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RazorWriter

macrumors member
Apr 19, 2004
47
15
4870 for $128 right now

Hey everybody, Slickdeals has a coupon code that can get you the XFX 4870 1GB card for $128 right now. (if they don't sell out by the time you get there)

Only thing is, I just discovered another thread here on the Radeon 4890 which seems to require less work to flash, etc for OS X, and which runs quiter and cooler anyway. I'm wondering whether the $100 or so difference between the two cards makes it worth getting the upgraded one. Anyone want to chime in with their opinion?
 

MacVidCards

Suspended
Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
1,056
Hollywood, CA
True, but if you want to back up a copy of your original ROM (something I would highly recommend), you do need both cards in the computer at the same time.

Scurrilous nonsense.

Please think BEFORE you post.

Two cards aren't needed for any reason at all if you choose DOS / Windows as your startup disk BEFORE you shut down and insert 4870.
 

richpjr

macrumors 68040
May 9, 2006
3,504
2,253
Scurrilous nonsense.

Please think BEFORE you post.

Two cards aren't needed for any reason at all if you choose DOS / Windows as your startup disk BEFORE you shut down and insert 4870.

Since I just followed the recommendation in the guide that many people have successfully used, I did it. You may indeed be right in your pompous reply that it isn't necessary, but it worked.
 

MacVidCards

Suspended
Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
1,056
Hollywood, CA
Since I just followed the recommendation in the guide that many people have successfully used, I did it. You may indeed be right in your pompous reply that it isn't necessary, but it worked.

Not only is a seond card completely 100% unnecessary, by using an ATi anything, you greatly increase the odds of incorrectly saving from or flashing to wrong card.

If your cat "meows" whilst you flash and it works, that doesn't mean everyone else needs to have a cat "meow" when they flash theirs.

When I corrected your earlier post, you came back and corrected me in my own thread with completely erroneous information, the height of being "pompous".

The fact remains that we are flashing these cards in either WINDOWS or DOS. By definition, these PC cards we are flashing run just fine there. It is irresponsible to give advice that actually INCREASES the odds of failure.

When a Mac Pro starts up in Wndows or DOS, it is 100% a PC as far as hardware is concerned. If you wish to post wild, unfounded guesswork on video card flashing, please do it elsewhere.
 

richpjr

macrumors 68040
May 9, 2006
3,504
2,253
Not only is a seond card completely 100% unnecessary, by using an ATi anything, you greatly increase the odds of incorrectly saving from or flashing to wrong card.

If your cat "meows" whilst you flash and it works, that doesn't mean everyone else needs to have a cat "meow" when they flash theirs.

When I corrected your earlier post, you came back and corrected me in my own thread with completely erroneous information, the height of being "pompous".

The fact remains that we are flashing these cards in either WINDOWS or DOS. By definition, these PC cards we are flashing run just fine there. It is irresponsible to give advice that actually INCREASES the odds of failure.

When a Mac Pro starts up in Wndows or DOS, it is 100% a PC as far as hardware is concerned. If you wish to post wild, unfounded guesswork on video card flashing, please do it elsewhere.

Don't be a tool. To reiterate my point - I followed a guide many other people pointed to that had the extra step in it. It worked, but as you pointed out, one of the steps is not needed. We all appreciate your help, but a modicum of politeness would be nice.
 

Ti22

macrumors newbie
Jun 11, 2009
8
0
Not only is a seond card completely 100% unnecessary, by using an ATi anything, you greatly increase the odds of incorrectly saving from or flashing to wrong card.

If your cat "meows" whilst you flash and it works, that doesn't mean everyone else needs to have a cat "meow" when they flash theirs.

When I corrected your earlier post, you came back and corrected me in my own thread with completely erroneous information, the height of being "pompous".

The fact remains that we are flashing these cards in either WINDOWS or DOS. By definition, these PC cards we are flashing run just fine there. It is irresponsible to give advice that actually INCREASES the odds of failure.

When a Mac Pro starts up in Wndows or DOS, it is 100% a PC as far as hardware is concerned. If you wish to post wild, unfounded guesswork on video card flashing, please do it elsewhere.

there are many ways to skin a cat, "meow".
 

