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eBay Issues (Advice Please)

J

Jason S.

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
504
1
Pennsylvania
So recently I just sold my iMac on eBay. Here is the listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230772546531

The buyer received it today, and sent me a message claiming it was "not as described." This is the message I received from him:

I received the Apple iMac from you and it is refurbished. The memory is not from apple. NO WHERE IN THE DESCRIPTION does it say its refurbished. You Lied to me, I was under the assumption that it was purchased NEW not refurbished...
I want my money back....
I don't like being lied to, and I will pursue this the very end out of shear principal. I want a full Refund!
Click to expand...

And this was my reply to him:

Ed,

The item was listed as Used, according to eBay this means "The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used." The iMac meets this description. I am sorry that you feel I had lied to you, but I never claimed in the item's description that I purchased it as new. I purchased the item directly from Apple.

The item is still covered under the same warranty that Apple gives on all their products. It is good until December 2012. If anything, you are probably less likely to have any problems with this iMac, because it has undergone very thorough quality assurance testing. Apple themselves even stated that "only some units are returned due to technical issues"; a lot of times they are just returns. Still, they are double checked, and go through even more quality testing than a new product. Please read Apple's information about these products: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/refurbfaq_popup

As far as the RAM not being the original Hynix brand memory that Apple puts in the iMac, it was listed as "Customized," so again, I am sorry if you feel you were lied to.

I can ship the original memory that was in the computer (4GB) to you at no additional cost if you would like, and you can of course keep the 16GB RAM that was in the iMac. I used the 16GB the entire time I had the computer, and had no issues. It is not a cheap brand of memory.

I want to make this right for you. But I do not believe I lied about the item in any way. I am sorry that you feel this way, but honestly I believe the iMac you got is just like new, if not even better, because it has gone through the extra quality assurance testing.

- Jason
Click to expand...

Should I be worried about this? I guess if it comes down to it, I'll just have to pay to have it shipped back to me (and hope he didn't break it in the meantime out of anger or something), and refund the money.

I have heard in the past that eBay tends to favor the buyer in disputes, but honestly I feel I have not violated any eBay policies, and I did not lie in the description about the condition of the iMac.

Has anybody been in this situation before? Should I contact eBay? How do I contact them?

After this, with all the fees and everything, I'm definitely done with eBay...
 
Well just an outsiders opinion, I think I would be a little upset just because in your auction you quote the setup as costing 2299$. This cost would only reach that amount IF the machine is purchased brand new. The refurb cost is 1419, before tax and the added RAM of course. Then again had I bought it, it wouldnt have bothered me as much because I personally have purchased Apple Refurb and have never had an issue.
 
The description does make it sound like it is new... but no worries, the auction is marked as used so chances are you'll win the dispute.

In anycase, eBay is risky for high value items; PayPal/eBay don't really protect either party very well.
 
The buyer sounds like a total ****ing tool. While you made it seem as though "your loss was his HUGE gain" because you presumably bought the iMac new, you did list it as customized and used. You were only slightly misleading as to how new it was when you got it. I would be mildly annoyed but I would not bother with a claim or even an e-mail. I would probably say you implied it was bought new and it wasn't. Even still, that one you sold is probably better than many new ones because it has been fixed with whatever issue plagued the machine in the first place.

Are you in the clear? It doesn't sound like it but I think the most you'll suffer is wasted time on this tool.
 
keithers24 said:
Well just an outsiders opinion, I think I would be a little upset just because in your auction you quote the setup as costing 2299$. This cost would only reach that amount IF the machine is purchased brand new. The refurb cost is 1419, before tax and the added RAM of course. Then again had I bought it, it wouldnt have bothered me as much because I personally have purchased Apple Refurb and have never had an issue.
Click to expand...

coolspot18 said:
The description does make it sound like it is new... but no worries, the auction is marked as used so chances are you'll win the dispute.
Click to expand...

I see what you are both saying. It wasn't my intent to make it sound like it was bought new; I was trying to show how much the savings over Apple are, but I suppose I could have been more clear about that. I told him to ship it back, and then I will give a refund. I'd just rather not have any problems or deal with the possible stress of a dispute with eBay.

