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Haven't I Answered This One Already?
- Thread starter Eidorian
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Don't forget all those leaked keynotes that still have a Mac Pro update.pure speculation. something mac fans obviously like.
It's a faaaake!
I don't like making new threads and this is relevant.
How do you move a file to another folder? to Why cant I cut?
I don't like getting heat for linking back to an old thread where something has already been answered. There are a lot of old posts where we've had good discussion over the how and why of Macs. Staff, please help with some advice.
How do you move a file to another folder? to Why cant I cut?
I don't like getting heat for linking back to an old thread where something has already been answered. There are a lot of old posts where we've had good discussion over the how and why of Macs. Staff, please help with some advice.
Wholeheartedly agree.. What the "search" nazi's fail to mention is that while MR is one of the best websites out there, it's search feature is, well, uh, a little weak-to say the least.. I also don't quite see the reasoning behind answering some questions in such a terse, often times downright rude, manner..It's a "DISCUSSION" forum for goodness sakes- let people discuss.. Noones forcing you to click on that thread that we all know darn well contains a question that you've heard the answer to 3 times this week alone.. Honestly, some people open that thread up for no other reason than to admonish the OP for not being proficient in their MR site searches..That's severely weak and is a much bigger threat to an online community than a few redundant topics..
Sorry, but there are real live people out there that don't feel that being an expert with the MR search feature is a very lofty, nor worthy goal.. Hard to believe, I know, but it's really true..;-)
If the rudeness chases enough people away they're will be noone to post the same questions over & over and before long we'll all be dying to read "how do I play AVI files on my mac?" again..lol.. a little extreme , I know, but I really can't see the logic in complaining about people starting a discussion in a public discussion forum..
Unfortunately, this is one of those things that really seems to burn some peoples butts- as I'm sure my opinion on the matter will as well..;-) so I doubt we'll "all just get along" on this one any time soon..
When I do that I say something like "it isn't obvious, but the question has already been answered in <<link>>"
My view: A forum full of similar threads because no-one has bothered searching is a turn-off to many people, and ultimately degrades the entire board experience, driving people elsewhere.
I think the problem has gone away slightly since the addition of the 'search for your topic' to the New Thread but it's created another one.
The people who do search, find an old thread and add their new request to the bottom of it. It means you can have threads from 2005 relating to Panther and Tiger where the fixes don't apply to Leopard or there's an easier way to do it now.
Not to mention that there are quite a few members here who read the first post (from 2005 although perhaps not noticing the date) and hit reply not realising that the OP was helped long long ago and the new user is way down the bottom. In that case, the new poster would have been better starting a new thread but saying that they'd looked in thread A.
I tend to work on the principle that if I KNOW there's another thread on this on the front page of the forum the user is in, then I'll ignore it or post a comment on reading the rest of the page. If there's been a thread that I might recall but which I know is several days/weeks old, then I'll be more helpful.
The people who do search, find an old thread and add their new request to the bottom of it. It means you can have threads from 2005 relating to Panther and Tiger where the fixes don't apply to Leopard or there's an easier way to do it now.
Not to mention that there are quite a few members here who read the first post (from 2005 although perhaps not noticing the date) and hit reply not realising that the OP was helped long long ago and the new user is way down the bottom. In that case, the new poster would have been better starting a new thread but saying that they'd looked in thread A.
I tend to work on the principle that if I KNOW there's another thread on this on the front page of the forum the user is in, then I'll ignore it or post a comment on reading the rest of the page. If there's been a thread that I might recall but which I know is several days/weeks old, then I'll be more helpful.
There is a solution to that, make the search from the new topic page be a secret advanced search that only goes back 3 months say, which would solve both problems.
So the question becomes, do you prefer a board full of the same, long time (now cranky and set in their ways) people, or one that is more friendly to newcomers?
Long term members stay because they like the DISCUSSIONS. Not because they like the search features.
Long term members leave because they're tired of the same discussions. And in many cases, discussions is far too grand a word for many of these topics. That's why the Guides were created.
