My Macbook Pro Retina with a 4K display

anduzz · Jul 18, 2014

Hi!

I am not sure if I posted this in the right category, but I will ask anyways.

Last fall (2013) I bought the new MBP Retina 13" with Intel Iris, and it is still the newest macbook pro retina version. Yesterday I bought the Philips 4k 28" monitor, which I am going to use on my office. But when I connect them together, the cursor hangs, and lags, and the general responsive time on both keyboard and cursor about .5 seconds. I am using the HDMI output on the retina, and the HDMI input on the screen.

I think it is weird if my Macbook doesnt support it properly, since it is the newest model, with 16GB RAM and 2,6 GHz.

Is there anything I am doing wrong, or should I use another connection than HDMI?

hamiltonDSi · Jul 18, 2014

anduzz said:
I think it is weird if my Macbook doesnt support it properly, since it is the newest model, with 16GB RAM and 2,6 GHz.

RAM and CPU are not that important.
I think Intel Iris is having trouble with powering 2 monster displays (the built in Retina 2560 x 1600 and the external 4k)
Keep in mind that Iris is a chipset, not a GPU.
And the 13" has the basic one unlike the 15" which has Crystalwell with Iris Pro.

anduzz · Jul 18, 2014

hamiltonDSi said:
RAM and CPU are not that important.
I think Intel Iris is having trouble with powering 2 monster displays (the built in Retina 2560 x 1600 and the external 4k)
Keep in mind that Iris is a chipset, not a GPU.
And the 13" has the basic one unlike the 15" which has Crystalwell with Iris Pro.

Ooh okay. Is there anything I can do, to fix this, other than buying an 15"?

x3n0n1c · Jul 18, 2014

anduzz said:
Hi!

I am not sure if I posted this in the right category, but I will ask anyways.

Last fall (2013) I bought the new MBP Retina 13" with Intel Iris, and it is still the newest macbook pro retina version. Yesterday I bought the Philips 4k 28" monitor, which I am going to use on my office. But when I connect them together, the cursor hangs, and lags, and the general responsive time on both keyboard and cursor about .5 seconds. I am using the HDMI output on the retina, and the HDMI input on the screen.

I think it is weird if my Macbook doesnt support it properly, since it is the newest model, with 16GB RAM and 2,6 GHz.

Is there anything I am doing wrong, or should I use another connection than HDMI?

You have to use Display Port. HDMI in it's current spec is not capable of sending out a 4k signal at 60hz, only 30hz.

You may be misinterpreting this lower framerate as increased input latency.

anduzz · Jul 18, 2014

x3n0n1c said:
You have to use Display Port. HDMI in it's current spec is not capable of sending out a 4k signal at 60hz, only 30hz.

You may be misinterpreting this lower framerate as increased input latency.

So with other words, I should use the display Port cable? The screen has a display port input, but my mac does only have minidisplayport output. Does it mean I need an adapter between them?

Or maybe just this: http://www.accellcables.com/products/ultraav-mini-displayport-to-displayport-1-2-cable

hamiltonDSi · Jul 18, 2014

anduzz said:
Ooh okay. Is there anything I can do, to fix this, other than buying an 15"?

You can try using it in clamshell and see if the performance is better.
If you use your computer in clamshell mode the Retina display won't be powerd on so Iris will drive only the external 4k display.

If the performance is the same, use the MiniDisplay Port, like x3n0n1c recommended.

thejadedmonkey · Jul 18, 2014

Use Windows 8.1. Honestly, use Windows. OS X has issues with 4k displays, and I believe if you do get it to work, it doesn't go over a 30hz refresh rate.

bennibeef · Jul 18, 2014

thejadedmonkey said:
Use Windows 8.1. Honestly, use Windows. OS X has issues with 4k displays, and I believe if you do get it to work, it doesn't go over a 30hz refresh rate.

Yea change to windows just to use a 4k display, and now when you are in windows you have weird scaling.

OSX can do 4k at 60hz no problem (the last update fixed something there for some monitors) but the real point is use displayport. get a minidisplayport to displayport cable best rated at displayport 1.2 and this should work. There is the possibility that the integrated graphic chip cant handle a 4k display but I am not sure. But over hdmi its only 30hz and you have the lower framerate which looks like its lagging.

x3n0n1c · Jul 18, 2014

anduzz said:
So with other words, I should use the display Port cable? The screen has a display port input, but my mac does only have minidisplayport output. Does it mean I need an adapter between them?