Part of me is still so paranoid though, thinking things like: What if he sends me back a box of bricks? Takes out the RAM? Sends me a different/broken computer?

I'm not refunding until I get it back and make sure everything checks out. But I have read so many stories about eBay not being very helpful in situations like this, and favoring the buyer in most cases.

Been on eBay for 8 years and never once had any problems, complaints, or anything of the sort. I'm getting quite worked up over this, because now I'm wondering if this is some kind of elaborate scam.

jessica. said:
Even still, that one you sold is probably better than many new ones because it has been fixed with whatever issue plagued the machine in the first place.
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That's how I feel. He insisted on a refund though, and said he will just go buy a new one from Apple...
 
Jason S. said:
That's how I feel. He insisted on a refund though, and said he will just go buy a new one from Apple...
Click to expand...

Do not refund him anything unless you are forced to. I hope PayPal doesn't side with the buyer in this case. You'll likely get the machine back ****ed up in some way.
 
The guy is just being stupid and trying to waste your time and/or take your money. This is the problem with eBay. He got a great deal on that iMac, I'd almost be interested in it for that price! Hopefully good prevails in this situation and everything turns out alright for you. Sorry you have to deal with people like that on eBay.
 
Been an Ebay seller for over 6 years now and ever since they introduced their radical changes to the rules (sometime during 2008/9) they really screwed honest, genuine sellers.

There are so many flaws with ebay where a buyer can scam a seller out of their money. There is no way that you as a seller can guarantee that you will be able t sell your item without being scammed. And thats the bottomline.

Paypal will go into your bank account and remove the funds if worse come to worse. Some people have Auctiva insurance to prevent this from happening but other than that I have stopped selling on Ebay altogether.

Sellers cant even leave negative feedback for buyer WTF?
A buyer can open a claim at any time and once Paypal decides in his favor (which is more often than you'd think) can ship a turd back to you with tracking and he will get his money back.

Its a stupid way of doing business and I have for th elongest time wanted Google or dome other big company to come out with a rival to eBay so that there is som ereal competition in the market.

Hope you sort your issue out and get rid of this stupid buyer.

How many ratings did he have.

There's a new trend of making zero feedback accounts and buying like crazy and then opening claims on every item that ships without tracking.

Its a heaven for scammers if you know how to exploit the rules. :mad:

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jessica. said:
Do not refund him anything unless you are forced to. I hope PayPal doesn't side with the buyer in this case. You'll likely get the machine back ****ed up in some way.
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Yup nothing stops a buyer from opening a claim. If he is approved then he will get his money back and can send a effed up machine back to the OP. and get the money and the Mac.

If not , well he still gotta a deal so I guess for this scammer called Ed it was still worth a try. Nothing to lose by filing a case on Paypal if you're a buyer right? :rolleyes:
 
He actually has 187 feedback, 100% positive, member since 2001.

He just sent me a message saying that he would be happy if I refunded him $325... Meaning he would have gotten this iMac for $1,200!

Yeah it's a refurb, but it is worth way more than that. eBay fees are ridiculous enough... I can't let it go for that much, especially since the whole reason I got rid of this was to get a laptop instead... I still need a computer. And the refurb was only purchased in December.

Incredible. I'm definitely done with eBay after this. I guess I'll take the money I lost on shipping costs as a lesson learned.

I had already told him to send it back. He says he's going to send it back today (Sat.), and will send me the tracking number as soon as he gets it. I really hope there are no more problems this point forward... but I won't hold my breath.

Now I just have to hope that he'll accept the transaction cancellation after all this, so that I get the $100 final fees refunded to me from eBay.
 
You have to be very careful how you handle this. Don't rush into anything.

He is probably a paypal scammer, who will try to "settle" with you for a large percentage refund.