TheStrudel

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2008
1,134
1
A little respect for Rominator, please...he and many others have worked hard to get us these solutions.
 

Ti22

macrumors newbie
Jun 11, 2009
8
0
A little respect for Rominator, please...he and many others have worked hard to get us these solutions.

my bad, i didn't mean any disrespect.

I just couldn't resist since he used the cat metaphore to prove his point, I actually agree with the rominator's method more, and I will actually be using his method to flash my card (ie using jsut the 4870 in the system)
 

super_kev

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
356
2
USofA
How to have a cooler 4870

Not only is a seond card completely 100% unnecessary, by using an ATi anything, you greatly increase the odds of incorrectly saving from or flashing to wrong card.

I agree. Having a second card (X1900 in my case) also made it more of a headache for me in that my X1900 has a Thermalright HR-03 GT cooler on it, leaving no room for any other PCI cards, necessitating the need for the GT to be replaced with the stock cooler, making an extra power cable to pull power from the optical bay, and adding quite a bit of time to the whole flashing process.

I had one big issue I wanted to settle before I ran the 4870 card on the OS X side of my Mac Pro, and that was cooling. These 48xx cards run HOT. Most temperature reports on many forums that I visited mentioned that the 4870 ran 70C+, at idle. ATI reduced the fan speed to keep it quiet, but at the expense of added heat. While a modern GPU was made to run fine at higher temperatures such as 80-100C (176-212F), all that heat has to go somewhere. A good part of it goes out the back of the computer, but some of it is transferred down the card into the motherboard, and in a Mac Pro, also radiates upward towards the hard drive trays.

I had no knowledge of how hot the 4870 would run in a MP. After flashing my XFX 4870 (ZDFC model) via swissmann's tutorial, I fired up the Catalyst Control Center in Boot Camp to check on the temp, which was 71C. Granted, I have four hard drives, but the factory ATI 4870 fan control keeps the card cool in passive mode (no fan) until the GPU reaches 58C, and then it slowly ramps the fan up to 100% at 101C. :eek: Heat is the enemy of electronics, and who wants a graphics card that idles at 160F in their MP? Definitely not me.

Like the great poet, I had two choices:
1) Transfer my HR-03 GT from the dead X1900, as well as purchase a Thermalright HR-09 S Type 2 MOSFET cooler for the VPMs (which put out a tremendous amount of heat), as the HR-03 GT cools the GPU and RAM chips only. This would mean I would loose all my extra PCI slots again (no big deal as I have no other PCI cards), would be out more $, and would have to wait 5-6 days until I received the VPM heat sink.

2) Modify the BIOS to ramp up the fan speed at lower temperatures. No aftermarket coolers, no waiting, and definitely the road less traveled. You can guess which one I set out to do. ;)

How to have a cooler ATI 4870
If you are thinking about flashing a 4870, read this. If you have already flashed a 4870, you will still want to modify your ROM.

I've never flashed until today. So, consider me a "novice". :p The following “tutorial” has more background information than most step-by-step tutorials, but I felt that this is very important and necessitates a thorough explanation. If you want to skip all the reading, you can find two modified ROMs for the XFX 4870 ZDFC series cards here:

-55C ROM (recommended); card will run at approximately 57C (135F), fan speed 28% at idle, with an ambient temp of 80F (according to iStat). Under full load it runs at 61-62C (142-144F) at 38%. This is the ROM I am using.
-50C ROM (slightly cooler ROM); card will run at approximately 53C (127F), fan speed 30% at idle. There’s an audible difference between fan speeds of 28% & 30%, but choose this ROM if you want the card to run a little cooler with a more aggressive fan speed.

I followed swissmann's tutorial, except for using a second video card. Install the 4870 drivers (make sure you choose to do a "Custom Install" and uncheck the natit file, as it only needed on Hackintoshes), select Windows as the startup disk, and shut down the MP. Take out your current gfx card (X1900 in my case), plug in the 4870, and restart. After inserting the XFX driver disc and installing the drivers, reboot into Windows to get support for the 4870. DO NOT burn your boot CD yet.

