Help with composition/cropping in post

I've recently been putting much more effort into what I do with my photos in post. I had been ignoring this step and concentrating on trying to improve my skills at the time of capture, thinking that garbage in equals garbage out.

I'm now trying to spend more time trying to get the most out of the photos I've taken in preparation for printing/framing some. For the first time really trying to learn the software to use it to its potential.

I have two photos that I would like help with regarding the best crop for them. For both, I'll include the original image and then two different crops. I'll include my own thoughts for both, but I'm not sure I trust myself and would welcome opinions. Both were taken on a trip to NYC last summer using a 35mm lens and rangefinder camera. Both were adjusted using Silver Efex Pro 2 and then cropped in LR5.

The first is of a candid street shot at night in the village that caught my eye.


Original version.


Removed some of the distractions on both the right and left side of the frame. I selectively darkened the window so it wasn't so blown out. I was initially happy with this version.


Looking at it again, I felt that there were still too many distractions on both side. The subject is the store with the man outside looking in. I started thinking that elements on both sides were pulling the eyes away from the subject. Was I right on this?

The second photo was taken on a boat tour around Manhattan. This is looking northeastish. The sun was reflecting off the new Freedom Tower. Liked having the sailboat in the frame.


Somewhat underexposed because of the reflected light off the tower.


This is an early version of the photo which I think I may have posted in the POTD thread. Sky somewhat more dramatic than the original. The sailboat slightly more prominent than in the original but not the subject. I made this crop thinking that the light from the Freedom Tower was so bright that it should dominate the frame and be centered.


Did some fairly extensive adjustments in Silver Efex Pro 2. Made the sky more dramatic. Also selectively brightened the sailboat. Looking at the image after the above adjustments I started thinking that the sailboat is fairly prominent but is too far over on the right of the cropped frame.


So I tried this crop that moved the sailboat closer to the center. Not sure if there is now tension in the image from two competing subjects that are roughly balanced in the frame.

Would welcome any thoughts/opinions/advice for either of these. Trying to improve and could use some feedback

eXan said:

I'm no expert my any means, but I do try to experient in photo as well, so my thoughts:

For the street shot I prefer the second version. For me it gives the "street feel", as more of it is visible, yet the subject is not as distant, as in the original. The third feels cramped and way too close-up.

The boat is more tricky. Definitely don't overadjust, looks like *****, tbh. The second version's contrast is better. As for cropping, I would do the slightly more zoomed-out last version, but with more water in it, like the orig.

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I think I went a little overboard with the brightening on the boat. Blew out some of the detail. Also think I went a little overboard with the sky.

Here is a more conservative version of the latter photo:

Attonine said:

For the pink cat, I don't know there is much you can really do. You were basically in no man's land when you took the photo - you're in the wrong place. Add to this, it's just not really that interesting a photo anyway. Perhaps moving much closer, meaning close enough to crop almost everything except the man and the window out of the frame, get some of the man's face in the photo. Alternatively moving away, getting a wider view, more context may have made the photo better. The lighting in the street is pretty bad. Sometimes there just isn't a good photo to be had.

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Painful to read this, but I can't really argue. Most of the photos I take are of static subjects where I have the luxury of moving around to find the best vantage point. Don't always make the best decision, but I always think about it.

For both of these images I didn't have that luxury. For the pink cat I was wandering around with my wife and niece. Saw the store front and saw the man in front of it looking in. I was across the street. Pulled out my camera and shot. The moment was what it was.

I *want* this to be a stellar image. I try to convince myself that there are all these reasons it can seem interesting. But as I stated in the OP, garbage in equals garbage out.

Sigh.

Having said that, my wife likes this photo and I'll be printing it. Just have to settle on a crop she likes

Attonine said:

An interesting exercise is to watch other photographers at work. On youtube there are clips of Garry Winogrand, Joel Mayerowitz, William Klein, Saul Leiter, Brice Gilden etc at work. These are all masters of street photography, and all worked a lot in NY. Watch them work, as well as look at their work. This will give you a good idea of what and how they get/got the shots they do. I'm not too sure of focal lengths, I believe Winogrand was very much a 28mm guy, Gilden is 28mm, even 21mm sometimes. The others I'm not sure about. But it goes to show, just take those extra 2 or 3 steps towards the subject, don't be frightened, fill the frame!

Finally, what's with this "I pulled out my camera" nonsense?! The camera should be in your hand ready to fire at all times!

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I chuckled when I read your last line. While NYC is safer now than it was in the past, can't say I'm comfortable walking around holding a Leica next to my eye all the time. Given recent articles I've read though, flashing Apple gear is what will get you in trouble....

Useful advice in your post. Thanks.

swordio777 said:

Personally, I'd be looking to crop it in a similar way to your 3rd crop - I agree that this version manages to exclude some distracting elements. However the shot is WAY too dark overall.

I don't do street photography myself, but I think the key to it is drawing your viewer's eye to the subject in context. This means showing the whole setting, which the image doesn't currently do.

You mentioned in your original post that the subject of this shot is the both the man & the window. I'd much prefer to see the man a LOT brighter in the shot - this will help include him as part of the subject because the viewer's eye will be drawn to him. At the moment, the eye is drawn solely to the window and you have to consciously look around the frame for other details. Rather than darkening the entire frame, you could use a vignette to help lead the viewer's eye. Elliptical vignettes usually look really fake, so paint it in manually trying to accentuate the shot's natural shadows.

I've drifted away from the subject of cropping here, but I really think there's more to realising this images full potential than just cropping in tighter. Really don't want to offend, just trying to offer some constructive feedback about post-processing in general.

Hope it helps.

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Your comments are all appreciated. You didn't wander off point--all helpful stuff.

Here is a version with the man brightened a bit. Also darkened the store opening around his head.

Oracle1729 said:

I would reconsider your method of black and white conversion. Both of these are very dark yet with blown highlights, this creates an illusion of even more lost detail. I generally like higher contrast black and white, but these somehow look muddy and over contrasty at the same time.

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There was no black and white conversion. Both shot with a leica MM.

Thanks for the all the very helpful replies. Lot's of food for thought.

Photography is a hobby for me. A serious hobby that I really care about, but not a source of income. Work doesn't let me devote as much time to it as I would like. I'm learning as I go along. I'm better than I was, say, five years ago but still have much to learn.

There is more detail present in the blacks, specifically in the bikes and in front of Music Inn.

Started from scratch with the RAW image. I think this is the best edit thus far:


Added more control points in Silver Efex Pro 2 to selectively change the tones in different parts of the image. Didn't whiten his head/face quite so much as in the previous version. Lightened his shoulders slightly to bring out the musculature. Darkened the face of the manikin in the right corner of the window slightly so it wasn't so blown out and making it easier to see what is going on in that portion of the window display. Brought up the shadows a bit on the left half of the image. Cropped out the doors/lights on the right side of the image. Also globally lowered the highlights a bit which helped with everything in the window display.. Think this is the version I will print.

Again, huge thanks for all the replies.