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GGJstudios

macrumors Westmere
May 16, 2008
44,545
943
Test: Mr. Retrofire is a real son of a bitch and an attention whore.
You should report yourself! :D
Arse and bastard are not on the profanity filter.
Why should they be filtered? The latter is simsaladimbamba's occupation! :D

I think most posters are responsible enough to use language intelligently and appropriately. The profanity filter exists because of those few who don't exercise such maturity.
 

LuxoJunior

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2013
57
0
But why do you feel the need to express yourself using words which you know to be offensive to some (even though you might dispute the socio-cultural context which made them offensive in the first place?) when it is quite clear that you are more than perfectly capable of expressing yourself in plain English?

Because I'm a person born of free will and I enjoy using language I choose accurately punctuates the way I feel about something, which is what curse words are intended to do. Basically, I don't give a damn.

Your post was adorable though.
 

Schmitty11

macrumors 6502
May 21, 2011
309
0
Because I'm a person born of free will and I enjoy using language I choose accurately punctuates the way I feel about something, which is what curse words are intended to do. Basically, I don't give a damn.

Your post was adorable though.

Well put sir.
 

Macman45

macrumors G5
Jul 29, 2011
13,197
135
Somewhere Back In The Long Ago
My 10 cents worth? There is no need to use profane language, but if you glance at the Oxford and similar tomes, words that used to be considered profanities are now an integral part of the English language. Used in proper context, I can't see any issue.

Used as a target or personal attack is an entirely different animal, and should ( and is) moderated.
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Original poster
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
People here have asked if certain words are filtered with the profanity filter. You can work this out for yourself. Type in the word in question. And hit preview post. And in the preview, filtered words will be filtered.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
http://ur1.ca/mygw0 finds disguised profanity.

When things are less busy, maybe the automated detection routines can be reviewed.

Side notes:
  • I do not assume that the move to XenForo can ease, or simplify, automated detection of disguised profanity
  • Profanity Rules (2008-06-08, with reference to Forum Rules).

Postscript

I ran, through Google, other words that were privately tested for profanity filtering on the day before migration to XenForo. Then spent a few minutes reporting matching posts, most of which were old.

To staff: thanks for the actions, and that string of reports of rule breaking is finished :)
 
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Doctor Q

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
39,788
7,523
Los Angeles
I'm clueless. Mat s h i t a. The DVD drive company.
In case it's not clear, robbieduncan was quoting an old post that no longer applies. Names like Matsushita are not filtered.

The profanity filter is a simple forum feature that will never be fool-proof or a substitute for the responsibility of users to avoid the very few disallowed words, as required by the Forum Rules.
 
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RichardMZhlubb

macrumors regular
Nov 26, 2010
214
18,310
Washington, DC
How frequently, if ever, are the terms blocked by the profanity filter reviewed to determine whether there is still a justification for including them? Based on my quick search of this forum, it appears that there haven’t been a lot of changes over the last decade.

I think that the profanity filter, as currently applied, is too broad and there are several words that should be permitted that are blocked. It’s tough to do this without triggering the filter, but the two I think should be permitted are (1) the term that’s abbreviated BS, and (2) the fully written out version of *****. Both are now generally used on basic cable television and I don’t think that anyone posting on this forum is likely to be offended by either. The first term in particular has a very specific meaning that isn’t really captured by any other term, and there are insulting terms that I find far more offensive than the second term that are not blocked (see the OP, for example).

EDIT: I see that my effort to abbreviate the second term failed. It is the seven letter word that starts with “ass” and ends with “hole.” The fact that you can use the constituent parts of the term, but can’t combine them just seems silly.
 

GGJstudios

macrumors Westmere
May 16, 2008
44,545
943
Cable television is a terrible benchmark for determining if certain words are offensive, since cable continues to push the boundaries of what is good taste or publicly acceptable. I know plenty of people who would be offended by the terms you mentioned, and I'm glad they're blocked.

"To swear is neither brave, polite, nor wise." -Alexander Pope
"Profanity is the last refuge of the truly ignorant." - Anonymous
"The use of profanity is the sign of a person with a poor vocabulary." - Anonymous
 

RichardMZhlubb

macrumors regular
Nov 26, 2010
214
18,310
Washington, DC
Cable television is a terrible benchmark for determining if certain words are offensive, since cable continues to push the boundaries of what is good taste or publicly acceptable. I know plenty of people who would be offended by the terms you mentioned, and I'm glad they're blocked.

