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iMac BTO is an rip off

Q

quikstub

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 14, 2012
5
0
The hardware that is built in the iMac is now a year old and the 2012 imac is still months away. The Buyer's Guide advises not to buy. But with new CPU and GPU coming i thought it might be interesting to get an iMac now.

So i checked the BTO 27'iMac. I got really annoyed to see how much money they want for BTO that late in a product cycle. The BTO aren't offering new products btw. I took the market prices of the hardware at a pc shop in my hometown for the comparison. Those guys also take a margin of profit and Apple gets for sure better deals that this small pc shop. The Gap is for sure even bigger than my comparison. Cash that apple puts in his bag.

My first Mac was an PowerBook G4 so i'm into apple since a while. But i get more and more fed up by it. It's not about prices in general, that a different topic. It's about BTO which i consider a clear ripp off!

i live in Switzerland. 1$ = roughly 0.9 CHF at the moment

Hardware Apple |||||| Dealer ||||| Difference

1. CPU i5 -> i7 2600 + 200 |||||| + 100 |||||| + 100

2. RAM 4 -> 8GB + 200 |||||| + 50 ||||||| + 150

for 50.- more i get 2 new 4GB sticks

3. HD 1 -> 2 TB + 150 |||||| + 60 |||||| + 90
HD 1 repl. SSD + 500 |||||| + 400 ||||| + 260*

The built in HDD 1GB cost bout 160.- on the market, which i dont get!

HD 1 -> SSD + 1TB + 600 ||||| + 400 |||||| + 200

Looks like the better option. Still getting ripped off massiv!

4. VRAM 1GB - 2GB +100 |||||| roughly +40 |||||| + 60

Now in focus that the iMac is the only affordable Mac that has a bit Power, the prices are ridiculous.

i would have to pay +1100.- CHF do get a decent powered iMac! Paying 200% for the BTO hardware?

You really can't be serious.

Apple needs the mac pro with Sandy Bridge-E or at least an iMac with punch for a fair price. All we get is iPhones and Ipads.. and yes some overpriced old Computers with rip off BTO prices. Not to mention, that you can't do anything with an iMac if you don't want to loose warranty.... well changing ram at least. Bet the iMac 2012 will even lack that.

Am i exagerating or i this just ok for you guys?

Sry for my bad english. Thx a lot.

Buying Advise: Don't Buy Macs unless they just got released! Seems like hackintosh is the future ;(;(
 
Apple BTO options always were expensive, no argument here. But as for "its one year old hardware", its still the fastest in its class. The i7-2600 is still the fastest Intel's consumer CPU with locked multiplier; same goes for the GPU (the 7900m are not released yet).

So what exactly are you complaining about?

Also, its a bit funny to listen about high prices from a Swiss with your crazy salaries. As a matter of fact, I also live in Switzerland and despite having a crappy 50% grad student salary and living in a cramped apartment for which I dish out more then 30% of my income, I still could afford a BTO iMac every few months with relative ease. An average higher-educated Swiss in Zurich area easily makes over CHF 6000 a month...

As to the Hackintosh - been there, tried that. Doesn't work really. Anyway, good luck building custom PC with similar form factor like the iMac for the same money...
 
leman said:
Apple BTO options always were expensive, no argument here. But as for "its one year old hardware", its still the fastest in its class. The i7-2600 is still the fastest Intel's consumer CPU with locked multiplier; same goes for the GPU (the 7900m are not released yet).

So what exactly are you complaining about?
Click to expand...

i said: If i want a decent powered iMac... which is for sure only the iMac BTO
i get ripped off! So i get value for a very expensive price.

leman said:
Also, its a bit funny to listen about high prices from a Swiss with your crazy salaries. As a matter of fact, I also live in Switzerland and despite having a crappy 50% grad student salary and living in a cramped apartment for which I dish out more then 30% of my income, I still could afford a BTO iMac every few months with relative ease. An average higher-educated Swiss in Zurich area easily makes over CHF 6000 a month...

As to the Hackintosh - been there, tried that. Doesn't work really. Anyway, good luck building custom PC with similar form factor like the iMac for the same money...
Click to expand...