Or maybe just this: http://www.accellcables.com/products/ultraav-mini-displayport-to-displayport-1-2-cable

Purchase this:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=8119&seq=1&format=2

It is a great, inexpensive adapter that will allow you to output all the popular digital connections. I've used it for over a year and it works great.

khabboub · Jul 18, 2014

x3n0n1c said:
Purchase this:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=8119&seq=1&format=2

It is a great, inexpensive adapter that will allow you to output all the popular digital connections. I've used it for over a year and it works great.

DO NOT get that. it only supports display port 1.1 so the max resolution you would be able to get would be 2560x1600.

you need something that supports display port 1.2

you will want to get something like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004065DAC/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

i think you already linked to this exact cable anyways.

TheIguana · Jul 18, 2014

bennibeef said:
OSX can do 4k at 60hz no problem (the last update fixed something there for some monitors).

OS X isn't the issue here, the OPs 13" rMBP is. 4k is only supported at 30Hz as a limitation of the U-class Intel processor in the 13", you need an H-class processor to support 60Hz 4k output with Intel's current chips - that only comes on the 15" rMBPs.

khabboub said:
you need something that supports display port 1.2

Even then the OPs 13" rMBP doesn't fully support 4k resolutions. The U-class processors that it uses maxes out officially at 30Hz for 4k - unofficially it can be pushed to ~52Hz but not full 60Hz and even then your pushing the graphics chipset pretty well to its max.

If the OP is looking to get full 4k support at 60Hz then they should be looking towards purchasing a 15" rMBP or a Mac Pro.

x3n0n1c · Jul 18, 2014

khabboub said:
DO NOT get that. it only supports display port 1.1 so the max resolution you would be able to get would be 2560x1600.

you need something that supports display port 1.2

you will want to get something like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004065DAC/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

i think you already linked to this exact cable anyways.

I missed the 1.1 spec part, good catch.

As for your lin, 4th review down.

"CAUTION! This cable is the older DisplayPort 1.1a spec.
Amazon description is not clear on this."

Cheers.

eneisch · Jul 18, 2014

khabboub said:
DO NOT get that. it only supports display port 1.1 so the max resolution you would be able to get would be 2560x1600.

you need something that supports display port 1.2

you will want to get something like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004065DAC/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

i think you already linked to this exact cable anyways.

Actually your Amazon link is for a 1.1 cable. The OP's link is for a 1.2 cable by the same manufacturer. Amazon also sells the 1.2 cable and it only costs a dollar more than the 1.1.

http://www.amazon.com/Accell-B143B-007J-UltraAV-DisplayPort-6-6-Feet/dp/B00A7R9I22/ref=pd_cp_e_0

bennibeef · Jul 18, 2014

TheIguana said:
OS X isn't the issue here, the OPs 13" rMBP is. 4k is only supported at 30Hz as a limitation of the U-class Intel processor in the 13", you need an H-class processor to support 60Hz 4k output with Intel's current chips - that only comes on the 15" rMBPs.

Even then the OPs 13" rMBP doesn't fully support 4k resolutions. The U-class processors that it uses maxes out officially at 30Hz for 4k - unofficially it can be pushed to ~52Hz but not full 60Hz and even then your pushing the graphics chipset pretty well to its max.

If the OP is looking to get full 4k support at 60Hz then they should be looking towards purchasing a 15" rMBP or a Mac Pro.

Thanks for clarification! I wasnt sure if the 13'' is capable of driving it like my post said just the way to do it if it did

khabboub · Jul 18, 2014

x3n0n1c said:
I missed the 1.1 spec part, good catch.

As for your lin, 4th review down.

"CAUTION! This cable is the older DisplayPort 1.1a spec.
Amazon description is not clear on this."

Cheers.

eneisch said:
Actually your Amazon link is for a 1.1 cable. The OP's link is for a 1.2 cable by the same manufacturer. Amazon also sells the 1.2 cable and it only costs a dollar more than the 1.1.

http://www.amazon.com/Accell-B143B-007J-UltraAV-DisplayPort-6-6-Feet/dp/B00A7R9I22/ref=pd_cp_e_0

gosh darnit i love this community. good catch guys.

anduzz · Jul 19, 2014

TheIguana said:
OS X isn't the issue here, the OPs 13" rMBP is. 4k is only supported at 30Hz as a limitation of the U-class Intel processor in the 13", you need an H-class processor to support 60Hz 4k output with Intel's current chips - that only comes on the 15" rMBPs.

Even then the OPs 13" rMBP doesn't fully support 4k resolutions. The U-class processors that it uses maxes out officially at 30Hz for 4k - unofficially it can be pushed to ~52Hz but not full 60Hz and even then your pushing the graphics chipset pretty well to its max.

If the OP is looking to get full 4k support at 60Hz then they should be looking towards purchasing a 15" rMBP or a Mac Pro.

