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This is why they should have put NFC in the iPhone Edit: Google Security Trouble

B

BearerOBadNews

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 28, 2011
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Last edited:
I agree that NFC seems to be the payment method of the future. Why carry around a pile of silly plastic cards when you already have a phone? Just use that for payments instead. Given that, I'd say that an iPhone with NFC built in may be inevitable, but perhaps not imminent. Apple likes to introduce new features when they're useful. Right now not enough retailers support NFC for it to be advantageous. Chicken and Egg perhaps, but that's where we stand.

That said:

a. The music in the video is overly dramatic.

and

b. Selecting the orange soda was clearly a mistake.
 
chameleon said:
I agree that NFC seems to be the payment method of the future. Why carry around a pile of silly plastic cards when you already have a phone? Just use that for payments instead. Given that, I'd say that an iPhone with NFC built in may be inevitable, but perhaps not imminent. Apple likes to introduce new features when they're useful. Right now not enough retailers support NFC for it to be advantageous. Chicken and Egg perhaps, but that's where we stand.

That said:

a. The music in the video is overly dramatic.

and

b. Selecting the orange soda was clearly a mistake.
Click to expand...

a. I didn't have a problem with the music. I thought it was pretty catchy actually.
b. LMAO you're right, definitely messed up when he went with orange lol. :D

To your other points, I think NFC is in enough places where it can be a nice convenience. Of course I don't think it is necessary, but then again bluetooth headsets aren't necessary but I prefer them. I'm hoping we see NFC in the next iPhone, considering that NFC is due to pick up this year. Especially since companies like Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile are heavily invested in the ISIS system. I think they said the ISIS system is supposed to launch some time this quarter.
 
BearerOBadNews said:
To your other points, I think NFC is in enough places where it can be a nice convenience. Of course I don't think it is necessary, but then again bluetooth headsets aren't necessary but I prefer them. I'm hoping we see NFC in the next iPhone, considering that NFC is due to pick up this year. Especially since companies like Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile are heavily invested in the ISIS system. I think they said the ISIS system is supposed to launch some time this quarter.
Click to expand...

As I said, I think it's a Chicken and the Egg situation:

On one hand, Apple may not want to spend the extra $$$, and add the extra battery drain for an NFC chip when there aren't many retailers who support it.

On the other, we need a mass-market giant like the iPhone to support NFC to push most retailers to start accepting it.

It's a tough situation. If I were making the decisions at Apple, I'd be hard pressed to say "add another $10 or $15 to the production cost of an iPhone" (wild guess) for a fringe technology like NFC.

I'm hopeful it will happen, but I wouldn't bet on it for the iPhone 5.
 
I think its pretty cool. Don't think its quite ready for mobile phones yet. In the UK i've only really noticed it in the McDonalds.

I think its probably best implemented when its matured a bit.
 
I'm all for it as long as it gives me nice record keeping and 1-5% cash back like my credit card.
 
I've had a PayPass on my keychain for a couple years, and it's only about once a month that I'm somewhere that would actually accept it. My gas station will, but only at the counter not at the pump. McDs will, but I rarely eat there. None of the vending machines I'm around take it. The restaurants I visit don't take it. Occasionally, some stores will take it.

I've found that big businesses won't go through the cost and effort of changing their point of sale hardware unless they're really trying to do fast transactions (fast food yes, department store no). Small businesses get the cheapest credit card reader they can find.

Looking at http://www.mastercard.us/cardholder-services/paypass-locator.html, it seems mostly to be gas stations and fast food, although it looks like my Home Depot will take them now....
 
chameleon said:
As I said, I think it's a Chicken and the Egg situation:

On one hand, Apple may not want to spend the extra $$$, and add the extra battery drain for an NFC chip when there aren't many retailers who support it.

On the other, we need a mass-market giant like the iPhone to support NFC to push most retailers to start accepting it.

It's a tough situation. If I were making the decisions at Apple, I'd be hard pressed to say "add another $10 or $15 to the production cost of an iPhone" (wild guess) for a fringe technology like NFC.

I'm hopeful it will happen, but I wouldn't bet on it for the iPhone 5.
Click to expand...

I think you overestimate the cost of NFC. It isn't expensive at all actually and doesn't really add much of anything to the cost. I do agree with you that if Apple added NFC retailers would pick it up at an even faster rate. The good thing though is that the isis system will be launching soon and most higher end phones coming out now are NFC capable, so there will be more people using it (which will spur more retailers to jump on board).
BTW, battery drain via NFC is almost non-existant. It uses an extremely small amount of power.
 
