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osx11

macrumors 6502a
Jan 16, 2011
825
0
I just read this entire tread and to put it bluntly, and I'll go ahead and apologize now, you've pretty much proven my theory about Mac users right. Macs are for idiots.

And what I mean, specifically, Macs are for Windows idiots.

Sure, less viruses blah blah blah but of course Windows will have more. It's a more widely used and compatible system, hands down. That's a no brainer. I have a lot of experience with Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Linux Mint and Ubuntu, and of course Mac in various flavors. I'm a hardcore, HARDCORE, Windows user. I abuse the heck out of my systems. Why? Because they can handle it.

That's not to say Mac can't but I've been a primary Windows user since 3.1 and I've never had an issue with malware, viruses, or "bugs" -- at least not bugs that I could control.

The problem for many of you, it would seem, is that you're too stupid to properly operate the compatible and expandable system that Windows provides. Probably visiting the wrong websites to download some piece of software or not getting the good (and often free) AV scanners with web shields, and many other variables to consider.

Again, I've never had any of the issues you guys have been complaining about here.

So use your Macs, they're great machines. No doubt about it. But I'll keep firing away at my Windows... gaming, using Office, and all the other joys that come with using the world's most used system.

This turned more into a flame reply and I apologize. It's not meant to be that way. But my point stands. Mac is obviously more for users who don't know what they're doing.

While I generally agree with you (as a Mac user) I still think you should look more closely at your argument. First off, you should ask yourself whether or not all this knowledge that you presumably have should be necessary to operate a PC. There are still quite a lot of people with your level of knowledge but I think those type of people are simply getting less and less. Apple's "it just works" marketing is mostly true and many people would never bother with serious learning. Macs can do less than PCs, I'll give you that. But the things they do are generally more intuitive and dumbed-down, if you will. However, for many people this is enough.

Now in terms of reliability, Macs ARE more reliable than Windows machines. Mac OS is built on the Unix kernel. This IS a more stable foundation than Windows. It's why all seriously important software like power company energy management systems are almost exclusively run on Unix and not Windows. Windows does become slower with use and this is not really the case for Macs (or any Unix or Linux systems for that matter). Windows and its directories are a PITA and the systems does become bogged down over time.

Now a thought experiment: assume Macs cost the same as Windows PCs. Why should an ordinary user (Internet, Mail, Photos, Office....etc.) not buy a Mac?

All of my family has now switched to Macs and they couldn't be happier. I you constantly want to tinker with your system and worry about a lot of things then go the windows route. If you're short on time and simply want to actually use your computer then go with a Mac.

----------

In terms of price, hardware, and upgradability, I'm certainly considering a move to windows in my future. If apple won't let me upgrade a hard drive or RAM anymore, and expects me to spend $3k+ every two years, forget it. Razer blade 17" is looking pretty darn good ATM, even if it's expensive I can at least use it for a long while.

Why do you need a new $3000 Mac every two years?

If you're a serious Video/Photo/3D user and you're mostly submerged in these applications, then a Mac makes no sense. The Mac is great for everyday-use because of it's great interface and great usability. If you're just using Photoshop, for instance, then I don't think it's going to matter if that App is running on a Windows or Mac machine.
 

happyfrappy

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2007
343
50
Location eh?
In 1996 I tried a total shift to a Mac with awful results, keep in mind after 2006 the Mac version of Quicken is a castrated edition so you're stuck either running a virtual machine solution for Quicken or settle with a cheap PC.
Personally I gave up trying to stick with one OS over the other, if developers stopped butchering their software it wouldn't be a painful decision.

I only keep a PC around for three reasons:
--Quicken, cheaper to buy a PC w/Windows license than be held hostage with upgrading VMWare/Parallels every two or three years and waste $100 for a Windows license.
--Games, not all games have decent Mac ports and Wine wrappers are a crapshot if a new OS update/version breaks it (The Sims 3 & Spore are great examples)
--Pro Tools, I don't want to waste disk space on my Mac with this bloated piece of crap which only two friends of mine actually use.
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,086
8,627
Any place but here or there....
Since I use Windows at work

I know it's not something I'd want to use exclusively. It is fine for work and that's where it stays.

I admit when I was having trouble getting a good iMac in 2010, the thought crossed my mind for a day or two.