Yeah specially architects, Illustrators, GraphicDesigners, ProductDesigners, etc.. - the old apple customers - we all get easily 6000 a month right after diploma...yeah right! You should know better living here. And you know what the living costs are, specially if you life in Zürich. Think you don't know too much bout Switzerland.

Hackintosh - why did you fail ?

Formfactor? Form follows function... and i don't buy an overpriced mac just because it looks nice. It's a working tool aswell.
 
Duh, people on this forum know better than to buy ram from App

Apple doesn't change their prices as in the free market commodity prices from your PC retailer.

The 2010 Mac Pro still costs the same in 2012 as it did in 2010, since there hasn't been an update in 2011, thanks intel.

Most Mac users care about the usability of their computers not specs. Most won't bother with building their own hackintosh because they'd be more productive paying more and not scavenging for compatible hardware.

Many Mac users just want to work and not worry about their computers.

For most Mac users, the time spent @ $ and hours is worth more spending on a Mac than learning about hackintosh which is of no interest to them.

Yeah prices aren't competive at the end of a release cycle, but that's why Apple has so much money in the bank. BC most consumers aren't techies.
 
spacepower7 said:
Yeah prices aren't competive at the end of a release cycle, but that's why Apple has so much money in the bank.
Click to expand...

Thats the policy that makes this company more and more unattractive from my view of point. The thing is that they don't really care about pro users anymore. They make 3/4 of their sales with ipads, iphones and itunes.

let those dummies buy the old stuff - let em pay fantasy off-market prices.

The mac pro you mentioned is the hardcore example. They don't care if they could sell more units if they would make the prices more fair. Thats the thing i don't get.

And with all the hype around apple, people will still buy a overpriced iMac BTO - because they don't take a closer look at it, don't care bout the money.

Somehow the consumers lost track ;(
 
quikstub said:
i said: If i want a decent powered iMac... which is for sure only the iMac BTO
i get ripped off! So i get value for a very expensive price.
Click to expand...

For a "decent iMac" you only need a CPU upgrade. You don't need a GPU upgrade and if you absolutely want an SSD (which you don't really need anyway), the 256Gb is pricey but more or less comparable with the retail. Get an external FW or TB enclosure (affordable start to appear right now). Or, get an SSD with an TB enclosure and use it as your main drive. Get RAM from an online vendor, its much cheaper.


quikstub said:
Yeah specially architects, Illustrators, GraphicDesigners, ProductDesigners, etc.. - the old apple customers - we all get easily 6000 a month right after diploma...yeah right! You should know better living here. And you know what the living costs are, specially if you life in Zürich. Think you don't know too much bout Switzerland.
Click to expand...

Well, I get a doctoral stipend, which is really not much, but I seem to come along just fine. The 6000 a month is a postdoc position at a university, which is usually lower then a job in the industry.

And if you are a freelancer, just get your working computer deduced from the taxes. There is also always a credit option (costs of a credit are also deducible from the taxes).

quikstub said:
Hackintosh - why did you fail ?
Click to expand...

Hackintosh ends up being more hassle than its worth if you want everything working right. if you don't mind your machine unable going to sleep properly and glitches like that, Hackintosh can be great. Beware the price of that 27" ISP display though, if you want to get one!
 
if you are not happy with Apple as I know for sure we would like to see much lower prices for the product then don't buy one.

Remember this, the backup is superb, the time they will spend with you is unlimited, the extra you pay for warranty is good value.

Also phone up any pc maker or outlet and ask them how much a minute they charge you for telephone backup, and I can assure you that you will need backup with pc as the Windows platform has a registry that easily gets screwed.

Also what about the second hand value. I bet you didn't think of that!!
 
You are comparing Apples to Oranges.

If you want to suck on an Orange, buy an Orange.

If you want to enjoy the benefits of an Apple, buy an Apple.

For year I enjoyed the low price benefit of other branded personal computers.

Now I enjoy the no headache benefit of owning an Apple.

One thing I like about Apple is they keep their price point steady so that it is predictable.

Feature/performance will increase from one year to the next but they do their best to keep price points the same unlike some PC manufacturers who boost the price on the 'latest' model.

