Mac Pro and Woodcrest: Confirmed?

jiggie2g said:

I can't wait till august so when i get my Conore i can break all your hearts. when u see my Conroe clock up at 3.6ghz and blow that overpriced MacPro trash out of the water. Then please tell me that Core 2 belongs in an iMac. I swear you people deserve to be stuck with IBM/Freescale for another 5yrs.

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How is it an insult to conroe to say that a desktop chip should go in a moderately priced desktop? And perhaps more to the point, why exactly are you so worked up about someone insulting conroe... is it your personal creation or something? You do realize that both PCs and Macs will be using both conroes and woodcrests in various configurations, right? It's not like woodcrest is an apple product. So what exactly are you so worked up about?

Do you really think anyone here will care if you overclock your conroe-based PC? Let alone "break our hearts?" Have fun.

Even if you had a point worth making, your attitude is so repulsive that I don't know why anyone would want to listen to you.

Gurutech said:

I believe the max TDP of G5 processor is something like 80 W.

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The below lists power consumed by the part, they are not TDP numbers (only part of the power consumed by a chip leaves the chip as heat, heat is what you have to dissipate and is what TDP attempts define).

PPC 970fx power optimized part (@ 2GHz)
40W average, 45-50 W max, 23 W throttle back (half frequency)

PPC 970fx standard part (@ 2GHz)
48W average, 55-60 W max, 29 W throttle back (half frequency)

To me this puts the PPC 970fx below the TDP of a Conroe... I would say the TDP for the PPC 970fx (@2Ghz) is around 40 W (if not lower).

Multimedia said:

I hope for it. But only think it might be a long shot BTO option because Blu-Ray recorders are close to $1,000 so far. Even the players are almost $1,000. So this seems like an option for next year.

I also hope for a dual 5.25" external bay design.

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I agree that Apple will wait on the Blu-Ray drives. Apple did jump on the BR bandwagon to support the format, but without a standard, I doubt they will call off all other bets.

Apple has a history of picking standardized I/O. Apple invented firewire (or at least licenses out the technology) and included it once it was approved by the IEEE. The same thing with their Airport technology. Once the 802.11 were decided upon, Apple released that product.

This high-def disk stuff is still too limited in its everyday usefulness. Of course there are always early adopters and people that have to have it right away, but Apple's entire pro line jeopardized by the price constraints of including a $1000 BR drive, or even having to support it, doubtful.

Evangelion said:

Yes it would. Ever heard of economies of scale? If Apple told Intel "we want to buy 600.000 Woodcrests from you", they would get a nice discount. Spread that purchase over several different CPU's, and the discount is not that nice anymore. Furtermore, having two different CPU's, two different chipsets and two different types of RAM in single line of computers, is going to make inventory-management and maintentance quite a bit more expensive than having single lineup with one type of compoennts.

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This may be the case for say HP or Gateway , however Apple is Intel's new Darling and gets the best deal in the industry , so good infact that it prompted Dell to no longer feature Intel as it's exclusive chip vendor and as a resuld Dell will be introducing AMD based Desktops in August just to spite Intel for doing this.

No matter how u configure a machine a Single CPU Woodcrest will never be as cost effiecient as a Conroe. Not to mention the need for ECC-ram , and expensive EPS12 PSU and Server Mobo.

QCassidy352 said:

How is it an insult to conroe to say that a desktop chip should go in a moderately priced desktop? And perhaps more to the point, why exactly are you so worked up about someone insulting conroe... is it your personal creation or something? You do realize that both PCs and Macs will be using both conroes and woodcrests in various configurations, right? It's not like woodcrest is an apple product. So what exactly are you so worked up about?

Do you really think anyone here will care if you overclock your conroe-based PC? Let alone "break our hearts?" Have fun.

Even if you had a point worth making, your attitude is so repulsive that I don't know why anyone would want to listen to you.

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I think his point was that most tech geeks are freaking out about the revolutionary core 2 architecture, be it in the conroe, woodcrest or merom. For people to view conroe as a lesser chip in some way smacks of mac snobbery and I tend to agree with him.

greenstork said:

I think his point was that most tech geeks are freaking out about the revolutionary core 2 architecture, be it in the conroe, woodcrest or merom. For people to view conroe as a lesser chip in some way smacks of mac snobbery and I tend to agree with him.

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Exactly. Numerous people have tried to explain that Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest basically are the same CPU, yet few people seem to have understood it yet. The differences between the parts are almost exclusively external (or atleast not related to the execution core), like socket and FSB frequency. The core architecture has even been said by Intel reps to be the same. The only reason for a Woodcrest CPU to perform better than a Conroe (the non-Extreme edition) would be because of the slightly faster FSB. This advantage could soon be negated by the use of FB-DIMMs.

So, why get so worked up over this?

greenstork said:

For people to view conroe as a lesser chip in some way smacks of mac snobbery and I tend to agree with him.

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...but they are a lesser chip in some ways (more so if you also consider the chipset)...