I love the simplicity of Apple's OS, and I like some knowledge of both platforms, but for personal use, Apple wins.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,119
1,302
I just read this entire tread and to put it bluntly, and I'll go ahead and apologize now, you've pretty much proven my theory about Mac users right. Macs are for idiots.

And what I mean, specifically, Macs are for Windows idiots.

Untrue. I have tons of Windows experience, and, I still use Windows frequently because I am forced to to get access to certain software. Nevertheless, OS X is far superior from the ground up right to the GUI.

Sure, less viruses blah blah blah but of course Windows will have more. It's a more widely used and compatible system, hands down. That's a no brainer. I have a lot of experience with Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8. Linux Mint and Ubuntu, and of course Mac in various flavors. I'm a hardcore, HARDCORE, Windows user. I abuse the heck out of my systems. Why? Because they can handle it.

I guess by "compatible" you mean bug-for-bug, vulnerability-for-vulnerability compatible? Because OS X security for ordinary users is obviously superior.

Now a thought experiment: assume Macs cost the same as Windows PCs. Why should an ordinary user (Internet, Mail, Photos, Office....etc.) not buy a Mac?

There is a reason, and, I partly blame Apple for it. There is much more third-party software on Windows, and, even when there is an OS X package, such as Quicken, it isn't file-for-file feature-for-feature compatible. Apple could do much more to support and encourage third-party software developers like Intuit to support Mac users equally and compatibly with Windows. It is for this reason that I am stuck with a Windows machine alongside the Mac.

In 1996 I tried a total shift to a Mac with awful results, keep in mind after 2006 the Mac version of Quicken is a castrated edition so you're stuck either running a virtual machine solution for Quicken or settle with a cheap PC.
Personally I gave up trying to stick with one OS over the other, if developers stopped butchering their software it wouldn't be a painful decision.

I only keep a PC around for three reasons:
--Quicken, cheaper to buy a PC w/Windows license than be held hostage with upgrading VMWare/Parallels every two or three years and waste $100 for a Windows license.
--Games, not all games have decent Mac ports and Wine wrappers are a crapshot if a new OS update/version breaks it (The Sims 3 & Spore are great examples)
--Pro Tools, I don't want to waste disk space on my Mac with this bloated piece of crap which only two friends of mine actually use.

Precisely. I wish Apple would do more to work these issues with developers so that there would be interoperable, equivalent packages for Macs.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,230
1,380
Brazil
OS X just works. It is simple and elegant. Windows works, but sometimes in a clunky way.

However, not everything will work on a Mac. On Windows, you can make about everything work.
 

Apple Trees

macrumors 6502
May 28, 2013
261
0
I'll never switch back to the inefficient mess that is Windows. At least never for my personal computer. I enjoy not having to check for viruses, terrible battery life, and constant "updates" everytime I get on my computer. I just need it to work and that's what a Mac does.
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I am actually trying very hard to move from Windows to OSX.
My personal experience with Windows has been more than fine especially with XP and 7. But I do like the idea of a more elegant OS, the manner that installed software is not spread across everywhere as in Windows, that Windows does slow down due to bog over time. No real need for AV is cool too.

My hardware experience with a Win machine has been great. Yes I build my own gaming rigs, but laptops are great, never a hardware issue or failure. Yes, the odd freeze for 10 secs, that a Win thing that as crept in on my current laptop, probably due to uTorrent

The issue I have with a Mac is hardware quality control, it really is getting poor. I don't read MR to seek out hardware issues, but I see them a lot. Im scared to buy a retina MBP/Air due to the retention issues. Then there are the yellow tinge issues. PC's and Mac share the same hardware, they are Intel based machines using same CPU range, chipset range, etc, etc, but when Apple adds their own stuff or design. such as Retina, the quality control is poor. I just dont see hardware issues like this in the PC world. BTW I spent 3 years building PC's so I am aware.

My conclusion is that I realise I don't really need a Mac, or currently want one
due to the hardware issues, off course I would like one. I actually only WANT OSX. Its nice, elegant, and as above superior to the way Windows manages itself.