FWIW: I have a BTO 27" iMac - the benefit of buying an iMac late in its life cycle is you can walk into the Apple Store and pick up a BTO unit without ordering and waiting. You get the options that you cannot readily upgrade yourself ( CPU )
 
The new iMac are a better value than the 2008/early 2009 models where you had to pay 2 grand for 2 gigs of ram, 320 gig HD and a core2duo.
 
Michaelgtrusa said:
The new iMac are a better value than the 2008/early 2009 models where you had to pay 2 grand for 2 gigs of ram, 320 gig HD and a core2duo.
Click to expand...

Umm considering 2gb of RAM wasn't all that uncommon for computers and only the very first i7s came out in late 2008 ("normal" consumer grade processors weren't released until mid-2009). Sounds like they were pretty competitive with other vendors at that time...
 
So the OP is pointing out how Apple makes money, and is one of the successful businesses. :rolleyes:
 
harcosparky said:
For year I enjoyed the low price benefit of other branded personal computers.

Now I enjoy the no headache benefit of owning an Apple.
Click to expand...

Most people on this forum prefer apple.
If you prefer PC stick with them.
If you went the no headache thats fine; a lot of your pricing was not that smart.
My 92 y/o grandmother thought it was easy enough to change the ram.
And your form vs function comment- try to find an all in one with those specs/looks/performance.

I understand you may not speak english but for future reference could you please capitalize "i"
thanks
(sorry if I come across rude)
 
I upgrade my iMac roughly every two years. When I sell my old iMac usually on EBay I get over half the initial outlay back which then helps pay for the new iMac.

So essentially I upgrade for half-price each time, trying doing that with a PC system... :rolleyes:
 
I am a firm believer of you getting what you pay for.

My cousin goes for cheap BTO computers and pirated software, but they break down quickly, and he has to replace them every year on average.

In the long run, it doesn't really work out to much cheaper than an imac, which can be expected to last ~5 years.

That said, ram is easy enough to upgrade in an imac, and I never really saw the point of SSD in a desktop anyways. IMO, many of the benefits are lost on a non-portable computer, and the speed boost alone isn't really worth the hefty price tag.

In short, just go with the stock model, it should serve your needs well enough.:)
 
Abazigal said:
very year on average.
Click to expand...

TCO ( Total Cost Of Ownership ) is an important consideration lost on all but the most informed.

When I worked in IT I was buying a new Notebook every year, it was in my budget to do so. By the end of the year, the notebook was ready for retirement. I was tough on them. I was spending about $2400 - $3000 for an HP Omnibook a year.

My first Apple notebook was a G4 Powerbook, I had no problem spending the money Apple wanted but what surprised me most was the condition of that all aluminum notebook at the end of the first year. It was still like new, and functioning like new. That Powerbook lasted me over three years and saved me more than enough money to step up to a G5 Power Mac ( it was the last G5 model before Intel CPU's were used.

Both that G4 Powebook and G5 Power Mac are still in use today by family members.

Sure Apple computers cost more up front, but at least in my personal experience they payoff in the end.
 
Georgio said:
I upgrade my iMac roughly every two years. When I sell my old iMac usually on EBay I get over half the initial outlay back which then helps pay for the new iMac.

So essentially I upgrade for half-price each time, trying doing that with a PC system... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Of course most of the system in a PC would be re-used :rolleyes:

Like the monitor, hard drives, case, PSU,

You would only change the CPU, GPU, ram, and motherboard.
Two year old components can be sold for a decent fraction for their value.

Effectively upgrading for half price.
 
cirus said:
Of course most of the system in a PC would be re-used :rolleyes:

Like the monitor, hard drives, case, PSU,

You would only change the CPU, GPU, ram, and motherboard.
Two year old components can be sold for a decent fraction for their value.

Effectively upgrading for half price.
Click to expand...

There is a difference in getting a completely new system for half a price or just updating few components for half a price, so your comparison is not really valid.

Well, I managed to sell my last custom-build PC for more money than it actually cost to built it, so I was rather happy ^^
 
bottleneck said:
Do you suggest that Apple is using better components? Have a look inside:
Click to expand...

