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Sleep or shut down

Nugget

Nugget

Contributor
Nov 24, 2002
2,122
1,357
Tejas Hill Country
AXs said:
I'm hearing the "shutting down is insanity/stupid" assertion by the last couple of you guys.

But I'm not seeing any facts or arguments to back up your statement.

Not saying I agree and/or disagree - Just saying that saying someone else is 'silly' or 'wrong'... doesn't automatically make you right....right?
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with shutting down the laptop every time you stop using the machine. Just like there would be nothing inherently wrong with shutting it down, wrapping it carefully in the original cellophane wrap, and re-boxing it in the original packaging every night before you go to bed.

It's just senseless overhead with no benefit. There's no upside which makes it a curious habit.

I would turn your question around. Those who are shutting down the machine (in some cases as extreme as "Even if I run to 7-11 for 10 minutes") -- why? Why are you doing that? What do you think you're accomplishing? Sure, it boots in 10 seconds. But it wakes from sleep in 2.
 
Macman45

Macman45

macrumors G5
Jul 29, 2011
13,197
135
Somewhere Back In The Long Ago
I run my Imac 24 /7 only rebooting for Su's etc. My rMBP does get shut down when I'm done using it though...We also have a large media server ( Windows based) which will shortly be sold and replaced with a Mac Pro ( older version) that also runs 24 /7.
 
V

vseera

macrumors 6502
May 27, 2011
316
546
I almost never shut down any of my machines, always allow them to sleep.

However, Apple has the sleep routine down pat while the one on Win7 at least is clunky at best. I never know when its going to flake out on me.

Every few weeks though, I will let it run through a boot cycle to clear out the VM images on disk.
 
AXs

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
Nugget said:
There's nothing wrong with shutting down the laptop every time you stop using the machine. Just like there would be nothing inherently wrong with shutting it down, wrapping it carefully in the original cellophane wrap, and re-boxing it in the original packaging every night before you go to bed.

It's just senseless overhead with no benefit. There's no upside which makes it a curious habit.

I would turn your question around. Those who are shutting down the machine (in some cases as extreme as "Even if I run to 7-11 for 10 minutes") -- why? Why are you doing that? What do you think you're accomplishing? Sure, it boots in 10 seconds. But it wakes from sleep in 2.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, this is just ludacris in terms of argumentative validity.

You're going on a slippery slope here. Shutting down a computer/laptop has been a norm in the industry for ages - it doesn't mean someone should re-wrap and box their device. That's... nah just waste of my time really.

Your system continues to draw power in sleep mode, whether you personally find significance in the amount of power it draws.

Shutting down means it draws NO power whatsoever.


Again, I think sleep has it's uses, and shutdown has it's uses. But the arguments here are not withstanding.
 
D

DisplacedMic

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2009
1,411
1
AXs said:
I'm sorry, this is just ludacris in terms of argumentative validity.

You're going on a slippery slope here. Shutting down a computer/laptop has been a norm in the industry for ages - it doesn't mean someone should re-wrap and box their device. That's... nah just waste of my time really.

Your system continues to draw power in sleep mode, whether you personally find significance in the amount of power it draws.

Shutting down means it draws NO power whatsoever.


Again, I think sleep has it's uses, and shutdown has it's uses. But the arguments here are not withstanding.
Click to expand...

did you click the link i provided earlier? shutting down does actually draw power. around .24W as opposed to .84W in sleep.
compared to the computer at "idle" with the display on pulling over 8 watts.

obviously his argument is hyperbole - and i agree with his point.

i also agree with your post on the previous page that some people have no idea what they are talking about. there is no harm whatsoever from powering your computer on and off - if it burns something out, something was wrong. same goes for leaving it on sleep near constantly- if that burns something out, something was wrong.

ultimately it's a time to benefit issue... as there is very little benefit most people don't feel like it's worth the time - even if that time is fairly short as your yourself have pointed out.
 
AXs

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
DisplacedMic said:
did you click the link i provided earlier? shutting down does actually draw power. around .24W as opposed to .84W in sleep.
compared to the computer at "idle" with the display on pulling over 8 watts.

obviously his argument is hyperbole - and i agree with his point.

i also agree with your post on the previous page that some people have no idea what they are talking about. there is no harm whatsoever from powering your computer on and off - if it burns something out, something was wrong. same goes for leaving it on sleep near constantly- if that burns something out, something was wrong.

ultimately it's a time to benefit issue... as there is very little benefit most people don't feel like it's worth the time - even if that time is fairly short as your yourself have pointed out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for providing the link. I missed it the first time around. Looks like a really good read, gonna get through it once I get back at night. Cheers

edit: here's the link for the report on13" Haswell Air
http://images.apple.com/environment...air_product_environmental_report_june2013.pdf
 
ctyrider

ctyrider

macrumors 65816
Jul 15, 2012
1,025
591
AXs said:
I'm sorry, this is just ludacris in terms of argumentative validity.

