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Apple Files Countersuit Against Nokia
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They're not paying twice. Chips don't include all royalties automatically.
For example, if you used a broadband chipset but didn't use 3G, you wouldn't have to pay for 3G.
Other fees are related to the overall device purpose. For example, anyone can buy the chips needed to make an iPod clone. But buying those chips does not give you the right to sell such a device. You'd have to license that from Apple. Same goes for building a GSM phone.
Yep. One of the patents Apple brought up, is apparently a brand new one concerning swiping to unlock.
It looks to me like Apple will have to pay for one or two of Nokia's patents. So Apple is using their own patents to try to get Nokia's fees reduced or eliminated.
Last time on Internet Forum Posters: Billy decided he wanted to become a lawyer but in the background his evil twin makes devious plans. Is Billy the father?
This is why no new small players can enter the market and innovate. These companies keep these ridiculous patents on hand ONLY so that when they infringe on someone else's ridiculous patent they can settle by doing a zero sum cross licensing deal. IBM has been doing this for years.
Also, in response to all the people who are going on about Apple "beating Nokia" in the smartphone market, and all this nonsense, Nokia is by far the largest smartphone maker in the world - 41% of all smartphones worldwide are Nokia devices, more than the next 4 competitors combined. Apple is number 3 with just 11% of the market.
http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=985912
Also, in response to all the people who are going on about Apple "beating Nokia" in the smartphone market, and all this nonsense, Nokia is by far the largest smartphone maker in the world - 41% of all smartphones worldwide are Nokia devices, more than the next 4 competitors combined. Apple is number 3 with just 11% of the market.
http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=985912
It's always nice to be remembered.
I hate grammar nazi-ing as much as the next guy, but can't we all calm down and do one, just one, reread of our angry posts before clicking?
This to me sounds like Apple didn't like Nokia not negotiating with them so they decided to find a way to sue back. Bottom line, everyone who stood up for Apples IP against Pystar needs to also apply that to Nokia vs Apple. IP is IP after all right 
Oh no no, this is about REAL and VERY IMPORTANT property rights and encouraging technological development and security in the market....blah blah blah.
You are absolutely correct. But hey, at least lawyers buy things with all the dough raked in from this kind of suit. That helps everybody!
They own some of the essential patents relating to it. When the standard is being thrashed out, each company declares which of their patents is essential to the standard working. The trick is to get as many of your patents into the standard as possible because then everyone else has to license them from you.
RIM seem to think so anyway. They've just licensed it again...
http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1275090
And Qualcomm and InterDigital lost to Nokia over similar, if not the exact, essential to GSM and 3G patent infringements recently. Nokia own thousands of patents relating to GSM/UMTS, many of which are essential to the standard.
I would guess Apple's defence is that they already think they've licensed GSM and 3G patents from InterDigital to the tune of $20 million + royalties or that their off the shelf chipset suppliers have paid up already.
This will just end up with patent cross-licensing with Apple getting a license to Nokia's GSM/UMTS radio technology patents and Nokia getting access to Apple's patents should there be any of merit. Somehow I think Nokia will end up giving up more relevant patents than Apple will though. Apple's patents are usually lame crap like UI gestures rather than actual technology. Apple will look pretty stupid trying to swap finger swipes for UMTS but I guess if that's what stupid people pay money for and Apple has a patent on it, Nokia's only option is to capitulate.
Typically when patents are put in a pool for licensing, there is an organization setup to handle the licensing.
For example, VoIP compression codecs. Many of these have patents from 30+ organizations, you don't deal directly with those organizations, you deal with a organization setup by the whole group to make it easy to get a license to use these patents, and the license only covers using said patents for the original combined purpose... meaning I wouldn't be able to get access to a patent used in G.729 and use it on something else without contacting and licensing from the original patent holder.
So... my question is two fold:
1) Why is Apple having to deal with Nokia directly on their GSM patents, is there not a group setup handling the patents like other standard patent pools?
