No, that's not Google's business model, they don't sell any data.
And yes, it is clear that you have not read the Google Apps policies
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Google's Chromebooks Overtake Apple's iPads for First Time in U.S. Education Market
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No, that's not Google's business model, they don't sell any data.
And yes, it is clear that you have not read the Google Apps policies
It strikes me (judging by the postings) that most of the people in this discussion aren't old enough to have kids , let alone discuss their educational needs.
For those that are and can, if you look at how schools use chromebooks or tablets you'll notice that most of them never use apps. They (the kids) connect to educational websites or research sites, hardly ever an app. This requires an internet connection and negates the advantage of using a tablet.
If all kids require is a browser then why give them the complexity of a tablet, and the additional cost. They don't need anything more than a browser to get the work done, but they do need a keyboard and that's something else that the tablet doesn't have (a physical one). Giving each kid a bluetooth keyboard for a tablet is not only extra cost but also more likely to see breakages or losses as the keyboard is a separate item and kids being kids..
So it's not only a cost issue. Ipads could cost the same as a chromebook and I doubt you'd see much improvement in the penetration of tablets in schools. Just not the right tech for the job.
Sure the kids would probably pick ipads if given a choice but then it's not their choice. They would probably pick Pizza instead of a home cooked dinner if given a choice but it doesn't make it right.
For those that are and can, if you look at how schools use chromebooks or tablets you'll notice that most of them never use apps. They (the kids) connect to educational websites or research sites, hardly ever an app. This requires an internet connection and negates the advantage of using a tablet.
If all kids require is a browser then why give them the complexity of a tablet, and the additional cost. They don't need anything more than a browser to get the work done, but they do need a keyboard and that's something else that the tablet doesn't have (a physical one). Giving each kid a bluetooth keyboard for a tablet is not only extra cost but also more likely to see breakages or losses as the keyboard is a separate item and kids being kids..
So it's not only a cost issue. Ipads could cost the same as a chromebook and I doubt you'd see much improvement in the penetration of tablets in schools. Just not the right tech for the job.
Sure the kids would probably pick ipads if given a choice but then it's not their choice. They would probably pick Pizza instead of a home cooked dinner if given a choice but it doesn't make it right.
Policy itself is a close-sighted consideration of Google. Two words: brand influence. Just as Chrome didn't get any traction on the market because it was any better than the then-existing browsers. It was simply heavily promoted by a well-known brand (for better and worse)
Seems that I can only read opposite views on that. How much do they have?
There's a fundamental speed difference when using an Internet application vs. a local one, as pointed below:
They don't sell the data individually. They build extremely detailed meta profiles, including if you're not using any Google service, and sell it for profit, or offer it to the US state when requested. Not from data reaped off the education market, granted.
But someone here said "Chromebooks in education are a seamless experience if one is already using Google's services". Why would this corporation care about their education privacy policy? It's not like they had respect for the concept.
They don't need a laptop in this case. Computers running Ubuntu in classes would do the job nicely.
You still don't get it - Schools don't want Ubuntu. They don't want windows, they don't want ANY os that's going to require IT resources. You're thinking like a tech, a geek , someone who spends time playing with technology for fun. Schools are not you - they are there to teach, not play with IT stuff.
They want something simple, that just switches on, updates automatically and needs little or no input from them. that's why Chromebooks work for them and it's why the numbers are increasing. You may not like it, it may not work for you, but then again , you're not a school.
They want something simple, that just switches on, updates automatically and needs little or no input from them. that's why Chromebooks work for them and it's why the numbers are increasing. You may not like it, it may not work for you, but then again , you're not a school.
Wrong, no profile is sold to anyone
Like every other company.
More opinion?
Not really, chrome didnt get traction until 2010/2011 when firefox had slowed down its development and wasnt bringing out a lot of new features.
Add to that easy integration with gmail what a lot of people used anyway and lots of ne users that wanted an alternative to IE .
ex :
http://www.filterjoe.com/2010/06/09/best-browsers-2010-five-browser-comparison/
Conclusions And Why I Switched to Chrome
Chromebooks can work offline as well, have been able to do that for over a year .
and they have 16/64GB of storage and sd card slot .
Again offline use is possible for all google apps and a lot of the others.
And this is still for light use, speed difference is going to be small to non excisting .
And will be alot more expensive . That still is the issue .
This is spot on, K-12 schools, at least the ones I went to are extremely lacking in IT, and while I'm sure schools are hiring more as of recent, the last thing the teachers care about is what os the machine is running. They just want it to always work and be something they don't have to think about.