You're going on a slippery slope here. Shutting down a computer/laptop has been a norm in the industry for ages
Click to expand...

Which is an even poorer of an argument. Something "being industry norm for ages" doesn't mean anything. It used to be an "industry norm" to defragment your hard drive every couple of months. Technology evolves and things change.

To be clear, no one ever suggested that shutting down your computer does any harm. The point is that it has no tangible benefit with the modern hardware and modern OS. But ultimately, you can do whatever makes you happy.
 
Nugget

Nugget

Contributor
Nov 24, 2002
2,122
1,357
Tejas Hill Country
AXs said:
Even if I run to 7-11 for 10 minutes, I shut down.
Click to expand...

That's just about as absurd as re-boxing, and quite a distance from "nightly". I'm sure you've already shut down your laptop, though, and won't see this reply until you power back up in a few minutes. :)
 
jadAce

jadAce

macrumors regular
Aug 10, 2013
204
149
I plan on shutting down the MacBook Air whenever I need a "fresh start". Is this a good rule of thumb? Does shutting it down and restarting processes help if it gets a bit sluggish? This used to work on my old PC.
 
Taskman

Taskman

macrumors member
Apr 20, 2009
33
14
Hooden
I keep mine in sleep mode most of the time and only shut it down when I know that o won't be using it for a long time(at least a week).
Sleep works really well and have not had a problem with any sluggishness which requires me to restart from time to time, every other week or so, like I do on my desktop running Win 7.
 
AXs

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
Nugget said:
That's just about as absurd as re-boxing, and quite a distance from "nightly". I'm sure you've already shut down your laptop, though, and won't see this reply until you power back up in a few minutes. :)
Click to expand...

Im' not sure which mac you have that takes 5 minutes to shutdown and reboot - that you would compare it to a 5 minute action.

But my Haswell Air takes just a couple seconds to shut down, and 10 seconds to boot. I recommend you get it if it is in budget. Worth every bang of the buck.


Anyways, I guess if you have only one computer- The Air, you want to leave it on forever? My mac-pro equivalent custom pc is always on, so I can see what you mean in that sense. My desktops have always been on 24/7. I just don't think laptops are designed to run on and on.

But it's 2013, having just an ultra book must be troublesome. I mean forget raw processing power, you've got to at least have a graphics card in 2013 right? Sound card optional.

But hey, whatever makes you happy.
 
D

DisplacedMic

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2009
1,411
1
AXs said:
Im' not sure which mac you have that takes 5 minutes to shutdown and reboot - that you would compare it to a 5 minute action.

But my Haswell Air takes just a couple seconds to shut down, and 10 seconds to boot. I recommend you get it if it is in budget. Worth every bang of the buck.


Anyways, I guess if you have only one computer- The Air, you want to leave it on forever? My mac-pro equivalent custom pc is always on, so I can see what you mean in that sense. My desktops have always been on 24/7. I just don't think laptops are designed to run on and on.

But it's 2013, having just an ultra book must be troublesome. I mean forget raw processing power, you've got to at least have a graphics card in 2013 right? Sound card optional.

But hey, whatever makes you happy.
Click to expand...

you're definitely not a big fan of exaggeration of the sake of emphasis are you?
:p

first, he didn't say 5 minutes he said a few
second, i think he was giving you a little gentle teasing.
finally - regarding your comment that you "just don't think laptops are designed to run on and on," i would argue that yes they absolutely are. or at least the macbooks are. hasn't that been the big point of discovery for us in this very thread?

as it were i'm replying not pile more on you but rather to comment that my 2013 mba actually takes an relative eternity to shut down.... compared to the 11 second boot up time anyway
 
maflynn

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,469
43,389
[MOD NOTE]
Closed for moderator review

I removed a few off topic posts. Lets avoid the bickering. The thread is now open.
 
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I

ItHurtsWhenIP

macrumors 6502
Aug 20, 2013
409
28
'Merica!
I tried this last night just to see how it worked..