Only those that are too elitist to "allow" discussions to take place that they aren't interested in. Having new people discuss stuff you already understand doesn't hurt you in any way. There are thousands of threads here every day. Skip the ones of no interest to you. Or change the name to "elitestmacrumors.com" (Don't come here unless you want to talk about what I want to talk about). Now THAT's inviting.
You're going to have a very small and (IMO) boring group if you try to control what can be discussed and get nasty with people for discussing something you don't want them too. It's called a clique. Nobody else can get in. Only the "in" crowd is "allowed" to participate.
And yes, it already does exist here to some extent. I know from experience (directly from you personally I might add) that newcomers are not easily accepted.
Fortunately, the masses of relative newcomers that still want to help and discuss all levels of topics overwhelm the cranky old-timers that want to control everything. Otherwise, new people wouldn't come back twice.
I don't believe you understand what I'm referring to and with all due respect, I have a lengthier and more varied experience of this forum than you, and have seen many experienced and frankly, more useful forum members leave because of the sheer volume of mind-numbing repetitious threads.
It's not about elitism at all and it's not about being interested in a topic. It's about ensuring that there is range of discussion suitable for all members, not just those who do little research and ask the same thing over and over again.
That is precisely why the Guides were created; to signpost and reference good content, so that a wider variety of topics could have their place as threads.
Furthermore, personal comments directed at other forum members are hardly likely to sway any minds. I don't even know who you are or what you're referring to... I'm not responsible for any chips that people may have on their shoulders. I've welcomed more new people to this forum than you could ever imagine. If people are not met with a welcome from anyone here, it would behoove them to examine their own behaviour.
The problem is that sometimes content that should be added to the guides isn't maybe an ideas thread for the guides would be useful.
Sorry, could you please rephrase that? The specific content of the Guides isn't what I'm referring to, it's the existence of them that was an attempt to solve the substantial number of complaints from people who felt that we needed something a little more detailed and signposted than stickies, to cope with the many repeated questions that often occur.
It's not about censorship for some imaginary elite, it's about organising content so that people can get the answers they need. The Guides, stickies and other resource threads serve a wider need for large parts of the community.
Sorry, your comment and the rest of this thread reminded me that the guides can be missing some good articles, possibly a suggestions thread might be worthwhile, I was just throwing the idea up, though its a bit off topic I suppose
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I have no desire in getting into a pissing match. Suffice it to say that in my personal experience and opinion newcomers are looked down upon by a group of "elite". This thread and your posts in it only go to further prove my point. Whether you choose to benefit from that information is up to you.
Being rude to newcomers (and posting nothing more than a link to another thread that may be 1000 posts long and their answer is buried in it somewhere is rude) is elitist and does not make them feel welcome or desirous to hang around.
They prove nothing and your experience of this forum is not the experience of many others. If you have questions or complaints relating to this site's moderation or any of its members, please use the Contact Us form, however before you do so, it may be prudent to revise this section of the Forum Rules beforehand. Thanks.
This thread has wandered OT a little - perhaps a split around post 34 to discuss cliqueishness yet again - and let this one remain about how we deal with repeating threads.
I believe it's the questions with common factual answers that led to the original post as opposed to discussion topics where answers are more likely to be opinion.
I believe it's the questions with common factual answers that led to the original post as opposed to discussion topics where answers are more likely to be opinion.
Saltyzoo, this issue has been worked over before, I shared similar perspective, the general conclusion I arrive is that this is a private forum, how it is run is up to the moderators and the owner discretion. No point getting upset, just let them be.
As for repeated post, I guess members who are tired of answering the same question just ignore the thread, let others who are willing to answer post. If there's no answer to the thread, the OP would then be forced to come up with more creative ways to get their answers instead.
Most of the New Threads on this board are created by new users, and most never do a search on Google or these boards. Granted this board does not have the best search engine, if you use the correct keywords you can find the answer you're looking for. That being said, the same statement can be posted regarding most informational message boards.
If you don't have the urge to post an answer someone else will. That's one great thing about this board, there is always someone to answer a question.
If you don't have the urge to post an answer someone else will. That's one great thing about this board, there is always someone to answer a question.
Yeah I try to add some background fluff when linking back. I think it's best to link to the thread and maybe the post with the best answer.