(not forgetting AMD in the following... just trying to keep it simple... also note when I say Conroe or Woodcrest I am also implying different class of chipsets)

The simple fact is workstation class systems from most vendors (in recent history) are usually based on Xeon (now Woodcrest) CPUs with 2 sockets (if not more) while desktop class systems from most vendors are are based on Pentium 4/D (soon Conroe) CPUs with 1 socket.

So the question is will Apple replace the PowerMac G5 with a true workstation class system, or will they split the PowerMac into a desktop tower and workstation with the former using Conroe and the later using Woodcrest, or will they use Conroe only (and for the moment not have a quad core system), etc.

Historically I have stated that Apple will use Conroe in a PowerMac replacement and wait for Kentsfield to bring back the quad (doing that would give them great performance and price point)... but looking at the timing of things now (and Intel price drops) I am starting to believe either Apple will go all Woodcrest for the PowerMac (truly make it a workstation class system) or go all Woodcrest for a workstation Mac and bring out a lower end tower that uses Conroe.

Evangelion said:

A follow-up question: why the obsession with Photoshop, After Effects and Illustrator? There are other apps out there as well. Why does it seem that about 105% of Mac-users are Photoshop-users as well (I bet that PhotoShop-users are in fact in the minority)? Everything related to Apple, OS X and Macs seem to boil down to "but what about PhotoShop?". Well, what about it?

You are worried about the fact that Adobe's apps are not yet Universal? Fine, then don't buy a MacIntel. Problem solved.

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wow, you just don't get it.

I am a freelance motion graphics designer. I work on many companies in L.A. and NY. After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator are their core applications. Plus many print designers relly on Photoshop and Illustrator. Those people will not jump on the Pro Mac as long as the Adobe apps are not universal.
Second, you still not mentioned what apps would substitute the Adobe trio mentioned above. So my answer to that is none.

If you are mainly a video editor, maybe it would be OK to upgrade because FCP will be universal, but I am talking about a major segment on the industry that solely relly on Adobe. This people will not jump on the bandwagon right away. This people wil not change and learn a new app just because the latest Mac is not suited for their needs. They will wait few more months.

So if you think Adobe apps can be substitute with something else on the professiopnal level, then you definately have no clue of what are you talking about.

sbarton said:

Smallish mid-tower case
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz or better
1GB RAM
250GB SATA 3.0 HD
1-PCIe x16 Slot
1-Standard PCI Slot
6-USB 2.0 ports (One in front)
1- Firewire 800 port (in front)
Dual Layer DVD
Onboard 10/100/1000 (I don't care if its wireless, but a wireless opition would be nice but not necessary)
Graphics Card should be x1600XT or better with 256mb RAM

I want it at or less than $1199.00

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4 ram slots so I can get 2 gig cheap or 4 gig if I want it.

2 x FW 400s well.

BT/AX standard of course.

Frontrow IR port.

Optical audio in/out.

User replacable Ram, HDD, Graphics card(?).

greenstork said:

I think his point was that most tech geeks are freaking out about the revolutionary core 2 architecture, be it in the conroe, woodcrest or merom. For people to view conroe as a lesser chip in some way smacks of mac snobbery and I tend to agree with him.

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Thank You my Good Man. This is the Biggest Leap since 486 to P6 or 6800 to PowerPC and the Mac Snobs are not even appreciative about it , while the Intelligent folk at the tech forums who actually understand hardware are elated. This is why i say they deserved to be suck with PowerPC maybe another 5yrs with IBM/Freescale will make them more greatful to Intel for bailing them out.

Freakin Core 2 is 80% redesigned from Core 1 and this was done is very short time, Inessence they were able to Beat AMD clock 4 clock while maintaining the insane clock scalibility of Netbust and at a lower wattage output , talk about having your cake and eating it too. It truly is a great technical achievement. Those guy at Intel Israel are geniuses.

jiggie2g said:

Thank You my Good Man. This is the Biggest Leap since 486 to P6 or 6800 to PowerPC and the Mac Snobs are not even appreciative about it , while the Intellighent folk at the tech forums who actually understand hardware are in elated.

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go go Mr. Stereotype

macidiot said:

And finally... you have a black macbook pro? I'm impressed. So did you use Krylon?

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Dude, check it out... http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/select_MacBookPro.aspx
A black Macbook Pro looks cool, right.

The upcomming WWDC has everything to be the coolest, most agressive WWDC ever. If Apple is up to it, we are set to see the strongest Apple line up ever. And thats saying a bit, since the current lineup is already mighty all by itself

Mikael said:

Exactly. Numerous people have tried to explain that Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest basically are the same CPU, yet few people seem to have understood it yet. The differences between the parts are almost exclusively external (or atleast not related to the execution core), like socket and FSB frequency. The core architecture has even been said by Intel reps to be the same. The only reason for a Woodcrest CPU to perform better than a Conroe (the non-Extreme edition) would be because of the slightly faster FSB. This advantage could soon be negated by the use of FB-DIMMs.

So, why get so worked up over this?