"To swear is neither brave, polite, nor wise." -Alexander Pope
"Profanity is the last refuge of the truly ignorant." - Anonymous
"The use of profanity is the sign of a person with a poor vocabulary." - Anonymous

I disagree with the quotes to some degree. You can have the broadest possible vocabulary, but you will not find a synonym for the written out version of BS that has the same specific meaning and connotation.
 
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annk

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 18, 2004
15,140
9,351
Somewhere over the rainbow
How frequently, if ever, are the terms blocked by the profanity filter reviewed to determine whether there is still a justification for including them? Based on my quick search of this forum, it appears that there haven’t been a lot of changes over the last decade.

I think that the profanity filter, as currently applied, is too broad and there are several words that should be permitted that are blocked. It’s tough to do this without triggering the filter, but the two I think should be permitted are (1) the term that’s abbreviated BS, and (2) the fully written out version of *****. Both are now generally used on basic cable television and I don’t think that anyone posting on this forum is likely to be offended by either. The first term in particular has a very specific meaning that isn’t really captured by any other term, and there are insulting terms that I find far more offensive than the second term that are not blocked (see the OP, for example).

EDIT: I see that my effort to abbreviate the second term failed. It is the seven letter word that starts with “ass” and ends with “hole.” The fact that you can use the constituent parts of the term, but can’t combine them just seems silly.

The last issue you bring up - the fact that 'ass' and 'hole' can both be used, while the combination is disallowed - has an explanation. The individual words in this case have uses that aren't profane.

You also ask whether or not terms on the filter are ever reviewed. We can't unfortunately prioritize any regular review - the moderators and administrators are volunteers, and there are too many other tasks that need more immediate attention (such as spam and violations like insults, trolling, etc.). But we do discuss terms and the filter anytime an issue comes up, like in this thread, in contact messages, or in reported posts where a situation we haven't seen before might come up.

So the short version is that we do indeed discuss the filter, though not on a regularly scheduled basis.

One last thing: we've chosen a set of rules on this site that's fairly strict. The profanity filter is part of that. Not everyone will like this, and that's understandable, but speaking only for myself, I don't think that's a bad thing. I use profanity in my everyday life, despite the fact that I agree with the quotes @GGJstudios listed above, but I don't miss it here. I don't think we need to use cable TV as a yardstick; better to set the bar a bit higher.

As for the other word you bring up, the non-abbreviated version of BS, I won't try to answer for the entire team right now, since questions of that type are something we discuss.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,984
46,448
In a coffee shop.
Cable television is a terrible benchmark for determining if certain words are offensive, since cable continues to push the boundaries of what is good taste or publicly acceptable. I know plenty of people who would be offended by the terms you mentioned, and I'm glad they're blocked.

"To swear is neither brave, polite, nor wise." -Alexander Pope
"Profanity is the last refuge of the truly ignorant." - Anonymous
"The use of profanity is the sign of a person with a poor vocabulary." - Anonymous

I agree with you to a pretty large extent; surely it must be possible to express yourself in writing (even though most of us will swear in speech in informal settings) without recourse to the use of such vocabulary, even if it is widely heard and seen on TV.

Quite apart from the fact that the English language is more than subtle and rich enough to be able to supply words to express disgust or dislike or to be able to stress how idiotic something with contempt, I think that permitting the use of such terminology or expressions will serve to coarsen further the tone of discussion and debate online, and I, for one, would regret that.
 
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annk

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 18, 2004
15,140
9,351
Somewhere over the rainbow
... I think that permitting the use of such terminology or expressions will serve to coarsen further the tone of discussion and debate online, and I, for one, would regret that.

I think you make a good point. While I use profanity with family and close friends in my daily life, I do think that both spoken and written discussion in a broader context, especially a professional context, a public context, or a context in which I don't know all the participants personally, is generally better off without profanity.

In general, I agree with Atticus in To Kill A Mockingbird, who told Scout that profanity should only be used in cases of extreme provocation. But on MacRumors, extreme provocation should result in a post report, not profanity. ;)
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Well this site allows swearing, I’ve reported posts with swearing in and the moderators declared no action was needed, so the rules do seem to be made up as you go along.

Cock wanker **** for instance are freely allowed..

The second word above is only known as an insulting swear word in the English Oxford Dictionary yet its freely allowed on this site?
It does seem to come across as though unless your filter blocks it then it’s not swearing..
Well you need to remember MacRumors you are an international website, some find swear words are different to and including the ones used in American culture.
Seems to me the whole system needs an overhaul and moderators retrained perhaps.
 