Find the optimal temperature for your configuration
Open the Catalyst Control Center (CCC), select "Advanced" mode, then go to the "ATI Overdrive" tab, and click the unlock box so that you can see the GPU temp and adjust the clock and fan speeds.

attachment.php


You will need to check the "Enable ATI Overdrive" and "Enable Manual Fan Control" checkboxes in order for the fan speed to be applied. The CCC doesn’t modify your card; it is a system-level override that changes the card’s parameters and works only when CCC is running. (Note: The default GPU and Memory clocks are 775MHz & 950MHz, respectively. Somehow my memory clock was moved to 900MHz for the screenshot.)

Note: Enabling manual fan control will override the input from the graphics card BIOS and tell the fan to stay at a specific speed. If you set your fan speed too low (keep it at the baseline 20% for example) and load the card you could eventually run the risk of the card overheating due to the fan staying at a constant speed and not ramping up.

I found that with my configuration, a minimum of 30% was needed to keep the card in the 54C range. This is with all four drive bays full. Noise increases exponentially, and you can hear the difference between a small increase in fan speed. Try setting the fan at 100%, and you will see dust blowing from behind your MP that you never knew was there... the fan can move an incredible amount of air at a tremendous amount of noise.

Modify the stock ROM
Download Radeon BIOS Editor (RBE). This software is used to modify the BIOS of your graphics card. Once you have made your Mac ROM according to pipomolo42’s instructions (or use rhildinger’s ROM for a XFX 4870 ZDFC card), then load this ROM into RBE.

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Open RBE and click on Fan settings.

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Click on Load BIOS.

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Here are the fan parameters for stock 4870 ATI reference design ROM. RBE has extensive documentation, so we won’t get into everything here. Two values are of interest to us; Tmin, and Tmax. Tmin is the temperature (in Celcius) at which the fan is switched on 1%. For the stock ROM, we see that Tmin is 58C (136F). The fan will not even reach 30% until at least 71C (160F). Tmax is the temperature at which the fan is at 100%. A few other notable parameters include Duty cycle min and Tmin hysteresis (but don't change these). Duty cycle min is the minimum speed at which the fan will turn on. If this were to be set to 10%, the baseline (horizontal green line on the left side of the graph) would change to 10%. Initially I thought this meant that the fan would be at a constant 10% (and hence no passive cooling mode) until the parameters say otherwise. However, the fan is off until a certain temperature (Tmin), at which point the fan will immediately power on at 10% (no 0-10% ramp) and go up from there, so I decided to leave this value set at 0%. Tmin hysteresis is the sensitivity threshold of the fan. Default is 4C, which means that the fan speed won’t change until there is a 4C change in threshold. Hysteresis adjusts the amount that the fan speed varies; you don’t want the speed (and thus the noise) to change constantly, otherwise it will drive you nuts. Leave hysteresis at 4, the default.

attachment.php


From CCC, I picked 30% as a good reference noise level for the fan, and the card temp was 53C at that speed. For the modified 55C ROM, the Tmin value was adjusted to 38C so that fan speed would be 30% at 57C. This would mean that the fan would run a couple % lower at 54-55C, which would lower the noise by a noticeable amount. Also notice that the slope changed to 25 from 37 on the stock ROM, which yields a more gradual increase in fan speed.

attachment.php


Save the modified ROM (add the .rom extension at the end); in our case the name is "macxfx55.rom" and add it to your ISO image.

I have spent 5-6 hours (plus a couple more writing this tutorial) creating 15+ ROMs with various Tmin, Tmax, hysteresis, etc. settings, flashing them, and then measuring temps in Windows so that I could produce the best noise-to-temperature configuration that would keep your card cool, but yet not be that noticeable in the MP. My 4870 card has a good 20 flashes on it, and it’s holding up fine. ;) The ROMs in the above save dialog box are only a few of what I created over this whole process, so ignore them.

Flash the modified ROM
Now that you have made your modified ROM, continue the steps in swissmann’s tutorial and burn a CD with your stock card ROM, unmodified Mac ROM, and temperature-modified ROM(s). This way you will only need to burn one CD, and you’ll have several ROMs to choose from when flashing. Select the burned CD as your startup disk via the Boot Camp control panel and continue on to swissmann’s tutorial to burn your modified ROM (change the ROM file name as appropriate) so that your card will work in OS X.