This is my point. Thank you Blue Velvet.Blue Velvet said:
I've made guides and I've made my own little technical threads. I can't tell you how many times I've seen new posts about quad core iMacs or laptops. I'm pretty much the resident expert on that subject. I can at least count seven threads on the subject that I've posted in or even started. I'm sure there are countless more.
At this point you're probably thinking I should make a Guide.
Like I've said before, I've found myself not even responding to a new thread that I've answered and slowly watching it fall off of page 1.
I'm not upset at about it at all. Just thought I'd try to point it out for those that might have an open mind.
There are far too many newcomers that keep the site interesting for the rest of us. Without shutting down new registrations there's no stopping us.
I think this is a very important problem.
I noticed a change in myself a while back. 3 months ago I would respond to threads like "macbook or macbook pro?" or "iWork or Office" with in-depth answers that examined multiple factors and that would help the OP come as close as possible to making a decision.
However, with so many of these threads being created everyday, I just find myself less and less interested. Once in a blue moon I'll respond to one of those threads, but only if I feel the OP's situation is different. I still try to give better answers, as I think quality > quantity.
However, I don't see a way around it. It's not of those things you can "mod" away. It's about group behavior and that dynamic is always hard to deal with. Make a sticky? It'll be ignored. Link a guide in the Forum Head? It'll go unnoticed.
The only solution I see is for those of us (like myself) who are tired of the same threads is to ignore those same old threads and try to find new ones. Granted that's a tough job, but surely not impossible?
Who's cranky? When you have a good question, there are dozens of long time forum members willing to help, and they're very nice about it.
Only one or two veteran forum members break down and post a list of links to other threads. Don't define the rule with its exceptions.
I hardly think "Macbook Pro or Macbook" represents a discussion.
This isn't about elitism at all. I haven't been here very long and I feel this way sometimes. It's an issue regarding the quality of the forums.
In a perfect world, you'd be correct. However, what really happens is that good questions and threads become buried by the onslaught of repetitious threads. That does represent a problem.
That's what people do. Then, after a while they simply decide the forum isn't worth their time anymore, so they retire and MR loses a valuable expert.
Again, it's not about elitism, it's about forum quality.
As for inviting, I think MR is very inviting. It offers free information, help, and guides. Obviously this place continues to be an attraction for dozens of new people everyday since membership continues to balloon.
As opposed to the very large and boring group we have at the moment?
Nonetheless, I don't think anyone here is advocating strict control of new threads (to do so would require countless mod-hours).
Again, MR will not do this. It isn't the goal of the forum to exclude or control.
It's impossible for every single forum member to be controlled, but most of us try to welcome new comers. However, if you begin your stay by being confrontational, people aren't going to respond nicely.
I don't know what you're imagining, but there's only one cranky old-timer that really matters.
I think new people do stay, as long as they learn how to respect the forum, it's rules, and their fellow posters. If we can't get those three basic things out of new members, wouldn't their presence be a net loss for the forums?
I think this is a nice summary for where we are at the moment, so I'll use your post to spring board to the end of my post
:I think the matter of repetitious threads will continue to arise and be a more pronounced problem in the future. As switchers from Windows come to these boards for advice, their first inclination will be to start a thread, not realizing that their question has been answered dozens upon hundreds of times before.
A possible solution I see is if new members receive a stock PM reminding them of the search function, and linking them to the FAQ and popular guides (macbook/pro/air, iWork, Office, etc). PMs are harder to ignore (though I agree that we'll likely still have a high rate of resistance
) but even if 50% of new members pay attention to the PM and use its links, that will cut down dramatically on new threads that are of standard issue.Edit:
There are far too many newcomers that keep the site interesting for the rest of us. Without shutting down new registrations there's no stopping us.
Stopping you how? What exactly is being stopped?
I don't think anyone here is advancing an "us versus them" mentality.
To recap: Some believe The Blind Men and the Elephant offers sage advice, while others feel the The Blind Elephants and the Man is more appropriate parable simply because it offers "closure." In the lesser-known story the first elephant feels the man with his leg, and says that the man is flat. The other elephants each take their turns touching the man and in the end, all agree.