Thank you all for answering. I will order the 1.2 Displayport cable to see how it will work, and I will post the result here

MartinAppleGuy · Jul 19, 2014

So does Iris really handle 4K? Not just 4K, but still run smooth when watching 4K content or editing?

Hustler1337 · Jul 19, 2014

Sorry to interrupt guys, but I was wondering, does the 15" Retina Macbook Pro with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M support 4K display?

And if so, how is the performance?

Thanks

anduzz · Jul 19, 2014

Hustler1337 said:
Sorry to interrupt guys, but I was wondering, does the 15" Retina Macbook Pro with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M support 4K display?

And if so, how is the performance?

Thanks

Hey Hustler.

I friend of mine is bringing his 15 inch macbook pro retina over for testing tonight. Ill let you know

anduzz · Jul 19, 2014

MartinAppleGuy said:
So does Iris really handle 4K? Not just 4K, but still run smooth when watching 4K content or editing?

When I watch Netflix, and live TV-streaming, it runs perfectly. But the delay is still there, but since both video and audio is delayed, it is still synced.

WardC · Jul 19, 2014

Oh I see...you said 13-inch, not 15-inch. The 15-inch model with the 2GB of VRAM is equipped to Power a 4K display at full resolution, given that you are running OS X 10.9.3 or above.

The 13" model, however, is not. It is not approved to run 4K and if you try it, you will have problems like you are describing. The Iris graphics can run an external at 2560x1600 maximum resolution. That IS THE MAXIMUM. NO HIGHER THAN THIS.

Hustler1337 · Jul 20, 2014

anduzz said:
Hey Hustler.

I friend of mine is bringing his 15 inch macbook pro retina over for testing tonight. Ill let you know

Just wondering how the test went? (if your friend came over)

Thanks

kwijbo · Jul 20, 2014

WardC said:
Oh I see...you said 13-inch, not 15-inch. The 15-inch model with the 2GB of VRAM is equipped to Power a 4K display at full resolution, given that you are running OS X 10.9.3 or above.

The 13" model, however, is not. It is not approved to run 4K and if you try it, you will have problems like you are describing. The Iris graphics can run an external at 2560x1600 maximum resolution. That IS THE MAXIMUM. NO HIGHER THAN THIS.

Not quite...

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht6008

All 13" and 15" Late 2013 rMBP models can output 4k at 30 Hz. This is of course not at the optimal 60 Hz but several users have reported it working at the lower refresh rate and depending on the activity some say it is usable.

Now for the optimal refresh rate of 60 Hz, as noted in the Apple KB, a 15" Late 2013 rMBP (either discrete or Iris Pro) is the only notebook that can do so.

Finally, Iris is not limited to 2560 x 1600. It is 3200 x 2000 @60 Hz (via DP), as indicated here:

https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/quick-reference-guide-to-intel-processor-graphics

Now, 3200 x 2000 @ 60 Hz (~9.2 Gbps) is quite a bit more data than 3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz (~5.9 Gbps) so surely Iris is capable of more than that if one were so inclined to try an unsupported workaround...which jonisign has indeed done and shared his results here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/19137553/

This doesn't touch the SST vs MST issue, however the last few updates to OS X have improved the situation and likewise SST displays have slowly started to trickle out so hopefully by the time Yosemite comes out we'll be closer to worry free plug and play 4k.

Intelligent · Jul 20, 2014

thejadedmonkey said:
a few lines of text

Would you stop it with your windows propaganda? Seriously i see you in a lot of threads when someone requests help with mac or OS X and you just try to convert them into a windows user. He might need OS X at work? He might not want to buy windows? He might not have enough space to install windows? He might not even want windows? If he wanted windows I'm pretty sure he would have already have it.

thejadedmonkey · Jul 20, 2014

Intelligent said:
Would you stop it with your windows propaganda? Seriously i see you in a lot of threads when someone requests help with mac or OS X and you just try to convert them into a windows user. He might need OS X at work? He might not want to buy windows? He might not have enough space to install windows? He might not even want windows? If he wanted windows I'm pretty sure he would have already have it.

When Apple can release a version of OS X that works, I'll stop recommending a competing OS. Until then, I have no qualms with recommending an OS that actually works.

And so there's no confusion, when I say "works", what I mean is:

It handles multiple monitors properly.
It handles email properly. That is to say, mail.app can check for unread emails.
It is capable of running without crazy lag on non SSD equipped computers.

To date, the last version of OS X that met all three of these (IMO quite reasonable) requirements was Snow Leopard. I'd like to say that I have high hopes for Yosemite, but early signs point to it looking like crap on non-Retina displays.

My Macbook Pro Retina with a 4K display

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