There's no Apple Tax. It's the highest quality and best built tablets out there. Even Fandroids admit to quality of iPads, especially after HTC's embarrassing Nexus 9 tablet.
Google Chromebooks are winning purely due to cost. Cost is the only reasons Chromebooks still exist.
There's a reason why they're so cheap, after all. It isn't because the makers are so nice to their customers.
I'm not saying that Chromebooks are cheap, but it is not the only reason to use them
Well, no, it isn't. I believe price will be there key on some markets, though. Chromebooks are, in general, for people in the Google Ecosystem who only need limited offline capabilities. It is evolving, yes, but for now it is limited.
But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I might have to pick up another Chromebook to see how it's evolved so far. Not soon, though, I'm getting my bills under control and I just moved. But eventually.
I'm still waiting for Apple to support mice and trackpads on the iPad.
So true. While I don't think you'll see a pure iOS device ever support a mouse, their keyboard support is just sad.
- System autocorrect doesn't work when using a bluetooth keyboard...why?
- They have keyboard with a home key, they should enable a shortcut to move between apps in the app switcher.
- Shortcuts for notification center, control center, etc.
- Better Safari keyboard support (tab switcher page)
The list goes on. I don't see why adding this could hurt. For basic users who never use a keyboard it is completely transparent. For users, like me, who occasionally use a keyboard it would be such a step up in experience.
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I still find the Chromebook concept an interesting idea. For a casual user in an area with stable internet it is probably sufficient. Online services are becoming more and more robust. For me personally, I want a full system offline (even if I rarely go offline) and I prefer native apps to feature inhibited web apps.
One thing I don't like about Google Chrome now is that it is trying to become your whole world on other systems. Installing Chrome on your Mac or PC is potentially like installing a mini Chrome OS.
you do realize they are doing papers which is what 30kb? yes kb
Even browsing the web they will use very little resources.
Heck, most places have free wifi available... I use my cell phone daily I barely break 2gb now a month coming from 10gb usage. Why? between all the restaurants, coffee shops, school, work and home. I'm always on wifi
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That is the true. I was computer guru for restarting the computers if they would freeze.
My sister knows facebook, twitter, snapchat and what ever else a white female uses the starbucks app maybe?
Comes to excel? not a clue Word? knows how to type and save kinda print because it wont print for whatever reason and she decides to click about 100 more times.
O and netflix pass that she knows nothing.
All I know is everyone who used them normally and carried them in their backpacks had to get them replaced because pieces fell off, ports stopped working, screens failed, etc. It's worth noting however that these were Samsung models. I know the school wanted everyone to use Google services but no one wanted to use Google (dead serious), and we had spotty Wi-Fi with no local storage which made using them somewhat difficult. It was like having a laptop if the only thing you could use was the browser.
Chrome books come in varying flavors and price tags. You can get them in both arm and x86, tiny flash drives or 320GB spinners, 1366x768, 1080 and the Pixel. Adobe is offing CC for the chrome book for education customers if that's your thing. While they've never much appealed to me they are fairly flexible and seem a good buy for schools.
True. It's also worth noting that school IT managers don't always order in good products. Some schools do, but I won't forget very quickly my school having RM PCs and software that meant the teacher's computers took an hour to log in every morning.
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I'm sorry, I stand corrected! This is really interesting, thanks for the update
I guess it shows Google have finally admitted HTML is NOT a good development platform for the PC.
Yes. I have an Asus C720 that makes it easy to be productive. Also, once the lid is raised, it comes on. No bloatware and no anti-virus software.
iPads are great, but for the education sector, chromebooks are superior.
No computer ever existed that required NO IT resource. Even the few Chromebooks students bought here are seen as often as Windows machines because they can't work with existing infrastructure correctly.
And what do you think Google's business model is?
Like every US company. There's a reason why foreign companies and consumers are wary of using any US-based service or storage.
True, Firefox didn't bring new features but rather polished the existing ones. But "improving" was never in fashion. So Firefox made the great mistake of engaging in a "numbers war" with Chrome, bringing the quality down. Luckily for the informed, there's still the ESR version which follows a more bearable development cycle.
No one can blame people to want something else than IE. But when did Gmail switched from invitation-only to public subscription?
And why we always tell students to ditch Chrome if they want to properly access university's resources: lack privacy, crappy add-ons, doesn't work with proxy.
