especially for this issue. And companies should not be "taking a position" on issues such as this.


So if the purpose of sex is reproduction, I assume you are against allowing marriage of a male and a female where one of the partners is physically incapable of conceiving a child due to medical reasons? I also assume you have never used contraception, had sex that did not result in a pregnancy, or have a wank on a boring, lonely night where the only thing worth watching on TV was the softcore porn on Cinemax?

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Wow, about 99% of you need to read the Bible...

I'd start with Romans 1.

I disagree, I think about 1% of you need to stop reading the Bible and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
You are under the false impression that you speak for us. Some of the "we" you refer to do understand the bible.

I was in the military and I was taught to understand my enemies. To understand the other sides point of view. How about you pick up a bible and understand what is in there. Once you do that, please rejoin the conversation.

My "enemies" as you refer to them, put their faith in a 2000 year old book of fairytales and use it to justify their bigotry. What more is there to understand? I get it, the bible says homosexuality is evil. But since the bible is fictional, it's irrelevant. The bible would be worth reading if there were a word of truth in it. Let go of your little book and rejoin us in 2013.
 

bdavis89

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2009
174
19
Can you provide an example of this? Has "something else" happened in Canada? Spain? Any other country that's legalized gay marriage?

Are you saying that after we have gay rights, all will be right with the world? There will be no more fighting for rights, privileges, etc? That the human race, the most advanced species on the planet, will be complacent? Hasn't happened yet and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Gay rights is reaching its peak 40 years after Black rights. Time is everything.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
Are you saying that after we have gay rights, all will be right with the world? There will be no more fighting for rights, privileges, etc?

Who the hell is saying that? It won't fix the world, so because of that we shouldn't legalize it? Where is your logic?
 

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
I disagree, I think about 1% of you need to stop reading the Bible and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

From what I can gather about you, you are a liberal atheist. And my guess is that you therefore mostly associate with liberals and/or atheists. So, you may not realize that the majority of Americans are actually religious and read the Bible.

I have a Ph.D. and associate with lots of people who have doctorates, and I am amazed when I hear about how many people still don't graduate from high school. But, don't confuse the fact that most bloggers are liberal and atheist with that representing the majority, because it is not. You can tell people you don't think the Bible is relevant, but it's not the 1% that you're taking to.
 

bdavis89

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2009
174
19
Who the hell is saying that? It won't fix the world, so because of that we shouldn't legalize it? Where is your logic?

Wow. No.

I was stating that once Gay marriage is legalized, there will be another issue in the future.

Class rights in the middle ages, slaves, women, blacks, now homosexuals. Its the progression.

Swiftlives was asking questions as if I was from the future, implying that everything would be hunky-dory once we have gay rights.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
From what I can gather about you, you are a liberal atheist. And my guess is that you therefore mostly associate with liberals and/or atheists. So, you may not realize that the majority of Americans are actually religious and read the Bible.

I have a Ph.D. and associate with lots of people who have doctorates, and I am amazed when I hear about how many people still don't graduate from high school. But, don't confuse the fact that most bloggers are liberal and atheist with that representing the majority, because it is not. You can tell people you don't think the Bible is relevant, but it's not the 1% that you're taking to.

The bible and US law have no connection to one another. And no, the majority of americans are not religious. Where do you get your surveys from? Atheism is the fastest growing non-belief in the country right now. Society as a whole is becoming less religious. The US is a secular nation. Just because a portion of our society chooses to cling on to old superstitions, does that mean we should acknowledge those superstitions as truth?
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
From what I can gather about you, you are a liberal atheist. And my guess is that you therefore mostly associate with liberals and/or atheists. So, you may not realize that the majority of Americans are actually religious and read the Bible.

I have a Ph.D. and associate with lots of people who have doctorates, and I am amazed when I hear about how many people still don't graduate from high school. But, don't confuse the fact that most bloggers are liberal and atheist with that representing the majority, because it is not. You can tell people you don't think the Bible is relevant, but it's not the 1% that you're taking to.

