Which Smart ups?

I have been using a APC SmartUPS 1500 for several years with no problems.

When it comes to UPS, I only trust APC. I have an old Back-UPS 1500 with additional battary pack in use for many years. I have replaced the batteries in them once.

During hurricane Sandy, when the lights started to flicker, I had more than ample time to power down my equipment before suffering any damage.

I don't understand how it can damage your Mac Pro. What did they mean??

My Mac Pro has the same power supply yours does and my UPS has been working fine. I also have a 30" monitor, FiOS modem, FiOS ONT, router, and speakers connected to it.

In simple terms, a true "Sine Wave" output mimics the power coming from your electrical outlets and provides more total power (energy) to your computer than does a "Step Wave" output which has many gaps. This causes the power supply in your computer to work harder to deliver the required current needs when running from a stepped input waveform.

Until I see reports of many people suffering damage from these units, I'm not going to let a hypothetical situation bother me.

I'm saying I, personally, am not going to let it bother me. I've already gone through three different systems using the same UPS and have never had an issue. The step wave scenario sounds a bit like fear mongering to me. Heck, I could get struck by lightning later...

tony3d said:

According to the estimated time remaining it claims it will power my Mac Pro 23 minutes. Hell I only need about 3 to save, and shutdown.

Click to expand...

Is there actually a need to do a shutdown, why not just sleep? I'd imagine the machine could sleep for a long time off the UPS battery. Hybernate mode 3 writes to both RAM and disk so if the power is lost completely the machine will later wake from the disk as normal. I don't have a UPS yet to test this, so this is just my thinking.

There is an alternative supplier remember - CyberPower. The forum search will show you plenty of threads.

As long as you buy a Pure Sinewave model rather than a Stepped Sinewave you will be fine. For APC that means the SmartUPS (pure) not the BackUPS (stepped) range.

I use a SMT1000 on the Mac Pro in my signature and am quoted 45-50 minutes at idle (less at load of course). A SMT1500 would give you more headroom and the unit is the same physical size.

Of course the actual exposure to potential damage only occurs while under a power outage when your computer is powered by the UPS. Normally you are on line power and the UPS is on idle standby.

It isn't "hypothetical", it is a real threat in the event of a power failure. It doesn't matter how long you have been running your system from a UPS without problems ... what matters is what happens to your equipment WHEN the power fails and the UPS becomes your source of power. Do you feel lucky with your expensive Mac Pro?

I use the same APC SmartUPS 1500 units on my home theater installations for the screen and satellite recorders. With the screen off, it will run the recorders (and satellite electronics) for several hours to continue to record shows otherwise unaffected by the regional power outage as they are satellite based.

If anyone is interested in the whole "Can a stepped sine wave damage your PSU?" thing, I'd advise you read this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=15307344#post15307344

There is a link on page two that leads to this PDF:

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c02492972/c02492972.pdf

Which correlates with what nanofrog was saying, and I quote:

Using a UPS with a square wave inverter will cause computer power supplies to run hotter, operate less efficiently, and have a shorter life than using a UPS with a pure sine wave inverter.

Click to expand...

If you've invested big bucks in a Mac Pro, you might as well buy a proper UPS for it. Whether or not the Mac Pro is actually effected by a stepped sine wave is somewhat irrelevant, the equipment was designed to run off a pure sine wave and any UPS that outputs otherwise is simply a cheap unit.

I've been running an older Smart-UPS 1500VA unit for years now. Replaced the battery pack twice. Built like a tank, runs perfectly. OS X can pick these units up automatically over USB and offer you the relevant shutdown options in System Preferences without third party software (for example, mine is configured to shut down the computer when the % remaining drops below 25%, and restart automatically after the power is restored).

-SC

I had my 2008 Mac Pro for over 5 years and it ran pretty much 24/7 throughout that time. The machine ran well and continues to run well to this day. Prior to that, I had PowerMac MDD that also ran pretty much 24/7 for over 5 years. Both were on this same stepped wave APC UPS. Even if a stepped wave UPS can cause my machines to run hotter and/or shorten their lives, it's not enough to affect me. By the time, a stepped wave UPS'es potential/theoretical adverse properties take affect and they will be long retired by me.