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Even if the internal architecture of the two chips is the same, a Dual 3.0ghz Woodcrest configuration is still going to outperform a Single 2.66ghz Conroe. While Conroe might be very good, it's not the best, which is what pro customer's expect from Apple's highest-end workstation offering.

sbarton said:

Smallish mid-tower case
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz or better
1GB RAM
250GB SATA 3.0 HD
1-PCIe x16 Slot
1-Standard PCI Slot
6-USB 2.0 ports (One in front)
1- Firewire 800 port (in front)
Dual Layer DVD
Onboard 10/100/1000 (I don't care if its wireless, but a wireless opition would be nice but not necessary)
Graphics Card should be x1600XT or better with 256mb RAM

I want it at or less than $1199.00

Now gimmie

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Fine. tell me where we can get everything but the processor for $200 and we have a deal. Conroe doesn't have anything above 2.66 that isn't an extreme edition. So your next stop is the X6800 2.93GHz Extreme Edition- $999 per chip.

we are not saying conroe is crap it just is not suitable for a mac pro.

Hector said:

we are not saying conroe is crap it just is not suitable for a mac pro.

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My point exactly...Mac Snobbery at it's finest.

In A Word NO

sigamy said:

man, my head is spinning...Yonah, Mermon, Woodcrest, Core Duo 2 (isn't that redundant?)

Don't you just long for the good old days when we'd get one G4 processor for 18 months?

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In A Word NO. There is nothing complicated about understanding Intel's Processor line. Only lazy consumers unwilling to read anything.

All the details have been spoon fed to us for months by generous meembers here. I see no excuse for not know the differences by now and why what belongs where.

Multimedia said:

In A Word NO. There is nothing complicated about understanding Intel's Processor line. Only lazy consumers unwilling to read anything.

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Yes Mulitmedia these are the same morons with too much money and too little sense , These are the same people who are saying ..ohhh why can't Conroe go into an iMac , but i want a Woodcrest , hey I don't care if Merom is Pin compatible can't they go with Conroe for it's better perfromance ..lol

What a bunch of whiny daddy's boys , no sense at all they just obey the all mighty Stevie Jobs when he lies about how the new MacPro is THE FASTEST PEECEE IN THE WORRRRLD

manic said:

The upcomming WWDC has everything to be the coolest, most agressive WWDC ever.

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Glad I get to make it this year!

(missed 2005)

alexdrinan said:

Even if the internal architecture of the two chips is the same, a Dual 3.0ghz Woodcrest configuration is still going to outperform a Single 2.66ghz Conroe. While Conroe might be very good, it's not the best, which is what pro customer's expect from Apple's highest-end workstation offering.

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I thought it was pretty obvious that I was talking about a potential single CPU Mac Pro. Woodcrest would obviously have to be used in a dual CPU machine. Also, I'd expect that lower speed grades would be offered too, which would make a 2.66GHz Conroe a nice pick. Or is only the absolutely highest clocked version of the CPU good enough to satisfy the demanding professional Mac users?

Sorry, just tired of the so called professionals that can't stop whining about how anything other than the best is an insult... It's annoying and it gets old fast.

stunna said:

Maybe Apple will give you a choice.

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That's what I was going to say. Maybe Apple will turn more like Dell's website with a 'plethora' of options. So there might be a bunch of possible configurations?

Mikael said:

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was talking about a potential single CPU Mac Pro. Woodcrest would obviously have to be used in a dual CPU machine. Also, I'd expect that lower speed grades would be offered too, which would make a 2.66GHz Conroe a nice pick. Or is only the absolutely highest clocked version of the CPU good enough to satisfy the demanding professional Mac users?

Sorry, just tired of the so called professionals that can't stop whining about how anything other than the best is an insult... It's annoying and it gets old fast.

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Another Brave Soul excapes the Mac Matrix created by Steve "The Architect" Jobs. Enough with this Snobbery nonsense , The PowerPC Warz are over move on. you guy are now in the same boat was the windows folk. No more Think Different, Think Alike.

Hector said:

we are not saying conroe is crap it just is not suitable for a mac pro.

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This thread is getting too funny. Apple has been so far behind on power these past few years and now we get the chance to use Conroe, and suddenly that's not good enough for the Mac snobs. Conroe is an extremely fast chip (especially compared to G5), so I don't get why some people think it's a bad choice for the pro-line up. Sure, it can't do smp, but not everyone needs or want to pay for quad processing.

So, aside from the ability to do multiple processing, what advantages does Woodcrest have that make it mandatory to go in the pro-line? How much "faster" is it going to be over the Conroe? It's my understanding that they are identical in that respect.

Careful On The Name Calling

jiggie2g said:

Yes Mulitmedia these are the same morons with too much money and too little sense , These are the same people who are saying ..ohhh why can't Conroe go into an iMac , but i want a Woodcrest , hey I don't care if Merom is Pin compatible can't they go with Conroe for it's better perfromance ..lol

What a bunch of whiny daddy's boys , no sense at all they just obey the all mighty Stevie Jobs when he lies about how the new MacPro is THE FASTEST PEECEE IN THE WORRRRLD

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Careful. You can get banned for calling anyone here a naughty name. They will go whining to the moderators and a moderator who might not like you in the first place will lock you out of the process. So I don't disrespect anyone in writing here any more. Everyone here is beautiful and fun to be with.