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Pricing and Thunderbolt peripherals will be critical to Mac Pro success

J

johngwheeler

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 30, 2010
639
211
I come from a land down-under...
From what I've read over the last couple of weeks it seems 2 factors stand out as being critical to the success of the new Mac Pro:

1) Pricing: I suspect Apple will try very hard to make an entry level MP attractive to as wide a user base as possible.

> $3000: it will be limited to a very small number of people, probably working in video production, who see dual-GPUs as value for money.

$2500-3000: Some wider interest from professionals in a number of fields, but limited sales

$2000-2500: this will appeal to a lot of people who just want a high-end desktop, and need a bit more power than an iMac / MacMini / MBP can provide. I fall into this category (software development).

If Apple can get it closer to $2000 than $2500, they will do well. I don't see it coming in under $2000 unless they make the entry level spec very close to the iMac (e.g. 4 core, 8MB, 128GB SSD).

2) Thunderbolt peripherals.

There is still a very limited selection of TB peripherals and enclosures and the prices are off-putting. The new MP needs to launch with some reasonably priced standard peripherals (single disks, small & medium arrays, PCI-e expansion chassis).

TB is still worrying a few people, I think, in terms of price, availability and future viability. I still can't find a reasonably priced external enclosure for a 2.5" SATA SSD.

The future will tell!
 
tamvly

tamvly

macrumors 6502a
Nov 11, 2007
571
18
I agree - pricing and TB options are critical. But I would fall over in a dead faint if pricing came in below $2499.
 
derbothaus

derbothaus

macrumors 601
Jul 17, 2010
4,093
30
There is nothing to the nMP besides TB, so yeah, reasonably priced high performing TB peripherals being important to success is an understatement.
It's like buying a car but you just buy the engine first. I know the whole car used to cost you $2500.00. This new engine costs $2500.00 but it is 'Expandable'. You can add stuff like a steering wheel (I know there is only 1 manufacturer right now of wheels but...) You might need some seats and belts. Oh yeah. Maybe need a gear box of some kind. We have 3 companies that will sell you wheels. Lucky you. More will jump on board. "Trust Us".;)
 
P

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
I agree that price is critical.

I also love the new Mac Pro because it will force people to adopt Thunderbolt, and hopefully drive costs down of TB devices.

I would throw out a random percentage that 90% of anything someone needs is already available, just with a slight price premium.

I think the new MP will be fine for anyone except maybe someone doing 4k 3D work. And even then, it might work fine for that with a high end configuration.

----------
tamvly said:
I agree - pricing and TB options are critical. But I would fall over in a dead faint if pricing came in below $2499.
Click to expand...

Well, it might be a low end 6 core config with 1 video card, 8GB RAM, and 128GB SSD.
 
wonderspark

wonderspark

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2010
3,048
102
Oregon
portishead said:
I also love the new Mac Pro because it will force people to adopt Thunderbolt, and hopefully drive costs down of TB devices.

I would throw out a random percentage that 90% of anything someone needs is already available, just with a slight price premium.
Click to expand...

Being forced into Thunderbolt is the part I *don't* like. If people were being forced to adopt mini-SAS instead of TB, it would benefit me, but upset a lot of others who don't have mini-SAS ports. Being forced into things seems to be the main problem.
 
P

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
B

barmann

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2010
941
626
Germany
Macsonic said:
Aside from pricing and distribution, timetable is also crucial.
Click to expand...

Good point .

Apple has until the release of the MP 6.1 to convince 3rd party manufactureres to cater to their new TB thing .
To be sold at Firewire prices .
Cables, too .

It didn't happen in the past 3 years, though .
 
wonderspark

wonderspark

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2010
3,048
102
Oregon
portishead said:
http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=31&prod=102&sku=TLSH-1068-D00
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Look at that price, just to use what I already have.

I've been luckier than some in the fact that my 2009 Mac Pro has been able to keep up with current tech by means of RAM, CPU, firmware, GPU and other PCIe card upgrades such as USB 3.0 and eSATA... and even an internal BD-R.

It's safe to say Apple doesn't like the idea of my purchase in 2009 being better than what they sell in 2013, so they made an effort to force us all to spend more money, more often. They're in the business of taking our money, with a side effect of making neat stuff. The only reason to applaud forcing everyone to spend more money is if you're one of the 1% of people profiting from it.
 
B

BR3W

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2010
318
46
Topper said:
That's insane. For $900, you get a device that just connects things. It doesn't even hold anything.
I guess I'm just too old but I really don't understand what you people are so happy about.
You must all have more money than god.
Click to expand...
it's $900 dollars to connect to tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. big studios, for example, not very many people using them for a home network
 
S

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
barmann said:
Good point .

Apple has until the release of the MP 6.1 to convince 3rd party manufactureres to cater to their new TB thing .
To be sold at Firewire prices .
Cables, too .

It didn't happen in the past 3 years, though .
Click to expand...