Theoretically, I really shouldn't go out during tomorrow's thunderstorm while holding an umbrella since the umbrella can act as a lightning rod, but I will because USPS has a package that I really want so I will. The odds of it actually affecting me are low enough for me to ignore.

*Note: I didn't read the message thread or PDF and will not.

DanielCoffey said:

There is an alternative supplier remember - CyberPower. The forum search will show you plenty of threads.

As long as you buy a Pure Sinewave model rather than a Stepped Sinewave you will be fine. For APC that means the SmartUPS (pure) not the BackUPS (stepped) range.

I use a SMT1000 on the Mac Pro in my signature and am quoted 45-50 minutes at idle (less at load of course). A SMT1500 would give you more headroom and the unit is the same physical size.

Click to expand...

I'm going to pick one of those CyberPower pure sine wave units up now. Provantage (excellent company I've never had any problems with, always competitive at a minimum) is running a sale on them. Warranty on connected equipment is good although I don't know about pricing for replacement batteries, for which APC is very convenient and cost-effective.

dont worry at all..

pastrychef said:

I had my 2008 Mac Pro for over 5 years and it ran pretty much 24/7 throughout that time. The machine ran well and continues to run well to this day. Prior to that, I had PowerMac MDD that also ran pretty much 24/7 for over 5 years. Both were on this same stepped wave APC UPS. Even if a stepped wave UPS can cause my machines to run hotter and/or shorten their lives, it's not enough to affect me. By the time, a stepped wave UPS'es potential/theoretical adverse properties take affect and they will be long retired by me.

Theoretically, I really shouldn't go out during tomorrow's thunderstorm while holding an umbrella since the umbrella can act as a lightning rod, but I will because USPS has a package that I really want so I will. The odds of it actually affecting me are low enough for me to ignore.

*Note: I didn't read the message thread or PDF and will not.

Click to expand...

+1

I am an electrical engineer and I tell you, you do not have anything to worry. Those differences in previous posts apply theoretically, -however they are in such an extreme low percentage range then to present any real case of concern.
Every power supply will die eventually, given enough time because of power electronics. But If you don't plan to keep your MacPro for longer then another 10 years, you will most likely be fine. After that, statistics and the law of six sigma kicks in real hard. To reduce risk of mission critical parts, I always advice a preventative maintenance plan. Rule of thumb, replace your PS every 6 - 8 years. Thats why servers have often redundant hot swapping dual PS in use.

calciumantacid said:

Is there actually a need to do a shutdown, why not just sleep? I'd imagine the machine could sleep for a long time off the UPS battery. Hybernate mode 3 writes to both RAM and disk so if the power is lost completely the machine will later wake from the disk as normal. I don't have a UPS yet to test this, so this is just my thinking.

Click to expand...

Yes there is a need to do a shutdown. Remember the UPS itself uses power, this will cap how long a UPS can provide power for no matter how little electricity you may be using in sleep mode.

Also, for an extended outage, I tend to turn off the UPS after the equipment is shutdown so the battery doesn't drain all the way and sit drained for who knows how long.

tony3d said:

I thought the MAc Pro power supply was 980 watts alone.

Click to expand...

My Mac Pro only uses like 300-400W on load.

What's the difference between the SMT and SMC lines from APC?

Say:

http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMT1500-1500VA-System/dp/B002MZW5JU


Vs.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMC1500-Smart-UPS-Interface-Uninterrupted/dp/B007ZT2KKM

calciumantacid said:

Is there actually a need to do a shutdown, why not just sleep?

Click to expand...

You buy a UPS for 1 reason only: prevent data loss due to loss of power. In order to prevent data loss you need to shutdown the machine or use suspend to disk (you don't need to power the machine in that case). However, in some cases this can be a bit problematic since not everything comes up correctly when resuming after being suspended (as we've seen with virtual machines). For those machines the only real option is to shut it down completely.

If you use the built-in UPS support in OS X you don't have much of a choice though since you can only choose between shutdown and shutdown. If you use something like apcupsd however you can create your own scripts and run those when something happens. This way you can shutdown the machine or use the deep sleep (suspend to disk) option. In case of vm's it's best to shutdown the hypervisor and let the hypervisor decide what to do with the vm's. In some cases it means a shutdown of the vm, in other cases a suspend.

