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GM is acting like scum

quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
satcomer said:
After hearing/reading about the issue GM To Ask Bankruptcy Court For Lawsuit Protection in their implication in the Faulty Ignition Switch coverup. :mad:

I just know I will never own/buy another GM car!
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You also not going to buy another Toyota? Because they did the same thing with the faulty gas pedal issue a few years back….

Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
yg17 said:
And no, I would never buy a Toyota either. You can't get any more boring than Toyota.
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True. But quite a few people went to excuse Toyota over the gas pedal/floor mat issue. Said it was a government witch hunt, etc. But, Toyota did cut costs. They did try to avoid a recall over the issue, etc. So Toyota is forgiven, GM is roasted. Fact is all companies do this.
 
M

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
quagmire said:
You also not going to buy another Toyota? Because they did the same thing with the faulty gas pedal issue a few years back….

Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
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A significant amount of people probably already forgot about the Toyota pedal problems and in a year or three, most will probably forget about GM's issues as well.

Especially in terms of numbers - there's going to be millions of other cars recalled by other manufacturers this year and the following years.
 
T

turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
686
29
quagmire said:
Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
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Say what ? Toyota declared bankruptcy and was relieved of legacy obligations ?

I don't think so.

-t
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
turtle777 said:
Say what ? Toyota declared bankruptcy and was relieved of legacy obligations ?

I don't think so.

-t
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And if Toyota did go through the same bankruptcy process as GM( and Chrysler) did, I bet they would do the same thing. They are a business. They will do everything within their power to reduce the damage their own idiocy caused. It's morally wrong, etc. But we know big corporations don't do things that are morally right, etc. Or else they would have recalled the defective pedals(Toyota) and ignition switches( GM) in a timely manner( or of course fix the issue before the car entered production like with the Cobalt…) and claim responsibility instead of hiding behind a technicality.

What I can't stand is the double standard. Toyota is forgiven, blame is on the government and called a witch hunt, etc. GM is roasted, called a POS, etc. GM deserves it, but the public shouldn't be going, " I will never buy GM again because of them hiding this issue that killed people" while driving a 2014 Toyota Camry after Toyota tried to hide their defective gas pedals that killed people.
 
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turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
686
29
I don't think what GM is doing is ethical or great, but at this point, it's legal and lawful.

What pisses me off is that they took the government's money.
That should have never happened. They should have had a REAL bankruptcy.

-t
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
turtle777 said:
I don't think what GM is doing is ethical or great, but at this point, it's legal and lawful.

What pisses me off is that they took the government's money.
That should have never happened. They should have had a REAL bankruptcy.

-t
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It was a real bankruptcy. Just instead of the banks, etc financing GM through the process, it was the government. Why? Because the banks were also failing due to the recession. The only bankruptcy GM would have gone through was Chapter 7 without the governments support.

What happened was the government created a new company. This new company bought General Motors Corporations good assets. GM Corporation became Motors Liquidation and stayed in bankruptcy for several years before finally closing down after the liquidation was finished. The company that the government formed was renamed GM Company once the sale was complete. It was the same process Chrysler went through before GM did.
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
ucfgrad93 said:
Did Toyota ignore it for 10 years like GM did?
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No, but to me that doesn't matter. I may be a bit overly cynical, but if Toyota could have gotten away with it for 10 years, they would have. I just don't have that much faith in corporations in doing the right thing if it costs them more money than dealing with the issue on an individual basis whether it is when it breaks or when they settle a lawsuit.
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
turtle777 said:
Well, real, maybe, but not an ordinary one.

Bond holders got shafted, and Unions were the preferred creditors.
Pretty much the opposite of a normal "real" bankruptcy.

-t
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Bondholders got shafted because they were not the biggest creditor anymore. The government was, thus they had the power in the direction of the proceedings.

I personally liked the VEBA fund( which pays for the unions healthcare) getting a 10% stake in the company. It would act as a check against the UAW. If the UAW did anything to hurt GM's stock price, they just hurt themselves because they just reduced the value of their healthcare fund due to the reduced stock value. Bondholders of old GM also got a 10% stake in new GM.
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
ucfgrad93 said:
In spite of your opinion that it doesn't matter that GM knew about it for 10 years, I think that is the main reason why most view GM as scum.
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GM has deserved to be seen as scum. I haven't been arguing against that. I have been arguing over the double standard with Toyota and their own scandal with public opinion. Who knows in a few years maybe people will forget this scandal like malman states like people have with Toyota. Maybe they will think it was a government witch hunt like some people believe with Toyota. Who knows.

Both companies knew of problems that ended up getting people killed. Both companies fought tooth and nail to prevent recalls from happening. The length of time of when they knew of the issue is irrelevant due to that in my view. Both tried to hide them. One was just better at hiding it for longer.
 
quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,908
2,330
MacNut said:
Did Toyota really cover it up. Didn't they announce investigations right away?
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Documents and memo's leaked have shown that they did know about it since at least 2007 if not earlier if I am remembering correctly. They only came out when these accidents gained national attention.

They also got the Audi treatment of FUD being spread about the drive by wire system malfunctioning.
 
jca24

jca24

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2010
825
129
DFW
a little off topic

Screw GM and screw their unions, buy Honda's, Toyota's or any other brand that are built in the US by non union labor!! ;)
 
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