2) When licensing a standard, there is almost always a set fee that is non-negotiable setup by the pool process, and there is NO reciprocal licensing. Having a separate entity handling those licensing agreements in such a way prevents a company from trying to do what Nokia is doing, leverage their ownership of patents to force a company to give up rights to patents that aren't automatically theirs.
Of course, there are plenty of examples of abuse. Take Rambus. Rambus was part of the working group that created DDR memory technologies. Part of the agreement was the companies involved must disclose all patents pending or issued that would conflict and provide them to the committee. Rambus didn't, then after DDR memory became standard, sued everyone for violating their agreement. Its a backdoor approach to suing.
It appears Apple is trying to license on the same terms as everyone else, and is completely willing to and should be able to. Nokia is trying to force Apple to give away the farm so Nokia doesn't step on Apple's innovations; so they try to block Apple from making a GSM product using industry standard license for a fee practices to force Apple to hand over their touch patents.
For example, VoIP compression codecs. Many of these have patents from 30+ organizations, you don't deal directly with those organizations, you deal with a organization setup by the whole group to make it easy to get a license to use these patents, and the license only covers using said patents for the original combined purpose... meaning I wouldn't be able to get access to a patent used in G.729 and use it on something else without contacting and licensing from the original patent holder.
So... my question is two fold:
1) Why is Apple having to deal with Nokia directly on their GSM patents, is there not a group setup handling the patents like other standard patent pools?
2) When licensing a standard, there is almost always a set fee that is non-negotiable setup by the pool process, and there is NO reciprocal licensing. Having a separate entity handling those licensing agreements in such a way prevents a company from trying to do what Nokia is doing, leverage their ownership of patents to force a company to give up rights to patents that aren't automatically theirs.
Of course, there are plenty of examples of abuse. Take Rambus. Rambus was part of the working group that created DDR memory technologies. Part of the agreement was the companies involved must disclose all patents pending or issued that would conflict and provide them to the committee. Rambus didn't, then after DDR memory became standard, sued everyone for violating their agreement. Its a backdoor approach to suing.
It appears Apple is trying to license on the same terms as everyone else, and is completely willing to and should be able to. Nokia is trying to force Apple to give away the farm so Nokia doesn't step on Apple's innovations; so they try to block Apple from making a GSM product using industry standard license for a fee practices to force Apple to hand over their touch patents.
There is one big factor in who has to capitulate:
Nokia can remove swipe-to-unlock, and perhaps figure out the way around some of the other Apple patents... and their phones would still work.
OTOH, Apple would have an almost impossible task figuring out an alternative to Nokia's GSM and WiFi patents, without losing communication functionality.
True. However, there seems to be enough people out there that are easily swayed by Apple's slick UI gloss rather than Nokia's features.
I mean, who'd buy a Nokia that didn't multitask or that had poor phone reception?
The above is the most crucial bit about this report. Basically, if a company invents and patents technology which is essential to establishing a standard (such as GSM), then that company is obliged to offer it on F/RAND [Fair, Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory] terms.
Apple is saying that Nokia is going beyond the commitment it gave and wants to charge Apple more than it charges others who make use of the same technology. In addition, Nokia is also asking for "unjustifiable royalties and reciprocal licenses to Apple's patents covering Apple's pioneering technology".
So Apple is quite right to not only defend itself but also go on a counter-attack because Nokia has violated Apple's IP.
Outcome;
Nokia have to withdraw from sale, or use, all of its touchscreen phones
Apple has to disable iPhones ability to send and recieve faxes
Nokia have to withdraw from sale, or use, all of its touchscreen phones
Apple has to disable iPhones ability to send and recieve faxes
So your analysis is - only Thomas Edison can make money off any phone-related patent? Brilliant.
And all along I thought A. G. Bell invented the phone.
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What is all of this swipe to unlock talk?
I thought that all nokia touchscreen phones had an unlock rocker switch on the side?
What is all of this swipe to unlock talk?
I thought that all nokia touchscreen phones had an unlock rocker switch on the side?
again apple trying to play the role of bully but still appeal to the masses as a small company. play by the same rules as everyone else and they shouldn't have an issue. For all we know they have been in talks with apple since inception and finally came to an impasse.