I'll trust you on that, the idea of an online-only OS seemed so ridiculous the first time I heard it that I didn't spend even one minute staying updated about them.
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and they have 16/64GB of storage and sd card slot .[/quote]16GB of internal storage doesn't qualify for full offline connectivity. Even with a 64GB SD card, it's simply too small for anything significant nowadays. So apps can execute offline, but you can't actually store anything on them. Meaning you MUST rely on Google's services to store and retrieve your documents. Tough luck if you want to use another provider. On the other hand, knowing that you can't work with heavy stuff because 1- you can't store it locally 2- your Internet is probably not fast enough for a seamless transfer, does it matter much?
This will change once 5Gbps/2ms ping connections become widespread. Oh wait. This is also part of Google's plans. Makes sense now.
Think about lag, not pure speed. Just as a normal computer equipped with a spinning HDD will have significant lag. The same machine with an SSD will have less, even if execution speed is identical.
Isn't it ironic that manufacturers started make full, offline computers much faster thanks to the increasing use of SSDs and on the other hand, some others go the opposite way making them slower by relying on the Internet to get anything done?
No expensive license to pay for, wholesale prices on barebones machines. How would that be "a lot more expensive"?
Such a computer doesn't exist.
Maybe this will change if the rumor around the iPad Pro turns out to be true?
Maybe that's the reason why some buy the Surface series of tablets? Great keyboard, known OS, even if it still doesn't work properly with WPA2-Entreprise networks.
Wisely said. Stable internet and 3G/4G is an oxymoron, but common coffee-shop wifis as well. And don't forget about the ping, the single most important measure when working online. Pings of 100 still aren't uncommon.
Said it. Imperialist policy.
Do you ever browse more than one site at once? Thinking that browsing is "light" computer usage is probably one of the most common lie people keep repeating themselves.
Most places have free, unreliable wifi, correct. Subway? No. Bus? No.
What were their reasons for not wanting to use G's services?
Seems there's more variety now than before among Chromebooks.
I also received the Mathematica newsletter saying that it would now be offered online, and I couldn't help thinking "Are you ****ing kidding me ? How do you expect students to load heavy datasets online slowly and receive the results just as slowly?". Just couldn't help remembering appalling experience trying to install Office 365 on PCs and Macs. Now we send back students to the shop they bought the suite from because we don't want to deal with that nightmare again, and ask them to have it installed for them.
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I really don't want to involve myself to much in your anti-google holy war some of it is valid others not so much. Adobe CC doesn't require you to be online all the time, you install the SW locally and the SW calls home on occasion to make sure your account is still valid and in corporate and government it doesn't even do that. My more general point was chome books are powerful enough to run "pro" SW and most have USB3 so you just use an external as scratch. Chrome books are not perfect solutions but they are good enough and better than iPads in this use case.
2007? And by then it already had millions of users .
Not really sure what you want to say, chrome was released 2008 .
Chrome should work as well as firefow. Add-ons are practicly the same and never had any issues with proxy.
Privacy? That is an argument perhaps for sensitive data/research not for the average student .
Not sure what you do with your mail/docs but where I work the mail box is limited to 250MB, and we get 500MB of server reserved space.16GB of internal storage doesn't qualify for full offline connectivity. Even with a 64GB SD card, it's simply too small for anything significant nowadays. So apps can execute offline, but you can't actually store anything on them. Meaning you MUST rely on Google's services to store and retrieve your documents. Tough luck if you want to use another provider. On the other hand, knowing that you can't work with heavy stuff because 1- you can't store it locally 2- your Internet is probably not fast enough for a seamless transfer, does it matter much?
Google offers you 100GB .
I dont ever used local disc space for anything work related, I do seriously hope you dont either so I always find that argument strange in any work/student related discussion.
As for movies and such, attach disk or store it localy, 10+GB is more then enough for a couple of films and that is already beyond what this is actually meant for .
Internet speed is indeed perhaps an issue but only if you work with large files, and I do wonder what light work you do that envolves large files?
Wel chromebooks are always SSD, you seem to think that the entire OS runs offline/cloud? It runs localy and only updates changes, this is basicly no difference in speed when working with google docs on any laptop with SSD. The CPU is slower yes, so heavy calculations in spreadsheets are going to be slower but beyond that I never see difference between working in google docs or working at work with office .
No, it depends on what you need . I find it great we have choice, for some a chromebook is better then the most expensive macbook for others useless .
Cause you are not thinking it trough.
