Need help with iMac G3s, mac os 9 and mac os X tiger

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

Sorry, i hate posting nooby questions, but i've searched places and none have the answers i'm looking for, so i decided to post a thread.

Firstly, i'm quite new to macs and i have an iMac G3 tray load (266mHz), and a green G3 slot load (which i think is the 450mhz one as it is not working) and a few things have occured which i would like help with.

So.... i have have a slot G3 that when is booted, it comes up with a flashing question mark (it seems that its classic OS). Apparently, it requires the system install disc which i have, but when i try to boot from the disc, it still comes up with the flashing question mark. Am i right to conclude that the optical drive is broken then? If so, am i able to boot the disc using an external cd drive as it would be easier and cheaper to buy one of these than installing a new cd drive?

Also, i will be upgrading my tray loading G3 to a larger IDE hard drive. The orginal 6gb hard drive contains classic 9.2 and 10.3.9, but when i upgrade, i want to keep the os 9.2 and maybe install either panther or tiger, but i dont have the orginal classic OS disc that came with it, just the one for the slot loaing iMac. If i replace the hard drive with the larger one and partition it correctly, am i able to install classic OS using the disc from the slot loading iMac G3 and then panther or tiger without any complications? If not, what do i have to do as i would really like to keep the classic os too?

Finally, does anybody know from experience whether it would be wise to install Tiger onto a tray loading iMac G3 with 266 mHz processor, either 384mb or 512mb of RAM (i'm not sure whether to max it out yet) and a 60gb 5400 hard drive? I would stick with panther, but newer apps now need tiger as a minimum

Also, as i have a cd copy, am i right to think that there should be no complications when installing Tiger, as i does say on the apple site in system requirements that i need atleast a 333mHz processor and firewire, but i assume that those requirements arent completely necessary?

I would be truely grateful for any possitive replies that would help answer my questions.

Thanks

Lyam

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

stop stop stop
cant read that fast
first the slot loader was anything upgraded in the past?
than reset pram and hold down alt and apple keys select the drive
that should do it fingers crossed

the iMac slot loader runs on tiger quiet well
the iMac tray loader will run with tiger too if it gets enough ram , but its not really fast , runs better with panther

and go for a 7200 drive as it helps to speed up things if they run out of ram

btw usb drives are not bootable so you need a firewire if ...

here is a nice website for all things imac g3 related
http://imacworld.110mb.com/index.html

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

i dont think the slot loader has been upgarded as it was only ever used by a school, has been in school storage for many, many year and it only has one module of ram, although it will be likely to be upgraded if it works. now testing the reseting pram, will notify results.

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

it didnt work, yeah that would have been an easy solution

also the optical drive ejects and inserts discs and makes a disc spinning noise if thats any more info for people

EDIT: thanks for that site, i'm sure it will be a great help with all the useful links

lomolomo · Dec 27, 2009

lyam said:
So.... i have have a slot G3 that when is booted, it comes up with a flashing question mark (it seems that its classic OS). Apparently, it requires the system install disc which i have, but when i try to boot from the disc, it still comes up with the flashing question mark. Am i right to conclude that the optical drive is broken then? If so, am i able to boot the disc using an external cd drive as it would be easier and cheaper to buy one of these than installing a new cd drive?

if the other trick (apple key + alt) doesn't work, press C when starting up and you should be able to install or repair your system from the system CD.

Also, i will be upgrading my tray loading G3 to a larger IDE hard drive. The orginal 6gb hard drive contains classic 9.2 and 10.3.9, but when i upgrade, i want to keep the os 9.2 and maybe install either panther or tiger, but i dont have the orginal classic OS disc that came with it, just the one for the slot loaing iMac. If i replace the hard drive with the larger one and partition it correctly, am i able to install classic OS using the disc from the slot loading iMac G3 and then panther or tiger without any complications? If not, what do i have to do as i would really like to keep the classic os too?

connect your 6GB iMac via firewire (start up and press T) as volume to your other iMac, copy the whole thing to an external drive which you later build into your system....that approach should work I would think....if the 6GB is older than your other iMac with the OS 9 disc it should also work...but they are a bit more temperamental....or maybe there is a bt around.....

Finally, does anybody know from experience whether it would be wise to install Tiger onto a tray loading iMac G3 with 266 mHz processor, either 384mb or 512mb of RAM (i'm not sure whether to max it out yet) and a 60gb 5400 hard drive? I would stick with panther, but newer apps now need tiger as a minimum Also, as i have a cd copy, am i right to think that there should be no complications when installing Tiger, as i does say on the apple site in system requirements that i need atleast a 333mHz processor and firewire, but i assume that those requirements arent completely necessary?

Stick with Panther as you deal with an old machine.....

I would be truely grateful for any possitive replies that would help answer my questions.