I charged it up to 100% before going to bed, unplugged it and let it sleep. (I do keep power nap off and have the "put hard disks to sleep when possible" box checked)

I opened the lid 8 hours later and it was still at 100% battery. Case closed? I doubt it..but I know I won't be shutting down at night any time soon. :)
 
ZBoater

ZBoater

macrumors G3
Jul 2, 2007
8,497
1,322
Sunny Florida
beautifulcoder said:
No, shutting down has no benefit on OS X.
Click to expand...

You know, I've read that before but i don't think that's true. Very often I have had my MBA act sluggish or strange, usually after using the AppStore, and a reboot clears that right up. Not sure if it has any relation to the infamous memory leaks of PCs and Windows, but OS X is not immune to strange behavior that a good ol reboot won't fix.
 
D

DisplacedMic

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2009
1,411
1
ZBoater said:
You know, I've read that before but i don't think that's true. Very often I have had my MBA act sluggish or strange, usually after using the AppStore, and a reboot clears that right up. Not sure if it has any relation to the infamous memory leaks of PCs and Windows, but OS X is not immune to strange behavior that a good ol reboot won't fix.
Click to expand...

kernel panic for one.
 
N

No-Me

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2011
574
31
Rotterdam
I always let my MBA sleep during the night. I haven't tested it with the MBA, but when I owned a MBP with a HDD I tested the power usage. During startup it asked a lot more power than when I would have let it sleep for days. I tested this without the battery in the laptop and when it was hooked on to the charger.

My conclusion at the time was that starting up would require the computer to use more resources. Before the firmware loads you sometimes hear the fans spinning a little faster. Sure it probably doesn't do a lot of damage if you do this once a day. But somehow it feels that if you do this a couple of times a day that it could potentially shorten the life of the MBA. At the time I also asked Apple and they also advised to just let it sleep because that would be better in the long run.

Never thought about it again until this topic, it could be different with SSD powered computers, but maybe it's just time for a renewed test. :)
 
B

beautifulcoder

macrumors regular
Apr 13, 2013
218
2
The Republic of Texas
No-Me said:
I haven't tested it with the MBA, but when I owned a MBP with a HDD I tested the power usage. During startup it asked a lot more power than when I would have let it sleep for days.
Click to expand...

Things are certainly improved with SSD but electronics in general always eat up more power when you enter the transient boot up state. Electronic currents spike up, fans whirl and take a toll on the hardware, no matter how small. Electronics are designed for the steady state without human interference. I think the point of having a machine is to have it run consistently. My current impression is that constantly booting up will have an impact on the life of the hardware.

But we all have our quirks and that is perfectly okay too.
 
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AXs

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
Time to do some reading guys

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/myths.html

Here's a quote from the computer's sub-category on his site:

You won't wear your computer out any faster by cycling it once a day, or even a few times a day. Modern computers just aren't that fragile. I did hardware troubleshooting at Apple, by the way. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Jonathan Koomey, a project scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who says, "PCs are not hurt by turning them on and off a few times a day." (Wall St. Journal) The useful life of a computer these days is only a few years anyway. The computer will become obsolete long before you wear it out, no matter how often you cycle it. Bottom line: Turn your computer off when you're done with it (or simply Sleep it), and don't worry about it. (more on this topic...)

It also doesn't take more energy to start a computer than to keep it running. The only extra energy it takes to start a computer is the two minutes or so it takes to start up, which is barely different than any other two minutes' of use. You'll always save energy by turning your computer off when you're not using it. Of course you don't have to turn it off since you can easily use the sleep or standby mode instead.

The myth of "turning it off uses more energy than keeping it on all the time" exists for just about every device that exists, and it's wrong in every single case, in practical terms. (Meaning, you will never, ever, ever see any savings on your electrical bill by keeping something on all the time vs. turning it off. Period.) You will always save electricity by turning your device off when you're not using it (or sleeping it, if it's a computer).
Click to expand...
 
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AXs

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
you shouldn't take quotes out of context. Just a personal advice. It doesn't weigh as much, and most often is obvious for manipulated part of speech.

But yes, after reading his site and others the last day or 2 - it seems putting a laptop to sleep is as good as shutting down. I know that now, plus with reference to Apple's green report.

We learn something new everyday with productive research.


The quote however, was meant to debunk the idea that shutting down and booting draws more power - as many have stated in this tread.

Good day.
 
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