Believe it or not, this computer is officially less reliable than my PC.

Meyvn said:

RAM test went fine. Anything else?

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Yes, do what three people have suggested. Take out the 3rd party RAM and run for a few weeks. Report on your results.

just to add my two cents...

If you are like me and installed 65gb of software on your mac then it might be a good idea to do a clean install of OS X before attempting to remove the ram... if however you are a normal user and you haven't done any major software overhauls since you got the mac then just remove the third party ram as others have suggested

jer2eydevil88 said:

just to add my two cents...

If you are like me and installed 65gb of software on your mac then it might be a good idea to do a clean install of OS X before attempting to remove the ram... if however you are a normal user and you haven't done any major software overhauls since you got the mac then just remove the third party ram as others have suggested

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Why? That sounds completely backwards to me. If the RAM is the problem, wouldn't it be better to not have to install those 65gb of software again.

Take a backup in any case.

Then remove the RAM. It's very likely to be RAM when you get frequent kernel panics that aren't connected to a particular application or pattern of use.

So, have you tried taking out the RAM?
Please give us news, I'm interested in learning such things too

kernel panics can be due to a lot more than just RAM. a failing logic board could do everything he's mentioned.

I remember the good old days where I had 5 local stores I could take my memory to and have tested for free...

I'd lean towards the 'start small and work up' approach.

First, run for a while without external hardware connected. The only kernel panic I've ever had was due to an outdated driver for my Mac Mini's external M-Audio Transit digital audio box.

If you still get the problem, create a new user account in System Preferences -> Accounts. Run as this other user for a few days (or until you've hit another kernel panic). If you get the 'You must restart your computer' kernel panic as the new user, you now know that your user account isn't the cause of the problem.

Next up, pull the 3rd party RAM and run on the Apple stock RAM for a while. If it still crashes, replace the 3rd party RAM and pull the Apple-supplied RAM. Run for a while...

If the thing still panics, boot from your OS Install disc and perform an Archive & Install (and turn on the 'preserve user folders' setting) reinstallation of OS X. This is the least destructive way of rebuilding the operating system. I'd back up your home folder and have your application install CD's around anyway, just in case.

Should it still happen, do a full backup of your home folder and do an Erase and Install reinstallation of OS X. This will reformat the drive, during which any physical defects on the drive will be uncovered. Reinstall everything step by step, testing stability between each install. Leave potentially 'risky' installations until last (I'm thinking of 3rd party drivers, hacks, tweaks, etc).

If the machine still panics, then yes -- I'd imagine the hardware is to blame.

i had so many of thos errors just days after recieving my ibook in the mail. i eventually got it replaced. im now selling that replacment and buying a pc again(thinkpad) cause apple quality sucks sumthin awful.

EDIT* dont get me wrong, i love the apple os, but if hippie steve jobs doesnt soon use his little brian and realise all his products suck except for his os and license it for use on pc's, hes going to be up ****-creak.

Oh... nearly forgot!

Most often OS X will help you identify the cause of kernel panics.

• Open up Applications/Utilities/Console
• If you can't see a list of files down the left side of the Console window, click the Log button on the toolbar
• In the list, click the triangle beside /Library/Logs
• Click panic.log to view the Kernel Panic log which gets appended to each time your machine panics.

Then, copy & paste one of the crashes (they're date-stamped, so you'll be able to identify a single event) into this thread, and we'll take a look! No promises, but sometimes the log narrows things down to a particular subsystem (e.g. USB, Audio, filesharing, etc).

This is one of the things I love about Unix-based systems. They'll tell you what's going on! Sometimes in more detail than you could ever wish for This contrast greatly with Windows's "GAAH! I'M HURT! IRQL_NOT_LEVEL_OR_EQUAL 0Cx00200001! GO FIGURE THAT OUT, TECH-SUPPORT GUY!"

marchcapital said:

...cause apple quality sucks sumthin awful.

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Yeah, that's why Apple computers are consistently rated as among the highest quality by Consumer Reports, PC Magazine reader surveys, etc.

dejo said:

Yeah, that's why Apple computers are consistently rated as among the highest quality by Consumer Reports, PC Magazine reader surveys, etc.