Congratulations, you now have a relatively quiet & cooler 4870 that won’t require you to keep the A/C on in your house.
 

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super_kev

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
356
2
USofA
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jaberwocky

macrumors member
Mar 16, 2009
43
0
Europe
@super_kev

This higher temperatures seems to be a little disadvantage, caused by the ATI-Stock design (digital voltage regulators) on some cards.

Other cards with oem design, like my Sapphire, runs during idle with lower temperatures without any modification (52° C), also four disk drives in my Mac Pro.
The default fan settings are also different, the fan on my card is running with 19% - even on idle.
This Manufactors switches back to analog power regulators (you will see in GPU-Z no counts forVDDC).

This issue have been discussed a lot by PC-Users (3/4 year back :) )

Bye, Jaberwocky
 

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super_kev

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
356
2
USofA
I knew different brands would have different temps, but I didn't know that some of the cards have analog PWMs, I thought they were all digital. Maybe would should make a list of gfx cards that have analog or digital PWMs? It seems that quite a few people have gone with the XFX, so I thought that it was worth the mention, then people could check their card temps and modify accordingly. ;)
 

BEIGE

macrumors member
Oct 10, 2008
70
0
I've had my 4870 overheat twice so I don't recommend changing the fan settings -get a better fan.
 

pknz

macrumors 68020
Mar 22, 2005
2,478
1
NZ
Seems many people are using at XFX or Sapphire cards, if I bought a Sapphire card do I need the specific Sapphire ROM that is floating around here? (And vice versa for the XFX)?
 

dusanv

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2006
351
0
Thanks for the tutorial super_kev! I didn't know about that ROM editing tool.

BTW, I reapplied the thermal paste on the XFX 4870 (as I always do with Radeon cards, my x1900XT is still alive and well). It's running a cooler just due to that. I used Arctic Cooling MX-2. I should have taken some measurements before and after on constant fan speed under load and idle but I didn't :/
 

super_kev

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
356
2
USofA
I've had my 4870 overheat twice so I don't recommend changing the fan settings -get a better fan.

If your card is an ATI reference design, my bet is that it just ran too hot due to the fan not programmed to come on earlier. The stock fan on my XFX (reference series design) keeps the card fairly cool once you modify the ROM and boost the fan speed.

Seems many people are using at XFX or Sapphire cards, if I bought a Sapphire card do I need the specific Sapphire ROM that is floating around here? (And vice versa for the XFX)?

Depends on what model you buy, as they could have a different BIOS. If you purchase a model that doesn't have a ROM posted here, just make your own using the instructions from pipomolo42.
 

vlj9r

macrumors member
Feb 18, 2007
51
0
Unfortunately no, motherboard connector is much smaller, in the pic below, the left is mac motherboard plug, to the right, PCIe 1.0 6 pin. :

pcie.jpg


It was one of those situations - team at Apple working on standards, let's get some regular motherboards from Foxcon, chips from Intel, cards from ATI, and then some old time bozo woke up at the back of the meeting - you know the kind - the ex-SGI/ex-Sun/old Apple Manager For Proprietary Development, some dude who twiddled his thumbs for the past few years, pushed out of main lab into mop closet in basement. And he probably said "and let's make connectors on motherboard in this fantastic tiny format I saw at Taiwanese Space Agency last year, as used in their spy camera kite craft".
I found connectors, but can't find matching 3mm pitch pins in small quantity retail anywhere. I don't want to buy few thousands of them, just want to roll two cables. :)
I'm actually peed off with cables situation to the point I'm trying to find how much it would cost to get some cable manufacturer to make few hundred of those. Surely with such short supply of original cards and lack of european stock of cables for third party solution the situation is going to get out of hand in few weeks.

Did you tried http://www.alliedelec.com? They sell individual pieces.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
490
17
Chicagoland
I've had my 4870 overheat twice so I don't recommend changing the fan settings -get a better fan.
I have had 0 overheating issues with my XFX 1GB (no other video cards in the MP).

In windows the ATI Catalyst utility says it idles at 70C or so, but the internal temps in my MP haven't really moved any higher since I replaced my OEM 2600.

Here it is at idle, 75F ambient, fans bumped up maybe 200rpm over stock using SMCFancontrol.
 

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