If/when this becomes a formal case, ebay will "investigate" and find in the buyers favour, as they do in every case. This is their way of making ebay 100% safe for buyers at your expense. You will not be able to give the buyer negative feedback. You will not be able to appeal. ebay will take the money from your paypal balance and put it on hold the minute the case is opened, pending decision. If you have removed the money to your bank acc they will attempt to debit it soon as a case is opened.

If it is a paypal scam the buyer may want to settle with you for money. That way he keeps the computer and gets for example 50% back more or less immediately. He can trade the goods and make a profit. If you do not settle he may be able to achieve the return of his money and to keep the iMac. His only obligation to you will be to get a signature that he sent you a box by courier. If it goes that far do not sign for a package and do not take possesion of the package.

If your paypal bank acc is not a current account you use for direct debits for other things I would consider removing all money from it and re routing any payments in. However, you have to be aware that ebay will consider you in default and will start their collection process.

You might be lucky and he is just an unhappy customer who you can deal with. If you are very lucky you might even get your computer back undamaged. However, it is likely that he is a paypal scammer given the sale is of a high value electronic good.

This happened to me with a TV. The feedback looked good also. Ebay feedback means little now. I will now only sell anything expensive on Amazon.

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Jason S. said:
He actually has 187 feedback, 100% positive, member since 2001.

He just sent me a message saying that he would be happy if I refunded him $325... Meaning he would have gotten this iMac for $1,200!

Yeah it's a refurb, but it is worth way more than that. eBay fees are ridiculous enough... I can't let it go for that much, especially since the whole reason I got rid of this was to get a laptop instead... I still need a computer. And the refurb was only purchased in December.

Incredible. I'm definitely done with eBay after this. I guess I'll take the money I lost on shipping costs as a lesson learned.

I had already told him to send it back. He says he's going to send it back today (Sat.), and will send me the tracking number as soon as he gets it. I really hope there are no more problems this point forward... but I won't hold my breath.

Now I just have to hope that he'll accept the transaction cancellation after all this, so that I get the $100 final fees refunded to me from eBay.
Click to expand...

I read your reply after I posted. You didn't tell him it was a refurb? He might be legitimate. I would be very polite and make the return as painless as possible because if he opens a case you will lose your payment amount.

However, I won't be surprised if he opens the case and you get an empty box in return.

The 100% feedback means nothing under the current system. The length of membership might lend him some credibility. You might be lucky.
 
Close your account with paypal

You can stop money from being taken from your paypal account by removing the banking information from the account and closing that paypal account...that way yoy wond be hit with a refund that you did NOT approve.
 
bigjee said:
Its a stupid way of doing business and I have for th elongest time wanted Google or dome other big company to come out with a rival to eBay so that there is som ereal competition in the market.

Amazon.

I have sold a few items on Amazon including my old Apple TV2's since I was scammed on ebay. Now I would not even consider a high value sale or purchase on ebay.

Amazon is controlled by its founder and his motives are not 100% cynical like ebay.

What goes around comes around and what ebay are doing now will not help their business in the long term.

Before I was scammed I was starting to pick up that ebay was becoming dangerous. So will many others.
Click to expand...
 
davidoloan said:
I read your reply after I posted. You didn't tell him it was a refurb? He might be legitimate. I would be very polite and make the return as painless as possible because if he opens a case you will lose your payment amount.

However, I won't be surprised if he opens the case and you get an empty box in return.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was a refurb in the item description, which is why he is saying it was "not as described." I didn't say I purchased it as new, either, though. I marked it as "Used," not realizing there was a "Manufacturer's Refurb" condition on eBay.

I have been very polite. I've apologized several times as well. So far he has not opened a case, and he said he will ship it back today and send me the tracking as soon as he gets it.

First thing I will be checking on the tracking page is the weight of the box.

While much of me believes this will end alright, I plan on taking as many precautions as I can. I am going to open the package in front of the delivery driver before signing for it (I believe I have the right to do that, at least that is what I have found from some quick searching), and record the entire thing on video.