I do realize the majority of Americans still read the bible, which is disturbing to me. The 1% was referencing the few people in this thread who still use their religion as an excuse to hate and discriminate.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
I do realize the majority of Americans still read the bible, which is disturbing to me.

To read and to take literally are two very different things. A small minority of Americans actually take the bible word for word.
 

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
The bible and US law have no connection to one another. And no, the majority of americans are not religious. Where do you get your surveys from? Atheism is the fastest growing non-belief in the country right now. Society as a whole is becoming less religious. The US is a secular nation. Just because a portion of our society chooses to cling on to old superstitions, does that mean we should acknowledge those superstitions as truth?

The 2012 religion in America survey found that 19% of Americans have no religious affiliation, which is growing, but still a minority.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-07-19/no-religion-affiliation/56344976/1
 

Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
1,792
1,389
I'm surprised that there are still so many "People full of hate, bitterness and spitefulness" in the 21st Century.

Some of you sound as if you would be more at home in the "Middle Ages" or with the Taliban.

Love is a very beautiful thing, why deny that to anyone?
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ

CalWizrd

Suspended
Jun 21, 2011
385
1,637
NYC/Raleigh, NC
The 2012 religion in America survey found that 19% of Americans have no religious affiliation, which is growing, but still a minority...

This is going to become a semantics issue.

There is a very large difference between people having a religious affiliation and those that consider themselves 'religious'

I'm Jewish by birth, so yes, I have a religious affiliation in referring to myself as Jewish. Am I a religious individual? Not by a very, very long shot.
 

GREEN4U

macrumors 6502a
Mar 24, 2010
678
392
Romans is written by the apostle Paul who visits Rome and addresses the worsening state of society, which embraces lust, greed, homosexuality, etc. This is the exact same direction our present world is headed, where the majority of people think this immoral behavior is normal. Our society promotes tolerance and intolerance of those who aren't tolerant; this is completely backwards according to the Word of God. But then skip to chapter 5 of Romans. Even though we fall short of God in our immoral behavior we can be saved and have eternal life by accepting the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ to change our hearts and actions.

Thus, the true Christian attitude towards homosexuality is not of hate or intolerance, but of love. The truth is that if we recognize our sin (whether its homosexuality or whatever you deal with) and accept Jesus Christ into our heart we may have everlasting life.
 

SwiftLives

macrumors 65816
Dec 7, 2001
1,356
341
Charleston, SC
Wow. No.

I was stating that once Gay marriage is legalized, there will be another issue in the future.

Class rights in the middle ages, slaves, women, blacks, now homosexuals. Its the progression.

Swiftlives was asking questions as if I was from the future, implying that everything would be hunky-dory once we have gay rights.

No, I was just attempting to see if your comment below had any basis in reality or any historical context. So far, you haven't been able to support your supposition that the "next step is polygamy"

Next step is polygamy.

Anyone who thinks it will stop at gay rights is naive.
 

likemyorbs

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,956
5
NJ
Romans is written by the apostle Paul who visits Rome and addresses the worsening state of society, which embraces lust, greed, homosexuality, etc. This is the exact same direction our present world is headed, where the majority of people think this immoral behavior is normal. Our society promotes tolerance and intolerance of those who aren't tolerant; this is completely backwards according to the Word of God. But then skip to chapter 5 of Romans. Even though we fall short of God in our immoral behavior we can be saved and have eternal life by accepting the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ to change our hearts and actions.

Thus, the true Christian attitude towards homosexuality is not of hate or intolerance, but of love. The truth is that if we recognize our sin (whether its homosexuality or whatever you deal with) and accept Jesus Christ into our heart we may have everlasting life.
You still don't get it do you? You are referencing your religion as if it is a fact. It is not. It's a myth, and most of us don't accept it as truth. So why do you keep quoting it as if its relevant to our thought process regarding same sex marriage?
 
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