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id like a link to that statistic please.

for every 100 computers in the homes around the world 2 are macs. know thats an interesting statistic, i wonder why.

Platform said:

Windows solution.....don't go there that fast

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he he...i have never heard reinstalling windows called that, but that is accurate with what i have seen and done with windows 98

but with os 9 on my ibook, i only had to reinstall once in five years of continuous usage compared with windows, where i would reinstall windows 98 once a year...but to be fair microsoft got it better with w2k and xp and they are as stable as os x, but not as elegantly designed

when working and newly reinstalled, windows 98 was about the same as os 9 when it came to crashing and reliabilty, but weird problems, not related to memory would eventually plague windows and cause frustration where os 9 would remain stable...os x is more stable than os 9 in most things (jaguar) and i suspect panther and tiger are even more reliable...so like most have said, it could be the ram, and maybe even the hard drive

after ruling out the ram, or hard drive issues, you can then try the reinstall

i hope all works out well

marchcapital said:

id like a link to that statistic please.

for every 100 computers in the homes around the world 2 are macs. know thats an interesting statistic, i wonder why.

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c'mon guys... we're trying to help this person get their computer back up and working. Take the hate somewhere else

marchcapital said:

id like a link to that statistic please.

for every 100 computers in the homes around the world 2 are macs. know thats an interesting statistic, i wonder why.

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being a professional tech and an avid reader and subscriber to pc and mac magazines, i would generally say that apple has held its own against pc makers

since 1999, probably due to unbeatable price for performance, dell seems to get the most 90% and 4 and 5 star ratings from the pc magazines compared with other pc makers

from mid 1998-2001, both macworld and most pc magazines seem to be in love with most apple products and one year named the tibook the portable of the year in 2001

but from then on, reviews both from tech sources and non tech sources have been mixed when it came to macs...while i don't think this automatically means apple's quality has gone down, i think the amazing reinvigoration of apple with steve jobs produced some great stuff (imac, ibook, tibook, os x) in those early years that we all expected that same quality every year and raised the bar...apple didn't keep up and couldn't since even steve jobs can't outdo himself

i think, from the reviews and repairs, and what i read, too from these forums, it appears that macs have, let's say been slightly better than the average pc in the last 3 years, where before in that 1998-2001 period, most macs just crushed the pc machine both in reliability and operating system design

like it or not, the pc world got a huge boost with windows 2000 and windows xp

during the height of apple's quality in that 1998-2001 period, i have read market share, on a monthly sales basis, being quoted as high as 14% percent for desktops and 20% percent for laptops and i wished i had kept those issues to prove it so i can scan those reviews on this thread for y'all

...of course, we all know that the share numbers are now between 2-3% percent on monthly market share figures in at least the last two years and it's my belief that it's because there has been a downturn in quality from what i have seen and heard

that being said, macs are probably more reliable than 60% percent of the pcs out there and they are certainly better than low end dells, emachines, and low end gateway machines i have encountered

i have had more calls about repairing macs lately from later models where calls to fix earlier models from 1998-2001 were very rare

these days, with great prices on computers, get both a mac and a pc because there is no rule that says you have to hate windows/pcs if you own a mac

btw...i see you have a mac

besides having my three macs, i have considered getting a second pc and sony, alienware, and toshiba have been my top choices for a pc laptop (their reviews seem to slightly wow critics more than ibooks and powerbooks where as emachine and some other pc laptops get lower ratings than ibooks and powerbooks).... and maybe a sony for a desktop...or homebuilt pc desktop

thats juss cause ppl really like the os. i absolutly love the os i said the hardware sucks sumthing awful. if i didnt its what i ment to say.

marchcapital said:

thats juss cause ppl really like the os. i absolutly love the os i said the hardware sucks sumthing awful. if i didnt its what i ment to say.

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Did you see my link.

On the desktop side, readers say that Apple systems needed repairs only 11 percent of the time, an astonishing number when you consider that the closest competing score is Sony's at 16 percent. Just 17 percent of Apple notebooks needed repair—second to Averatec's 14 percent—but this is still amazingly low considering that no one else is under 20 percent.