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until there's a government-approved way to keeping my driver's license on my phone, i will still need to carry my wallet. and once i have my wallet, what's adding a few cards?

nfc is cool, but apple probably won't jump in until adoption hits critical mass. which could be YEARS.
 
Apple will save as much money by omitting features which will result in further deaths of Chinese workers. Apple don't care, it's all about making money and killing Asians
 
Carl G35c said:
I just want to copy my id badge for work... that's really the only reason I want nfc
Click to expand...

They've got NFC emulation working on the Nexus S and they're working on it on the Galaxy Nexus (over at xda). The goal is to be able to read a card, stored the information and emulate that card using the phone. That will be a great feature as then you could store multiple nfc cards all in your phone and use it as the card instead.
 
We are seeing this tech on more and more Android phones. Honestly, the "paypass" tech has been around for a while now (ten years or more just off the top of my head) and I don't even feel that really caught on in the states. Personally I would love not to have to pull my wallet out on every sale. That said, many [places are still likely to require an ID so... it wouldn't really be saving me much time. If anything, the credit card companies should be pushing this. Think of the money they could save by not mailing new credit cards out years down the road. We already have paperless billing... next step is plastic free shopping! ;)
 
lordofthereef said:
We are seeing this tech on more and more Android phones. Honestly, the "paypass" tech has been around for a while now (ten years or more just off the top of my head) and I don't even feel that really caught on in the states. Personally I would love not to have to pull my wallet out on every sale. That said, many [places are still likely to require an ID so... it wouldn't really be saving me much time. If anything, the credit card companies should be pushing this. Think of the money they could save by not mailing new credit cards out years down the road. We already have paperless billing... next step is plastic free shopping! ;)
Click to expand...

The thing is, asking for an ID is actually pointless since there is nothing for them to compare it to. As the technology gets used more frequently, retailers will become more well-versed with taking NFC payments. Though truth be told, I've yet to run into any issues with retailers as far as using it. The only time I somewhat had an issue was at home depot when the girl asked to see the card lol. I had to explain to her how everything worked and why there wasn't anything for her to see. That was the only time I had a problem, and I've been using it now since my Nexus S. I can't wait for it to pick up and become even more prevalent.
 
mysterioustko said:
The thing is, asking for an ID is actually pointless since there is nothing for them to compare it to.
Click to expand...

A name doesn't even come up in the system? If not, not sure how I like that... As a retailer, I think I would at least start logging the name and address on an ID if the purchase is over a couple hundred bucks.
 
lordofthereef said:
A name doesn't even come up in the system? If not, not sure how I like that... As a retailer, I think I would at least start logging the name and address on an ID if the purchase is over a couple hundred bucks.
Click to expand...

Not necessary to do that. In order to use it, the app has to be unlocked with a pin. That's more secure than checking an ID against a physical card. So in essence it's no different than them not checking ID when you use your card as debit (since they assume since you know the pin it's your card). NFC is much more secure than a physical card.

Note: You didn't see a pin entered on the app in the video because I set the app to stay unlocked for 30 minutes after pin entry (didn't want to be entering a pin on camera).
 
marine0816 said:
Apple will save as much money by omitting features which will result in further deaths of Chinese workers. Apple don't care, it's all about making money and killing Asians
Click to expand...

It is better that bringing the iPhone assembly to the USA where they would have to use UNION labor and your iPhone would cost over a $100 each and have lower quality!

Apple is a prime example of the free market and the PRIVATE SECTOR doing what it does best!:apple:
 
mysterioustko said:
Not necessary to do that. In order to use it, the app has to be unlocked with a pin. That's more secure than checking an ID against a physical card. So in essence it's no different than them not checking ID when you use your card as debit (since they assume since you know the pin it's your card). NFC is much more secure than a physical card.

Note: You didn't see a pin entered on the app in the video because I set the app to stay unlocked for 30 minutes after pin entry (didn't want to be entering a pin on camera).
Click to expand...

On larger purchases (let's say $500+) many places still ask for an ID IME. All I am saying is I like that. :)
 
I'm sorry, but I must dissent from this idea.

While the idea of NFC is grand in notion, I can clearly see the actual reality of it all being a failure.
Yes, it would be great to just walk up and swipe something such as your phone next to a reader and the money automatically deducted. Life made just a little easier.