He asked a question about the iMac prior to buying it, and included his phone number. Do you think that adds to his credibility? Phone numbers are easy to get (Google Voice, for example), so probably not.


aleighland said:
You can stop money from being taken from your paypal account by removing the banking information from the account and closing that paypal account...that way yoy wond be hit with a refund that you did NOT approve.
Click to expand...
Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. PayPal puts a 21 day hold on any money I get. I can't touch it at all... Yet another reason I am done with eBay. I always ship with tracking, signature confirmation, etc., and I have nothing but positive feedback, so I have no idea why they feel they need to place this hold on my money -- but they started doing it months ago.
 
aleighland said:
You can stop money from being taken from your paypal account by removing the banking information from the account and closing that paypal account...that way yoy wond be hit with a refund that you did NOT approve.
Click to expand...

Really?

You can close your paypal account effective immediately?

I can't imagine ebay would allow that to happen given the cynical design in the way they create "safety" for buyers? (and scammers too)

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Jason S. said:
I didn't say it was a refurb in the item description, which is why he is saying it was "not as described." I didn't say I purchased it as new, either, though. I marked it as "Used," not realizing there was a "Manufacturer's Refurb" condition on eBay.

I have been very polite. I've apologized several times as well. So far he has not opened a case, and he said he will ship it back today and send me the tracking as soon as he gets it.

First thing I will be checking on the tracking page is the weight of the box.

While much of me believes this will end alright, I plan on taking as many precautions as I can. I am going to open the package in front of the delivery driver before signing for it (I believe I have the right to do that, at least that is what I have found from some quick searching), and record the entire thing on video.

He asked a question about the iMac prior to buying it, and included his phone number. Do you think that adds to his credibility? Phone numbers are easy to get (Google Voice, for example), so probably not.
Click to expand...

Good Luck anyway. You might get lucky.

Is he sending it before you refund him?

If not how are you going to manage that problem?

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Jason S. said:
Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. PayPal puts a 21 day hold on any money I get. I can't touch it at all... Yet another reason I am done with eBay. I always ship with tracking, signature confirmation, etc., and I have nothing but positive feedback, so I have no idea why they feel they need to place this hold on my money -- but they started doing it months ago.
Click to expand...

Google that. They do it to many people. They even put larger inward payments on hold for 6 months while they "investigate" that people are not money laundering etc.

It is probably as simple as they want interest on your money.

Amazon take a while to pay. But they actually want to pay you and do pay you.
 
davidoloan said:
Is he sending it before you refund him? If not how are you going to manage that problem?
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's not getting any refund until I get it back and check it first.

He wants me to refund him the money for shipping it back to me. But according to eBay's policies, even if they forced me to refund him, he would need to send the item back at his expense. Part of me just wants to just reimburse him for it (providing everything checks out okay), because this is already ridiculous enough, and I don't want any more trouble. But then I will have lost $80 on this whole thing as opposed to $40.

I will be looking into Amazon for the future. Don't know why I hadn't considered it before.

Also, thanks everyone who has posted. You've been insightful. I appreciate it.
 
Jason S. said:
Yeah, he's not getting any refund until I get it back and check it first.

He wants me to refund him the money for shipping it back to me. But according to eBay's policies, even if they forced me to refund him, he would need to send the item back at his expense. Part of me just wants to just reimburse him for it (providing everything checks out okay), because this is already ridiculous enough, and I don't want any more trouble. But then I will have lost $80 on this whole thing as opposed to $40.

I will be looking into Amazon for the future. Don't know why I hadn't considered it before.

Also, thanks everyone who has posted. You've been insightful. I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

But if you don't do what he wants he can just open a case. You will lose.

Therefore, as he might be legitimate tread carefully and try to work with him without sending the money to him as well as the computer.

Whatever happens, Ebay will not compensate you.
 
I have sympathy to a point but you should have listed it as Manufacturer refurbished, or, at the very least calculated your items worth based on a refurbished machine from Apple instead of new. Hope it works out for you both, lesson learned.
 
Even if the buyer files a case stating that the item is not as described, PayPal will protect you by making sure you have the item returned to you, and this is confirmed by the tracking showing delivery made to you.