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i highly doubt ibm is above 20%

marchcapital said:

i highly doubt ibm is above 20%

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Do you think pcmag would lie about that?

gekko513 said:

Here you go.

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i think macs are better than most pc machines, but also that that statistic reflects us macheads' fierce loyalty to apple, even with problems and that occassional lemon or doa computer

i rather like professional reviewer ratings from technicians, engineers, technical reviewers/writers vs. loyalty based ratings since i think it's a better statistical reading in accuracy

i have a fiece loyalty to volvos and i know older track records prove it from car reviews...but volvo quality has definitely gone downhill a little, but my strong emotional attachment to the company will probably ensure that my next car is still a volvo

i have my two sides with macs, too...the side that sees a machine that is like a member of the family to me with consistently beautiful designs and the more analytical side as a mac and pc repairman, computer teacher and tutor, and former phd computer engineeging student who balances out the reality

so i can say macs are one of the better machines but it would be erroneous to call it the best computer based on customer loyalty from a group of people, me included, that LOVE our macs

marchcapital said:

id like a link to that statistic please.

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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1851295,00.asp

I can't link you to the actual Consumer Reports piece since you need to be a subscriber, but here's a start:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/12/08/consumer/index.php

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003May/bma20030530020201.htm

marchcapital said:

for every 100 computers in the homes around the world 2 are macs. know thats an interesting statistic, i wonder why.

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I'd like a link to that statistic please.

gekko513 said:

Did you see my link.

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as an apple, dell, and compaq road technician, the A+/CompTIA/IEEE sponsored repair company, which is in texas and owned by dell, only reported the PCs as repairs and didn't report the macs because apple split with CompTIA affilation shortly before i became a tech and thus CompTIA and IEEE didn't need those numbers

and from what i have found, since us macheads seem to be more "in love" with our machines, it has led people like me, and many others to get more literate on any form of technology

much of what were repairs on pc machines were just showing up and tutoring the pc user how to navigate around windows and while there was not a problem with the pc, but the pc user , it was still reported to our company as a "repair"

my love of computers, mostly due to postive experiences with the mac vs a negative experience with a pc with, let's say windows 3.1 or windows 95/98, not only made me a tech, but also a computer student, tutor, and teacher...and many a pc certified tech or C++ or visual basic programming teacher first got inspired by the apple IIe or 1984 macintosh

so behind every number, there may or may not be statistics and thus the saying, "there are liars, there are big liars, and then there are statistics" and only a proper understanding of statistics, and in my case CompTIA and IEEE, helped me realize that macs are only slightly superior and slightly more relibable, not WAY, WAY more like many a non technical mac user preaches

jethatfield: I tend to agree, but still, if people who use Macs like Macs so much that they give them a high degree in a user satisfaction survey, there has to be a reason for it.

Also, as I understand it these are percentages needing repair as reported by the users not by the tech-people, so the people who need help setting up their wireless network and consider it a "repair" could happen on the PC side as well as the Mac side.

if we as mac users were more honest about the truth, as reported, say "due to a disaapointing macworld "fill in the blank" conference, apple's stock lost "percentage" o fthe value of their stock...the story about a disappointing downturn could be right in the wall street journal, but many macheads i have met would disclaim the story and replace it with some mac mythology

apple looked foolish pushing the megahertz myth for so long since most pc users, and first time computer shoppers, saw through the hype

while us mac users are great about promoting apple inc, too many mac users overstate the statistics and severly downplay the negatives, the few that do pop up, that it really hurts the credibility of what mac users say

the most balanced views i have heard from concerning the mac are users who are both technically saavy to a certain point and own or have owned both pcs and macs and see positives and negatives to both platforms

the day should be over where mac users hate pcs, intel, microsoft, or whoever and there will still be the occassional mac user who doesn't like microsoft office for macs because it has some dark energy being from a company associated with the dark master himself, bill "satan" gates

jefhatfield said:

apple looked foolish pushing the megahertz myth for so long since most pc users, and first time computer shoppers, saw through the hype

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You may well be right that some Mac users can be as fanatic as AMD supporters, but the megahertz myth thing was and is true and even Intel has stopped pushing for megahertz alone. So don't use the megahertz myth if you want to give an example of Mac reality distortion fields.