Thanks

Lyam

-

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

Thank you for your fast replies, however i have tried both and neither work (alt + apple key and disc + c) i've even tried pressing the caps lock key to verify that caps lock was off on various attemps. i think that i shall stick to panther on the tray loader then.]

EDIT:the second solution has confused me slightly, would you be able to elaborate please as i do not understand. also the tray loader doesnt have firewire and the slot loader isnt working

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

so before i start tryig to think waht might cause what ere download this pdf (its for the tray loader but is the same on the slot loader , its the emargency manual)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iMacG3_originalEmergencyHndbk.PDF

read it and i guess it should either solve the problem or point out what exactly is wrong

ah one second you say tiger disc? , do you have 1 tiger disc ? , 2 grey discs or more? as if you have only one then its a dvd and you need a dvd drive, same for the two grey disc`s they are dvd`s and not all imac g3 slot loader came with dvd drive, in fact most came with simple cd drives

lomolomo · Dec 27, 2009

the handbook should work out fine for you....one thing about the iMac HD:

http://www.faqintosh.com/risorse/en/guides/hw/imac/imacg3dvhd/

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

lyam said:
Thank you for your fast replies, however i have tried both and neither work (alt + apple key and disc + c) i've even tried pressing the caps lock key to verify that caps lock was off on various attemps. i think that i shall stick to panther on the tray loader then.]

EDIT:the second solution has confused me slightly, would you be able to elaborate please as i do not understand. also the tray loader doesnt have firewire and the slot loader isnt working

you can use a external USB dvd/dvd rw cd rw drive ,but you cant boot from it (reinstalling operating system )
but on the slot loader you could if you use a firewire dvd/dvdrw /cdrw drive boot from it

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

another important info iMac g3 can only see up to 128gb harddrives internal , but
external no limit

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

MacHamster68 said:
so before i start tryig to think waht might cause what ere download this pdf (its for the tray loader but is the same on the slot loader , its the emargency manual)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iMacG3_originalEmergencyHndbk.PDF

read it and i guess it should either solve the problem or point out what exactly is wrong

I've got the official slot loading G3 guidebook and i printed out all the pages of that emergency handbook (because its hard to understand, giong backwards and forwards) and tried all solutions from both, but it doesnt boot from the disc

ah one second you say tiger disc? , do you have 1 tiger disc ? , 2 grey discs or more? as if you have only one then its a dvd and you need a dvd drive, same for the two grey disc`s they are dvd`s and not all imac g3 slot loader came with dvd drive, in fact most came with simple cd drives

Its got more than one disc so it should be the cd version, so it would work with both G3s as long as they work and i want to install it

Also, thanks MacHamster68, i was replacing the tray loader HD because of that no firewire and non bootable usb (although i wasnt too sure of what that meant)

so were you proposing putting the 6gb hard drive into the slot loader and borrowing my friends firewire external HD, copy everything from the internal HD to the external HD, then putting in the replacement 60gb HD (that should be going into the tray loader) into the slot loader and copying everything from the external HD into the partitioned area of the internal 60gb, then putting the internal HD into the tray loader from the slot loader? Also, would it still come up with the flashin question mark with the 6gb HD in there? and would it ruin things if the slot loader didnt have the latest firmware before putting in the 6gb HD from the tray loader?

AH, if this was a problem, before i take out the 6gb HD from the tray loader, would changing it to boot into classic OS 9 on start up be a solution if that was a problem. then i would just transfer the HD to an external HD in OS 9 instead of panther.

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

tiger are i think in disc version quiet a few disc i think 4
if your friend has a iMac g3
then he could connect the firewire external with your 60gb inside the enclosure and format it to mac os extended journaled and copy his os onto that then take it out of the enclosure fit it in yours and fine

where abouts are you in the uk

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

sorry for slow reply, i only have two friends with Macs, one with an ibook G4 (ithink) and one with a moderately new iMac (intel). I live in Norwich in East Anglia in Norfolk

EDIT: and it has 3 discs, but i was given to me with three as one was lost (but it is only some printer drivers which arent important for what i need it for)

MacHamster68 · Dec 27, 2009

ah ok yes the last disc number 4 isn`t important

so as you are sure the 60gb drive is working , fit that inside and check for any maybe lose connections (hands away from the crt screen , put in the first cd , switch off the iMac and turn it on by holding down the c- key at the same time and only let the key go when something happens , takes really long to have affect
if still nothing happens follow all instructions to related issues on the emergency handbook again , if still nothing then
we can rule out the harddrive for causing a problem and could point out the cd drive maybe dirt inside over the years or a non working lense

east anglia is a bit to far for me to pop around and take care of it

lyam · Dec 27, 2009

thanks for trying to help, err... it must be the optical drive though, because it should boot the disc (system install) whether the hard drive is working or not, so its a tricky one. i know that the flashing question mark may signify not being able to find the mac os classic on the hard drive, but the disc should still boot whether the hard drive works or not. So should i take out the optical drive and blow through it

and maybe try and clean it out, then put it all back together making sure all is connected well, is that what i should do?