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annk

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 18, 2004
15,140
9,351
Somewhere over the rainbow
Well this site allows swearing, I’ve reported posts with swearing in and the moderators declared no action was needed, so the rules do seem to be made up as you go along.

Cock wanker **** for instance are freely allowed..

The second word above is only known as an insulting swear word in the English Oxford Dictionary yet its freely allowed on this site?
It does seem to come across as though unless your filter blocks it then it’s not swearing..
Well you need to remember MacRumors you are an international website, some find swear words are different to and including the ones used in American culture.
Seems to me the whole system needs an overhaul and moderators retrained perhaps.

There are a few claims in your post that need to be addressed. No, the rules are not made up as we go along. There is a thorougly-discussed set of rules in place, and those rules evolve (albeit slowly, so as not to be constantly moving the goal posts) based on user feedback and our experience over time. A lot of staff time goes to discussing the rules.

No, the words you list are not "freely allowed." If our attention is brought to a post with excessive vulgarity or with profanity, we will view and discuss it based on context and in light of the rules, and moderate if we feel it's necessary. To state otherwise is simply untrue.

I can also point out that we are an American website, though that's not necessarily an issue in this particular discussion.

Profanity can span anything from irreverence for or the misuse of anything that is held to be sacred, to vulgarity. For many words, you have to look at context and whether or not the words are in common use in ways that are not considered profane today. Since different communities will naturally view profanity differently, it will always be a judgement call to a certain extent.

Looking at another aspect of profanity, namely vulgarity: some people will tolerate no vulgarity whatsoever, some seem to have no limits at all to what they will tolerate. What one person views as vulgar may be accepted in some or even many contexts. The rules are in place to attempt to keep discourse civil without putting unnecessary restraints on personal expression. Not an easy balance. Certainly, not everyone will agree with the balance that exists, but complete agreement is not possible on a site with over one million registered users.

As for cock, it has a non-profane definition and therefore doesn't belong on the filter. As for wanker, we've had at least one extensive discussion about it among the staff, and will likely have more. As for ****, I'm hard pressed to think of a use that would be allowed. But remember: just because a word might not be on the filter doesn't mean it wouldn't be moderated, depending on context. The absence of a particular word on the filter is not proof that "swearing is allowed on MacRumors." If you see something you think is over the line, report it. If you report something and nothing is done, and you want to discuss it or argue your case for why something should have been done, send us your views in a Contact Us message, and we'll review our decision.

We have chosen to put certain words on the filter because they either 1) have only profane meanings, and/or 2) have caused a disproportionate amount of work for us because of inappropriate use. That doesn't mean we've managed to put all such words on the filter, it's only an explanation of why the words on the filter are there.

It's not a perfect system, but given the level of care put into it thus far and the level of discussion that occurs along the way, I disagree that the "whole system needs an overhaul" or that moderators need to be "retrained."
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
There are a few claims in your post that need to be addressed. No, the rules are not made up as we go along. There is a thorougly-discussed set of rules in place, and those rules evolve (albeit slowly, so as not to be constantly moving the goal posts) based on user feedback and our experience over time. A lot of staff time goes to discussing the rules.

No, the words you list are not "freely allowed." If our attention is brought to a post with excessive vulgarity or with profanity, we will view and discuss it based on context and in light of the rules, and moderate if we feel it's necessary. To state otherwise is simply untrue.

I can also point out that we are an American website, though that's not necessarily an issue in this particular discussion.

Profanity can span anything from irreverence for or the misuse of anything that is held to be sacred, to vulgarity. For many words, you have to look at context and whether or not the words are in common use in ways that are not considered profane today. Since different communities will naturally view profanity differently, it will always be a judgement call to a certain extent.

Looking at another aspect of profanity, namely vulgarity: some people will tolerate no vulgarity whatsoever, some seem to have no limits at all to what they will tolerate. What one person views as vulgar may be accepted in some or even many contexts. The rules are in place to attempt to keep discourse civil without putting unnecessary restraints on personal expression. Not an easy balance. Certainly, not everyone will agree with the balance that exists, but complete agreement is not possible on a site with over one million registered users.

As for cock, it has a non-profane definition and therefore doesn't belong on the filter. As for wanker, we've had at least one extensive discussion about it among the staff, and will likely have more. As for ****, I'm hard pressed to think of a use that would be allowed. But remember: just because a word might not be on the filter doesn't mean it wouldn't be moderated, depending on context. The absence of a particular word on the filter is not proof that "swearing is allowed on MacRumors." If you see something you think is over the line, report it. If you report something and nothing is done, and you want to discuss it or argue your case for why something should have been done, send us your views in a Contact Us message, and we'll review our decision.