Both shutting down and suspending requires time and that's why it is very essential to take this into account when setting up when to shutdown/suspend. You want the machine to have completed the shutdown/suspend action before your UPS runs out of power. In some cases there is even an option to shutdown the UPS as well. Biggest issue with this as well as with computer shutting down: what to do when the power is restored and the machines can be booted up/resumed?

ScottishCaptain said:

Which correlates with what nanofrog was saying, and I quote:

Click to expand...

No it does not as your quote is clearly stating that. Your quote is about another form: square wave inverter. It is not about stepped sine wave that is discussed here. The HP file has this to say about what to use:

For the best protection during unexpected utility outages, use a UPS that has a true sine wave inverter. A line-interactive UPS with a stepped sine inverter may be satisfactory if the dead zone is less than 2 ms.

Click to expand...

Note the second sentence!

Whether or not the Mac Pro is actually effected by a stepped sine wave is somewhat irrelevant, the equipment was designed to run off a pure sine wave and any UPS that outputs otherwise is simply a cheap unit.

Click to expand...

As you can clearly see from the HP document it doesn't matter if you use pure or stepped sine wave. They both are fine to use. Mind you, this document is about what UPS to use for HP SERVER (yes, SERVER!) products. You know, those machines that are one step higher on the "professional" ladder than workstations such as the Mac Pro.

There is a much simpler approach to the UPS products from APC: their SmartUPS line is their more professional line. They didn't aim for a cheap UPS for the consumer in that range and thus did not cut any prices by leaving out functionality or by limiting certain functions except for their SC models (they are a simplified version that uses square wave). It also means that it will have the best support there is, meaning that it is far more likely that it will simply work (work with OS X, Linux via NUT or apcupsd, etc.). If you want something proper from APC then this is the product line one should look at.

JesterJJZ said:

What's the difference between the SMT and SMC lines from APC?

Click to expand...

They put out new products and with that also changed the model numbering apparently. SMT means the standard model, SMX the extended run ones (previous they put XL at the end) and SMC is the simplified version. I've managed to found something in the APC faq: Frequently Asked Questions for the new SMX and SMT series of Smart-UPS products.. For the SMC see the following: Smart-UPS C Series FAQ. To answer your question: they look very similar. You can look for them on apc.com and compare them to see some of the differences.

pastrychef said:

When it comes to UPS, I only trust APC. I have an old Back-UPS 1500 with additional battary pack in use for many years. I have replaced the batteries in them once.

During hurricane Sandy, when the lights started to flicker, I had more than ample time to power down my equipment before suffering any damage.

Click to expand...

I have a few rack mount APCs and that 1500 plus a bigger one but I never use them lately. The power here goes out all the time (once a month on average - but sometimes once a day for a week or so) due to overdraw at the breaker-box. The Mac and other machines go dark but a UPS should be more than saving you from that. That almost never causes any damage at all. It never has for me - ever - in 30 years.

What a UPS needs to do is finish up a job the machines have been working on for X number of hours - determined by your deadline, tolerance, or whatever. For me that's about 5 hours. I mean if it's been working for 5 hours on something then I don't want to lose that work-time because of a breaker flipping off or whatever. And to finish up a 5 hour job it's probably going to need a few hours of battery time. Thus when I'm working on such projects I hook up my (very expensive) UPS systems but otherwise no need - at all.

I do agree that APC is the best tho.

pastrychef said:

During hurricane Sandy, when the lights started to flicker, I had more than ample time to power down my equipment before suffering any damage.

Click to expand...

ha. my sandy/mac story is like this..

i'm in tampa at the time.. my mac is below street level.. i see this picture on the news which is 1.5 blocks from my house



rent a car to drive home (airports were closed).. drive 16hrs straight and my house, along with everything in it, is perfectly dry
(and the electric worked too)

That would have scared the **** out of my butt^^

Anywho, I ordered this UPS a couple days ago on amazon, it hasn't gotten here yet. Can anyone tell me if this is ok for my system?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TZTGWK/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mac pro 2008, 2 x 3.2 ghz, 16gb ram, 4 hds (mix of ssd and hdd) gtx 680, and a dell ultrawide 29 (which pulls about 45 watts i think)