Now here is where it can get interesting, as there are many unscrupulous buyers who return boxes with just some rags/weight/rocks in them. As long as paypal sees 'delivered' they don't care, and you just lost your case.

So take a video with your phone.. the minute you get the package .. record yourself opening the package and making sure that everything is as described. Yes.. quite annoying but you really don't want to take a chance with a big ticket item like this.
 
Problem is that even going to a length such as recording the opening of the delivery from the buyer will not offer you any additional protection. It then becomes a matter for the police, PayPal will continue recovery for the buyer and it will be solely on yourself to prove it was the buyer who acted with criminal intent. Difficult position to be in which makes eBay a solely buyers marketplace.
 
All Taken said:
Problem is that even going to a length such as recording the opening of the delivery from the buyer will not offer you any additional protection. It then becomes a matter for the police, PayPal will continue recovery for the buyer and it will be solely on yourself to prove it was the buyer who acted with criminal intent. Difficult position to be in which makes eBay a solely buyers marketplace.
Click to expand...

Not true. I have done this before, and did experience such a buyer who sent me back a encyclopedia of some sorts instead of the package I expected. I uploaded the video to youtube and sent the link to paypal's resolution specialist .. the claim was then decided in my favor.

The same holds true when I act as a buyer. If I am making a significant purchase, I always record opening a package so that the contents are as described. It's very easy now with an iphone in one's hand, so why not do it and be safe than sorry?
 
Music_Producer said:
Not true. I have done this before, and did experience such a buyer who sent me back a encyclopedia of some sorts instead of the package I expected. I uploaded the video to youtube and sent the link to paypal's resolution specialist .. the claim was then decided in my favor.

The same holds true when I act as a buyer. If I am making a significant purchase, I always record opening a package so that the contents are as described. It's very easy now with an iphone in one's hand, so why not do it and be safe than sorry?
Click to expand...

Completely agree but what if someone just wears a high vis jacket and stages a delivery?
 
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Why in the world did you say you'd take it back?! I would let PayPal handle it because you're likely going to get back the machine in worse condition. I'd be super worried. I hope this works out all the same but I don't think you were entirely wrong here. I know you could have been clearer about the up front purchase by you, but it's not as though you were trying to sell it as new.
 
eBay almost ALWAYS SIDES with the buyer.
Be as polite as possible, and accept the iMac back. He should pay for return shipping, and you need to refund him his full price plus what ever you charged him for shipping.
Selling on eBay sucks! Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore, even if the buyer is a scammer!

I hope you get your computer back, and it isn't broken or infected with a virus ect...
I wouldn't ever sell anything I wasn't willing to lose on eBay . It used to be at least marginally fair, but now they almost always side with the buyer.


If the guy opens a case, and you didn't disclose it was a refurb in the listing, I would be stunned if eBay sided with you. In this case I would be very polite, and hope the buyer doesn't send you a box of rocks with delivery confirmation... As ebay would still side with the buyer as long as he claimed to have returned it with delivery confirmation. ( I am not kidding:mad:)
If you want to be on the safe side, video the package when it arrives TOTALLY unopened, showing the delivery confirmation number and continue video as you open it. eBay for returning merchandise, simply requires a delivery confirmation number.... It really sucks to sell on eBay. When they changed the rules, I stopped selling there.
 
Just goes to show that eBay is not the place to sell anything of real value. It has changed to be totally in the buyer's favor, and naturally there are people who have learned how to work the system to screw the sellers. I gave up on eBay last year.
 
old-wiz said:
Just goes to show that eBay is not the place to sell anything of real value. It has changed to be totally in the buyer's favor, and naturally there are people who have learned how to work the system to screw the sellers. I gave up on eBay last year.
Click to expand...
Nor for buying anything of real value either - Macbook Air eBay Issue

A couple of months ago I got an email from eBay stating that I haven't used my account in a while and if I don't use it within 30 days, they'll delete it.

Guess what? I let them delete it. eBay started getting scary for buying when they made PayPal the only option for paying for stuff in most cases.

eBay is no longer what it was and it's just not worth it.
 
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