I may buy a refurb, I may buy an older MBP, but OSX yes, Mac no, at the moment
 

Ronm01

macrumors newbie
Dec 31, 2013
21
0
Purchased Mac desktop in 2010 and had it partitioned into two 500 gigs with Windows 7 on one partition. I go to the Win side maybe once a month to catch up on an Access 7 database & couple of small Excel spreads. Do not like Windows, although used Win PCs from 1993 till 2010! Had I known in 2010 (first iMac) what I know now, I would have saved the needed data and recreated or converted to Mac apps. My next desktop will have no partitions... or minimal, at most, for other purposes. I find this Mac to be much more intuitive to use with many less problems. I've had some issues needing tech support to resolve, yet they've been few compared to previous experiences. I'm sold on the Apple family of products and have found peace with the proprietary nature of hardware & applications. I hope to remain an Apple fan for as long as possible.

This is a great site, btw!
 

three

Cancelled
Jan 22, 2008
1,484
1,225
I switched for the time being. I was saving for a MacBook Pro (to replace my aging Mac mini) and then I found out some bad news from the school I'm going to in a couple months... They only allow students in the ITCS course to have Windows 8 laptops, and specifically said no MacBooks with Boot Camp. I don't understand their reasoning towards that but I won't fight it. I spent the MacBook Pro savings on an Asus Q301LA laptop which is a decent looking and performing laptop for the price.

Windows 8 isn't terrible to be honest. I'm enjoying the experience for the most part but still miss OS X.
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
Purchased Mac desktop in 2010 and had it partitioned into two 500 gigs with Windows 7 on one partition. I go to the Win side maybe once a month to catch up on an Access 7 database & couple of small Excel spreads. Do not like Windows, although used Win PCs from 1993 till 2010! Had I known in 2010 (first iMac) what I know now, I would have saved the needed data and recreated or converted to Mac apps. My next desktop will have no partitions... or minimal, at most, for other purposes. I find this Mac to be much more intuitive to use with many less problems. I've had some issues needing tech support to resolve, yet they've been few compared to previous experiences. I'm sold on the Apple family of products and have found peace with the proprietary nature of hardware & applications. I hope to remain an Apple fan for as long as possible.

This is a great site, btw!

Nice post. You appear (correct me if I am wrong) to be referring more to OSX and Windows rather than hardware? I will, when I get a MBP/MBA not run Windows on it al all. I ill take the full conversion, and not use Bootcamp, I do have a high spec gaming rig running Win 7 if needed, but I like the idea of a full migration to OSX. Off course, for some users, there is a need for Windows
 

Dustman

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2007
1,381
238
Maybe I don't like change but the only Windows version I still enjoy using is Windows 2000. Everything seems so much more out of the way and more friendly to navigate.
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,203
3,145
a South Pacific island
Went back to Mac

I have never owned a Windows computer, and have little experience of the environment.

The first computer I used was the original Mac, at university 1985 - 87. We also used pre Windows MS-DOS machines.

Upon leaving university it was nearly decade before I had anything to do with computers again, but that was intermittent, battling with Windows 95 & 98. It was mainly for e-mail at internet cafes. It wasn't till I started my present job in late in 2003 that I started to use computers regularly at work. They were, and still are Windows XP.

I soon wanted my own computer to work from home more. I didn't want a portable (still don't) but, having moved a lot in my live, I did want something that was easily transportable.

When the Mac Mini came out, it fitted my needs exactly. The first computer I owned was an early 2005 Mac, on which I used Microsoft Office for Mac.

Interestingly, those apps I used 20 years previously also came from Microsoft.

I am on to my second Mac, also a Mini. I installed iWork, which is what I use for most of my work. I also had Mac Office 2008 installed, but have only occasional call to use it. Last week, for instance, I took my Mini to work to set up with a projector for students to give presentations. Many used PowerPoint.

I reckon my future will remain Windowsless, and largely free of Microsoft. If I did look elsewhere, it would be Linux.
 
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skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,230
1,380
Brazil
I have never owned a Windows computer, and have little experience of the environment.

The first computer I used was the original Mac, at university 1985 - 87. We also used pre Windows MS-DOS machines.

Upon leaving university it was nearly decade before I had anything to do with computers again, but that was intermittent, battling with Windows 95 & 98. It was mainly for e-mail at internet cafes. It wasn't till I started my present job in late in 2003 that I started to use computers regularly at work. They were, and still are Windows XP.

I soon wanted my own computer to work from home more. I didn't want a portable (still don't) but, having moved a lot in my live, I did want something that was easily transportable.

When the Mac Mini came out, it fitted my needs exactly. The first computer I owned was an early 2005 Mac, on which I used Microsoft Office for Mac.