We have chosen to put certain words on the filter because they either 1) have only profane meanings, and/or 2) have caused a disproportionate amount of work for us because of inappropriate use. That doesn't mean we've managed to put all such words on the filter, it's only an explanation of why the words on the filter are there.

It's not a perfect system, but given the level of care put into it thus far and the level of discussion that occurs along the way, I disagree that the "whole system needs an overhaul" or that moderators need to be "retrained."

If the words I posted are not acceptable, then why exactly have you not added them to your filter? It cannot be very hard to add words into a filter yet you fail to do so. Instead you discuss if they should be allowed. Comes across as a lot of talk but no action, the English Oxford Dictionary states wanker only has a meaning of insult or slander for masturbation, yet it’s not been added to your filter.

I think your comment on it being an ‘American’ website explains a problem, in that it leads your moderators and perhaps yourself to interpret the rules as they see it in an American way, you perhaps fail as a website to realise you are an international website and different cultures view things differently which are considerations your staff should be taking into account as well as other members.

Also I’m sorry but I’m afraid I have reported posts for swearing before and your moderating team did take no action. You can defend them but facts are facts I’m afraid. Simply telling your members to use the ‘contact us’ system is not really a viable solution, because you defend your staff 100%. As I said you should re-train your moderators.

Swearing is swearing their is no ifs and buts, you either do or you don’t allow it, it seems a very grey area with this sites rules and moderation I have to say.
 
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YaBe

Cancelled
Oct 5, 2017
867
1,533
Bitch, whore etc etc
(not filtered by the profanity filter).
And there are other words not picked up. This needs to be updated to filter more of the obvious profanity.
This is the issue with todays society, instead of educating people we filter them, the problem will never be solved.

On the other hand, I would like to mute / ignore few people in real life... if only it was that easy!
 

annk

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 18, 2004
15,140
9,351
Somewhere over the rainbow
Swearing is swearing their is no ifs and buts, you either do or you don’t allow it, it seems a very grey area with this sites rules and moderation I have to say.

You proved one of the points I made in my post: some tolerate no profanity or vulgarity whatsoever, some tolerate quite a bit. Those who insist that it must be either or will likely be dissatisfied. We however need to find a balance that can encompass a broad middle ground in this issue.

My comment about it being an American site was only intended to correct the inaccuracy in your own post. As I also said, the fact that it's an American site is not particularly relevant in this discussion. We have moderators, administrators, and users from all over the world, but it's a fact that the site defined as American by virture of the fact that it was established here. Where it was established is a legal aspect.

We don't see the rules in an 'American' way, as you put it. The rules have to do with common courtesy, which I'm guessing is important in many parts of the world.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
You proved one of the points I made in my post: some tolerate no profanity or vulgarity whatsoever, some tolerate quite a bit. Those who insist that it must be either or will likely be dissatisfied. We however need to find a balance that can encompass a broad middle ground in this issue.

My comment about it being an American site was only intended to correct the inaccuracy in your own post. As I also said, the fact that it's an American site is not particularly relevant in this discussion. We have moderators, administrators, and users from all over the world, but it's a fact that the site defined as American by virture of the fact that it was established here. Where it was established is a legal aspect.

We don't see the rules in an 'American' way, as you put it. The rules have to do with common courtesy, which I'm guessing is important in many parts of the world.

Yet again your comment is false, you claim to have all these admins based around the world, yet I have only been sanctioned by ONE in particular who lives in America according to their profile, and it doesn’t matter what time of day it is it’s the same moderator.
I think you’ve either misunderstood my comment about this being an American site or tried to twist my words? My point still stands on that.
The picture you paint in your comment is not the picture experienced in reality.

But I digress, if you want to host a site where swearing is allowed, it just depends on its context, fine, I don’t believe that’s in the sites written rules though? Or is it? You just make it an incredibly confusing grey area where no one knows if they swear and a post is reported how it’ll be treated. Because you’ve got muddy waters around it.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
34,136
15,598
California
You just make it an incredibly confusing grey area where no one knows if they swear and a post is reported how it’ll be treated.
I think it is actually fairly clear what is allowed and you are making it a bit complicated by comparing two different things, that is profanity and insults.

Profanity is fine as long as it is not directed at another forum member as an insult. If the word is on the filter list, it will get censored either way. We don't moderate insults of non-forum members, so some insulting words are fine in that context.

So "Senator Jones is an *******" is okay, but "Forum member @JimmyTwoHats is an *******" is not.

Make sense?
 
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