How many times does this point get raised?

It's not just about components! You also need to take into account build quality, design, service and resale value. All things that Apple excels at.
 
Georgio said:
I upgrade my iMac roughly every two years. When I sell my old iMac usually on EBay I get over half the initial outlay back which then helps pay for the new iMac.

So essentially I upgrade for half-price each time, trying doing that with a PC system... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

leman said:
There is a difference in getting a completely new system for half a price or just updating few components for half a price, so your comparison is not really valid.

Well, I managed to sell my last custom-build PC for more money than it actually cost to built it, so I was rather happy ^^
Click to expand...

Great validation of previous post. :rolleyes:

Yes, your new imac will come in essentially the same form factor (assuming an update every two years ie. 2010 imac is same as 2012) so you are really exchanging parts for a newer version of the same. Is there really any difference there? Of course the CPU, GPU, etc. will change but the screen and case will not.

Yes there is a difference between completely new system for half a price or just updating few components for half a price but will you really notice the difference? Assuming you are happy with the case, screen, keyboard, of your old system would you care?

Notice I say 'effectively upgrading'.
 
cirus said:
Great validation of previous post. :rolleyes:

Yes, your new imac will come in essentially the same form factor (assuming an update every two years ie. 2010 imac is same as 2012) so you are really exchanging parts for a newer version of the same. Is there really any difference there? Of course the CPU, GPU, etc. will change but the screen and case will not.

Yes there is a difference between completely new system for half a price or just updating few components for half a price but will you really notice the difference? Assuming you are happy with the case, screen, keyboard, of your old system would you care?

Notice I say 'effectively upgrading'.
Click to expand...

Nice way of quoting me out of context. Yes, I was able to sell my PC for more than it cost me. I also sold it only 2 month after I built it, and that was the sole reason why something like that was possible in the first place.

As to "is there a difference", yes there is one extremely important one: warranty. Electronic devices wear out and fail. If your monitor suddenly dies after 4-5 years, you have to get a new one (a repair is often the more expensive option). If all of your components are new and covered by warranty, you essentially have the benefits of latest and greatest technology (better screen quality, reduced power consumption, etc.) in a worry-free environment. I guess its something at least.
 
leman said:
Nice way of quoting me out of context. Yes, I was able to sell my PC for more than it cost me. I also sold it only 2 month after I built it, and that was the sole reason why something like that was possible in the first place.

As to "is there a difference", yes there is one extremely important one: warranty. Electronic devices wear out and fail. If your monitor suddenly dies after 4-5 years, you have to get a new one (a repair is often the more expensive option). If all of your components are new and covered by warranty, you essentially have the benefits of latest and greatest technology (better screen quality, reduced power consumption, etc.) in a worry-free environment. I guess its something at least.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I just meant it to show that PC's can be sold at fairly decent prices (isn't depreciation like 30% a year so after 2 years its about about 50% of its original value?). A ati 4850 card is about $50-80 on ebay. It was released june 2008 (almost 4 years ago) at a cost of about $200.

I agree with you on warranty. Though I thought most components have at least a two year warranty. And it is a lot of trouble to send back to manufacturer as opposed to apple care (but that costs extra). Though I think most people would get a new monitor after 5 years.
 
leman said:
Apple BTO options always were expensive, no argument here. But as for "its one year old hardware", its still the fastest in its class. The i7-2600 is still the fastest Intel's consumer CPU with locked multiplier; same goes for the GPU (the 7900m are not released yet).

So what exactly are you complaining about?

Also, its a bit funny to listen about high prices from a Swiss with your crazy salaries. As a matter of fact, I also live in Switzerland and despite having a crappy 50% grad student salary and living in a cramped apartment for which I dish out more then 30% of my income, I still could afford a BTO iMac every few months with relative ease. An average higher-educated Swiss in Zurich area easily makes over CHF 6000 a month...

As to the Hackintosh - been there, tried that. Doesn't work really. Anyway, good luck building custom PC with similar form factor like the iMac for the same money...
Click to expand...

copy pasting this to use as a shield every time I get attacked by a PC Warrior
 
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