also, i may not need to duplicate my drive as there isnt anything important (except the mac os classic). if i just insert the new hd in the tray loader and reinstall mas os classic, then upgrade to panther again, would that work just as well? BUT as i've said, the mac classic disc has been used before to install the os, so do you know whether i can use it multiple times? i dont really want to have to take apart both iMacs at the same time, interchanging things

MacHamster68 · Dec 28, 2009

yes you can use it as often as you like
and yes cleaning the drive cant do any harm and so can checking all connections inside ,but could solve the problem eventually
and for the hardrive which one you chose for the slot loader or tray loader is actually up to you

lyam · Dec 29, 2009

Thanks for all your help (especially MacHamster68

),

I think instead of backing up and transfering the data from the tray loader onto a new drive, i will just reinstall mac classic, then panther and all the other software because although its time consuming, it will be much simpler.

And for the slot loading imac, i will take out the optical drive, give it a clean (as i know it was stored in an extremely dusty place, actually a technology room) and plug back in, making sure its all connected properly. If that doesnt work, i might just buy a replacement internal optical drive from eBay

And i will install tiger on the slot loader, and panther on the tray loader.

Two more questions though:

1. How do you partition a new hard drive? Is it fairly obvious eg. does the partitioning software appear on start up?

2. Do i have to partition the imac slot loader IF i buy a new ide HD

lyam · Dec 29, 2009

lyam said:
Thanks for all your help (especially MacHamster68 ),

I think instead of backing up and transfering the data from the tray loader onto a new drive, i will just reinstall mac classic, then panther and all the other software because although its time consuming, it will be much simpler.

And for the slot loading imac, i will take out the optical drive, give it a clean (as i know it was stored in an extremely dusty place, actually a technology room) and plug back in, making sure its all connected properly. If that doesnt work, i might just buy a replacement internal optical drive from eBay

And i will install tiger on the slot loader, and panther on the tray loader.

Two more questions though:

1. How do you partition a new hard drive? Is it fairly obvious eg. does the partitioning software appear on start up?

2. Do i have to partition the imac slot loader IF i buy a new ide HD

(edit) The reason why I ask this is because i may put the 60gb hard drive into the slot loader, and the 40gb from the slot loader into the tray loader

MacHamster68 · Dec 29, 2009

For partitioning you need Disk Utility which does not appear automatically :

Mac OS X installation disc, choose Disk Utility from the Utilities menu.

Select the disk you want to partition (that is, the disk you want to install Mac OS X on. The disk contains size and model number of the drive, not "Macintosh HD" or a name you chose.
Click the Partition tab in the Disk Utility window. If the partition tab is not visible, make sure you've selected the disk (not volume) in the left side of the window.

Tip: In Disk Utility, volume names are indented on the left side of the window. Disk names are not indented.
Choose the desired number of partitions from the Volume Scheme pop-up menu. It's OK to choose "1 Partition" if you only want one.

you need to format in "Mac OS Extended Journaled "

Make any other changes you wish in the Volume Information section, such as partition size(s) or naming.
Click the Partition button to erase your disk and install the new partition scheme.
When partitioning finishes, you should be able to install Mac OS X on the volume

lyam · Dec 29, 2009

thanks

it is recommended for me to partition no more than 7gb on the imacs, therefore i should be able to install two operating systems (classic and panther) on that one partition, shouldnt I?

MacHamster68 · Dec 30, 2009

lyam said:
thanks

it is recommended for me to partition no more than 7gb on the imacs, therefore i should be able to install two operating systems (classic and panther) on that one partition, shouldnt I?

only a partiton of max 7 better 6.5 for os9 panther can go on the rest , have a slot loader with panther and os 9.2.2 and i have a 6.5 gb partiton os 9
and a 121.5 gb panther partiton

good site for iMac g3 http://imacworld.110mb.com/index.html

lyam · Dec 30, 2009

thank you so much for your help. every question i have thrown at you, you have answered and i'm very grateful. i now feel confident enough to start this "project" without the constant fear off making everything worse

i think thats eveything

Lyam

MacHamster68 · Dec 30, 2009

good luck and wish you loads of fun with the little iMac`s they are still great computers

PurrBall · Dec 30, 2009

On the tray loader, OS X must be in the first 8 GB of the hard drive. In order to prevent the OS from growing outside of that, I would partition the tray loader to have a 7 GB OS X partition and then use the rest for whatever.

lyam · Dec 31, 2009

Ok, can i just verify this:

So my tray loader will have a partition of 7gb for panther, and then maybe a 4gb for classic os? Can't i put classic os and panther in the same 7gb partition (i dont really understand how partitioning works)?

And...

My slot loader should have a 6.5gb partition just for classic, and then install panther on the rest of the 53.5gb?

Need help with iMac G3s, mac os 9 and mac os X tiger

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