To start with: who will install the OS? You need someone with experience not just with ubuntu, but ubuntu in a larger setup/campus . Then you need to make sure whatever you need runs on it and is compatible with it as most software/sites . Then you need to provide support which means you need people+replacements trained in it.
Look at what munich did, huge project with huge budget to change to unix and even there users arent happy and costs arent lower . A small school will have the same issues and no budget .
A chromebook is basicly like ios, it just works and that is very handly in any such environment with students
No computer ever existed that required NO IT resource. Even the few Chromebooks students bought here are seen as often as Windows machines because they can't work with existing infrastructure correctly.
And what do you think Google's business model is?
Like every US company. There's a reason why foreign companies and consumers are wary of using any US-based service or storage.
True, Firefox didn't bring new features but rather polished the existing ones. But "improving" was never in fashion. So Firefox made the great mistake of engaging in a "numbers war" with Chrome, bringing the quality down. Luckily for the informed, there's still the ESR version which follows a more bearable development cycle.
No one can blame people to want something else than IE. But when did Gmail switched from invitation-only to public subscription?
And why we always tell students to ditch Chrome if they want to properly access university's resources: lack privacy, crappy add-ons, doesn't work with proxy.
I'll trust you on that, the idea of an online-only OS seemed so ridiculous the first time I heard it that I didn't spend even one minute staying updated about them.
and they have 16/64GB of storage and sd card slot .16GB of internal storage doesn't qualify for full offline connectivity. Even with a 64GB SD card, it's simply too small for anything significant nowadays. So apps can execute offline, but you can't actually store anything on them. Meaning you MUST rely on Google's services to store and retrieve your documents. Tough luck if you want to use another provider. On the other hand, knowing that you can't work with heavy stuff because 1- you can't store it locally 2- your Internet is probably not fast enough for a seamless transfer, does it matter much?
This will change once 5Gbps/2ms ping connections become widespread. Oh wait. This is also part of Google's plans. Makes sense now.
Think about lag, not pure speed. Just as a normal computer equipped with a spinning HDD will have significant lag. The same machine with an SSD will have less, even if execution speed is identical.
Isn't it ironic that manufacturers started make full, offline computers much faster thanks to the increasing use of SSDs and on the other hand, some others go the opposite way making them slower by relying on the Internet to get anything done?
No expensive license to pay for, wholesale prices on barebones machines. How would that be "a lot more expensive"?
Such a computer doesn't exist.
Maybe this will change if the rumor around the iPad Pro turns out to be true?
Maybe that's the reason why some buy the Surface series of tablets? Great keyboard, known OS, even if it still doesn't work properly with WPA2-Entreprise networks.
Wisely said. Stable internet and 3G/4G is an oxymoron, but common coffee-shop wifis as well. And don't forget about the ping, the single most important measure when working online. Pings of 100 still aren't uncommon.
Said it. Imperialist policy.
Do you ever browse more than one site at once? Thinking that browsing is "light" computer usage is probably one of the most common lie people keep repeating themselves.
Most places have free, unreliable wifi, correct. Subway? No. Bus? No.
What were their reasons for not wanting to use G's services?
Seems there's more variety now than before among Chromebooks.
I also received the Mathematica newsletter saying that it would now be offered online, and I couldn't help thinking "Are you ****ing kidding me ? How do you expect students to load heavy datasets online slowly and receive the results just as slowly?". Just couldn't help remembering appalling experience trying to install Office 365 on PCs and Macs. Now we send back students to the shop they bought the suite from because we don't want to deal with that nightmare again, and ask them to have it installed for them.
Do I? Yes about 20 tabs open
Will a student that is on locked down device probably will just have a couple tabs of research while typing a paper... Still can type a paper without wifi and save it goggle drive when you get internet access.
Heck you can even download the website for offline use. Have smart phone? tether it for a short time plenty of options
Buses do i have wifi if you pay for it....
So you should understand why the machine would need more than 2GBs RAM.
Ok, type and don't save anything. Just eagerly waiting for the first crash
Would these students be expected to try to get familiar with any kind of reference-management software? Because no such one exist on Chromebooks unless one happens to run both Firefox and Zotero, which won't happen because they're not Google's. I was probably one of the last to be shown how to format a bibliography by hand. Tedious, useless skill thank you very much.
This is completely in reverse of the common sense. Websites are linked to others for a reason. And no browser allow, straight out of the box, downloading a complete website. If speed is not an issue, size and overhead are. You never know how large is really a website.
Intercity buses yes. City buses? No.