But the reality of it all comes down to a few simple facts.
1. The "Oh crap, where's my phone?" problem. How long has it been gone. Did I leave it at the gas station? A check of your account and you see unauthorized charges.
2. Security. You can put a PIN on its usage, etc. But then that detracts from just the logic of NFC. And like anything else, it'll be hacked or broken soon enough. Look at how easily credit cards, and the PINs are stolen.
3. The adaptation of NFC style payments would cost retailers and additional charge. Like each credit card type, the NFC unit and subscription would also be an additional charge to use.

I see many reasons why this idea is really great, but could also easily fails in its normal day to day usage.
 
Plenty of places take it but you don't notice if you don't use it. Most places that do take it don't check ID anyway like fast food and machines when paying at the pump or vending.

It will never be the end all in payment. Will you ever give your phone to the bartender when you start a tab? Or a waitress in a random restaurant to carry into the back? Im to cynical for that.

However we need to start progressing with this tech if we ever expect advancements in it.

There is more to it the continence of not carrying a card or two. They can document purchases for financing reason and assign multiple cards too it so you can select which gives you the best cash back for whatever it is you are buying. Plus I think it's pretty cool lol
 
lordofthereef said:
On larger purchases (let's say $500+) many places still ask for an ID IME. All I am saying is I like that. :)
Click to expand...
I've never really thought the whole checking ID was all that secure anyway. A person can very easily have a fake ID made to match the name on the card. Heck here in GA, the temporary ID's are printed on a piece of paper and that's what you carry until your plastic one arrives. A person can easily print their own and just keep it in the window of their wallet. It isn't like retailers make you take it out of the window anyway.

iceterminal said:
I'm sorry, but I must dissent from this idea.

While the idea of NFC is grand in notion, I can clearly see the actual reality of it all being a failure.
Yes, it would be great to just walk up and swipe something such as your phone next to a reader and the money automatically deducted. Life made just a little easier.

But the reality of it all comes down to a few simple facts.
1. The "Oh crap, where's my phone?" problem. How long has it been gone. Did I leave it at the gas station? A check of your account and you see unauthorized charges.
2. Security. You can put a PIN on its usage, etc. But then that detracts from just the logic of NFC. And like anything else, it'll be hacked or broken soon enough. Look at how easily credit cards, and the PINs are stolen.
3. The adaptation of NFC style payments would cost retailers and additional charge. Like each credit card type, the NFC unit and subscription would also be an additional charge to use.

I see many reasons why this idea is really great, but could also easily fails in its normal day to day usage.
Click to expand...
I disagree, it isn't cumbersome at all to input the pin. You tap, input the pin, tap again. It all takes seconds, it doesn't make it any more difficult or tedious at all. As for security, if you lose your phone a person can't use your nfc capability for charges without the pin. Even if they did eventually somehow hack the phone and got the pin, that is still much more secure than just dropping a credit card and someone finding it. A person finding your phone would not have your credit card number whereas a person finding your credit card instantly has your card number, name, and ccv on the back. NFC is WAY MORE SECURE.
 
iceterminal said:
I'm sorry, but I must dissent from this idea.

While the idea of NFC is grand in notion, I can clearly see the actual reality of it all being a failure.
Yes, it would be great to just walk up and swipe something such as your phone next to a reader and the money automatically deducted. Life made just a little easier.

But the reality of it all comes down to a few simple facts.
1. The "Oh crap, where's my phone?" problem. How long has it been gone. Did I leave it at the gas station? A check of your account and you see unauthorized charges.

2. Security. You can put a PIN on its usage, etc. But then that detracts from just the logic of NFC. And like anything else, it'll be hacked or broken soon enough. Look at how easily credit cards, and the PINs are stolen.

3. The adaptation of NFC style payments would cost retailers and additional charge. Like each credit card type, the NFC unit and subscription would also be an additional charge to use.

I see many reasons why this idea is really great, but could also easily fails in its normal day to day usage.
Click to expand...

1) Don't see an issue with this. Don't leave your phone :) I have yet to leave my phone and my wallet and credit card at any retailers.

2) NFC is actually a combination of technology. Its not just PIN. When you add a credit card to your phone to use you will get same protection as u do with credit cards.

3) True but it will and is currently changing. When I had my NS4G it was usable in pretty much any store I shop at. I still have my wallet with me but I was able to pay with the phone everywhere I needed to. Only issue was that it was linked to citibank cards only at this time. I did however had thank you rewards on it so i still got same points. Google is offering incentives to businesses so eventually it will pickup. Also what I would like to see is integration with reward cards. That would be awesome.
 
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