Interestingly, those apps I used 20 years previously also came from Microsoft.

I am on to my second Mac, also a Mini. I installed iWork, which is what I use for most of my work. I also had Mac Office 2008 installed, but have only occasional call to use it. Last week, for instance, I took my Mini to work to set up with a projector for students to give presentations. Many used PowerPoint.

I reckon my future will remain Windowsless, and largely free of Microsoft. If I did look elsewhere, it would be Linux.


Do you have anything against Microsoft or Windows?

I think you should have some Windows experience some time in your life. More than 90% computers in the world run Windows, and you should consider using it as well, at least for gaining familiarity with a hugely popular platform. It will only add to your experience.

Said that, I never found Windows to be bad. I always managed to use it. Linux is the one I never managed to handle, no matter how hard I tried.
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,203
3,145
a South Pacific island
Do you have anything against Microsoft or Windows?

I think you should have some Windows experience some time in your life. More than 90% computers in the world run Windows, and you should consider using it as well, at least for gaining familiarity with a hugely popular platform. It will only add to your experience.

Said that, I never found Windows to be bad. I always managed to use it. Linux is the one I never managed to handle, no matter how hard I tried.

Nothing against Windows or Microsoft, but I have little call to use them. I am not interested in 90% of the computers in the world (a figure that is in retreat now anyway). I just know the Mac and the Apple apps i use work fine for me…… and the Windows / Microsoft apps I have experienced have been a hassle by comparison.
 
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Intelligent

macrumors 6502a
Aug 7, 2013
922
2
"Back", why does everyone assume mac users had windows before? I have never had it and probably will never get it. Any other only mac user? Thats never had windows?
 

LizKat

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2004
6,762
36,271
Catskill Mountains
Do I ever think about switching back? Not really.

Or not for a really really long time, let's put it that way. I once had a Toshiba laptop with a really great keyboard back in the early 90s I think it was. And on that setup I had some way nice little TSR program ("terminate and stay resident" -- basically a popup app in DOS environment) that was for note taking, can't remember the name, maybe something like Think Tank or... who knows. I swore by that back then, and missed it for quite awhile even after I decided I was done with DOS and Windoze.

At work we convinced the co to go Mac by dragging our semi-portable Macs into the job and taking work home to do it on them. Eventually the IT group did the math on their network maint (virus etc., all the idiots who just couldn't resist opening forwarded "joke" mails or whatever and clicking on bad links). And on their eternal hardware replacements for the travelling crowd if they used middle-line Windows based machines. Finally they went all Mac. People stopped leaving the creative departments, and the co could downsize the net maint crew and the raft of people they had wandering around cube to cube dealing with the "the screen is all blue!" stuff. I'm not saying they didn't have some exasperations with AIX and with individual setups' SCSI voodoo here and there in the early days, but it was nothing compared to the nightmares they had as virus coding for Windows apparently became as popular as eating three square meals a day...

Really ever after booting my first Mac (512k, 1985) I have not wanted to look back. I used Bootcamp and Windows on a MacBook Pro for awhile so I could get stuff from the county library system but really, maintaining the setup was a drag and what the library offered was not all I had hoped for. Not blaming the library; it's the publisher's licensing requirements that keep the offerings down to a duill roar, they have to buy another set of licenses every so many patron rentals per book. So anyway, whoosh! Gone. Back to all Mac all the time.
 

SandboxGeneral

Moderator emeritus
Sep 8, 2010
26,482
10,051
Detroit
I don't think about switching back and that is because I use both OS X and Windows every day. At home it's OS X, unless I boot into Windows 7 to play a Steam game once in a while. At work I use Windows to manage the networks and do all the things we do here.

I like both OS's and they work well for my needs.
 