Often it seems it's peripherals that costs an equal amount even without TB, take the Pegasus RAID as an example. You can get a single 1TB drive with Thunderbolt for $199 from OWC.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Buffalo/HDPA1.0TU3/
 
C

Cubemmal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
824
1
I think just price, not peripherals.

While there aren't a huge amount of TB peripherals presently there are plenty. Lots of disk storage choices and now two legacy port choices (Belkin and Matrox), plus a bunch of specialty ones including PCI expansion. They aren't cheap but most of what you would expect is available.

I agree with OP that $2k is likely. The present MP sticks out like a sore thumb in the Apple lineup. Only appeals to a small minority and priced for that too. Just dropping the bottom price down to $2k ties it in perfectly with the rest of them. And looking at the likely BOM it seems to be a no brainer.

Those who look at retail FirePro prices and think that automatically means expensive Mac Pro have no idea of how their pricing power works. Additionally those who think Apple is greedy are right, but they seem to have no understanding of the concept of margins and volumes. With this tiny thing they can have greater margins than with the old MP and higher volumes all at a lower price point.
 
S

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
derbothaus said:
Not often. You have posted the absolute best case scenario ever seen.
Click to expand...

Sorry.

The idea was to show that Thunderbolt in itself does not have to come at a high price. Of course running a single drive over Thunderbolt is not taking advantage of the available throughput, the type of gear that does tend to cost more than $199, with or without Thunderbolt.
 
M

MacVidCards

Suspended
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
1,056
Hollywood, CA
subsonix said:
Sorry.

The idea was to show that Thunderbolt in itself does not have to come at a high price. Of course running a single drive over Thunderbolt is not taking advantage of the available throughput, the type of gear that does tend to cost more than $199, with or without Thunderbolt.
Click to expand...

Great Example.

a 2.5" 1TB drive running at 5400 rpm for $200

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2DC0TT5357&Tpk=1tb drive

Same drive. but $92

So slightly more than 100% markup for the "convenience" of TB. Awesome.

But you are right about something, by putting a slacker 5400 rpm drive in there, no chance that the interface will slow it down.
 
M

MacVidCards

Suspended
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
1,056
Hollywood, CA
subsonix said:
Yeah, let's compare it to a naked drive..

You forgot the enclosure and dual interface, so not the same. Something like this is closer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822205185
Click to expand...

I just fell out of my chair laughing.

You don't get it, really, do you?

That "naked drive" would plug right inside a current Mac Pro.

No 3rd party to force a markup.

You are doing a WONDERFUL job of proving the other side of your argument.

Quit while you're behind.
 
M

MacVidCards

Suspended
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
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And by trying to prove one thing, you proved the larger argument in a conclusive fashion. You have powers of reasoning you didn't even know about. Congrats !!!!
 
S

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
MacVidCards said:
And by trying to prove one thing, you proved the larger argument in a conclusive fashion. You have powers of reasoning you didn't even know about. Congrats !!!!
Click to expand...

You are participating in a thread about Thunderbolt adoption, the premise in the first post is that among other things the price needs to come down. I responded to a post that compared it to Firewire peripherals, that's the context here. A comparisson to internal anything is completely out of place.
 
P

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
wonderspark said:
Exactly my point. Look at that price, just to use what I already have.

I've been luckier than some in the fact that my 2009 Mac Pro has been able to keep up with current tech by means of RAM, CPU, firmware, GPU and other PCIe card upgrades such as USB 3.0 and eSATA... and even an internal BD-R.

It's safe to say Apple doesn't like the idea of my purchase in 2009 being better than what they sell in 2013, so they made an effort to force us all to spend more money, more often. They're in the business of taking our money, with a side effect of making neat stuff. The only reason to applaud forcing everyone to spend more money is if you're one of the 1% of people profiting from it.
Click to expand...

If what you have is fine, you don't have to upgrade to a new Mac Pro immediately. Sure, nobody wants to spend $900 on a glorified adapter, but it is there, and it may come down in price in the future.

Things cost money when you buy high end equipment, but to be fair, you're only 1% of the 5% of people using Mac Pro's that even need that.
 
M

MacVidCards

Suspended
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
1,056
Hollywood, CA
subsonix said:
You are participating in a thread about Thunderbolt adoption, the premise in the first post is that among other things the price needs to come down. I responded to a post that compared it to Firewire peripherals, that's the context here. A comparisson to internal anything is completely out of place.
Click to expand...

You're right again, there is no way that anything needlessly moved external that could be hooked up for free internally stands a chance of competing. "Completely out of place", which is where Apple has moved everything.

10 points, Ace.
 
M

macuser453787

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2012
578
151
Galatians 3:13-14
wonderspark said:
Being forced into Thunderbolt is the part I *don't* like. If people were being forced to adopt mini-SAS instead of TB, it would benefit me, but upset a lot of others who don't have mini-SAS ports. Being forced into things seems to be the main problem.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the forcing aspect doesn't sit well with me either -- especially since, in this case, TB is still expensive and a lot less established in comparison to mini-SAS and PCIe.
 
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