jamietshaw

macrumors regular
Sep 25, 2009
106
31
UK
Due to some changes at work I’m now having to use a PC at least half the time, rather than just for the odd 10 minutes every now and then. I thought that because I was using it for longer, I would get used to it again. However, I hate it more and more. Just today I’ve encountered:
  • Used the scroll wheel in a Windows Explorer window (or whatever it’s called now –*why doesn’t it have a name?!) but the folder view scrolled rather than the files (a bug since Windows 98?)
  • Created some folders in the same Windows Explorer window, but they didn't show in the folder list. Even after pressing F5, only some of them appeared.
  • Went to rename a file (F2), pressed the right arrow to deselect the highlighted left side of the filename, and the cursor moved to the other side of the dot so then I had to left arrow back to where I wanted to be
  • Wanted a list of files but you can’t copy and paste into a text editor so I had to resort to the command line (dir /b > somefile.txt)
  • Wanted to go to the folder containing the document I had open – but you can’t just right-click on the title bar like you can in OS X
  • Wanted to make a new folder. There STILL isn’t a shortcut for this and the right-click menu is really slow to appear.
  • In Word, I kept having to cursor through spaces between words because the font rendering is dreadful – it often looks as though there are two spaces when in fact there isn’t.
  • I wanted to insert some unusual characters. The search feature in Character Map is dreadful.
  • The screen suddenly blanked out, then came back, then went again. This repeated several times then finally came back with some error message about a graphics driver failure. Actually, there were 3 of those messages.
  • Went to print a web page but there’s no OS-wide print preview function. Had to cancel then find the separate command for a preview.
  • Wanted to make a PDF of something but again, there’s no OS-wide feature for that.
  • Wanted to take a screenshot and save as a file. This is a lot easier than pre-Vista, thanks to the Snipping Tool (which finally introduced the ability to capture a user-defined area) but you still have to do the actual saving as separate set. It also captures any show-through of the translucent window (so you have to position your content over a white background, e.g Notepad, first) and the rounded window corners are squared off with some black.

This isn’t including the hardware, which just looks so… ugly.

It’s funny how when I complain about these sorts of things (and they are small, yet numerous) to PC users, they look at me rather blankly. I guess their definition of a computer *is* Windows, and they can’t comprehend that things could be different.

Of course, OS X isn’t perfect and Windows betters it in some ways such as for games but also little things (being able to get a path to a file, being able to delete and rename files from within Open and Save dialogs, the speed at which Office loads)
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
"Back", why does everyone assume mac users had windows before? I have never had it and probably will never get it. Any other only mac user? Thats never had windows?

Point us towards the statements that assumes that? I don't see that assumption. Naturally there will be many Mac users who started off on a Mac and still use a Mac. There will also be many who switched from Windows. I don't see in this thread an assumption that everyone had Windows before

However, the thread is targeted at those who switched from Windows, and weill you consider switching back. No assumption there, the thread targets past switchers, not the users who always used Macs
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I am now a recent switcher, and I like OSX. I am frustrated a little with the restrictions of Finder views, no folder tree in the sidebar, column view width is not flexible, and I still get cannot copy as file in use errors. If I ignore these issues, I am very happy with all else in OSX. No intention of switching back, ever
 

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
I recently switched back after 7 years with a Mac and it was really due to two reasons that made it a no brainer:

(1) Cost
(2) Needs

The first is obvious. I got a Haswell i5 with 8GB RAM, 1 TB HD, 1920x1080 15.6" screen and Intel HD 4600 graphics for ~$540 from Lenovo Outlet (Ideapad Z510). There's no way a Mac can hit those specs at that price.

Equally important is needs. I work and am going back to school for Accounting, so I really needed something with Windows and a 10-key. Granted I could have gone the MBA + Bootcamp + USB 10-key route, but I didn't want to pay more for an MBA, plus a license of Win 7/8, plus be limited by a much smaller partitioned SSD. I also have a moderate sized library of Steam games I have that I could no longer play on my old MacBook that I would like to play and the Intel 4600 handles things like Torchlight II, Left 4 Dead 2, Dota 2, or LoL just fine at 1920x1080. The 5000 series would be better, I'll give Apple credit there for making it the base option, but it was too much of a price increase on a Windows machine for some infrequent and casual gaming.

I've never had anything bigger than a 13.3" in terms of a personal computer (though I love my dual monitor set up at work), so I was a bit weary of a 15.6". While my Ideapad has a much bigger footprint, it is quite thin and light (for its size), combined with the much greater screen real estate, I think it was a great choice.

I don't hate Macs, I just couldn't justify the purchase of one at this time. Working full time, going to school part time, and paying out of pocket required a machine that could get the job done at the right price, and this sure does the trick. I'm completely fluent in anything OS X, Win XP/7/8, so OS means nothing to me. I still have my MacBook - it's useless to sell (too old) and near impossible to repurpose (battery swollen so MagSafe only). If I use it for anything, it might be as a download hub or something.
 
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