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Future iPhone GPS as bad as N95 GPS?

lellis2k

lellis2k

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 2, 2007
304
80
Leeds, UK
With the rumours of 3g/gps iphone getting stronger every day i'm starting to wonder whether to upgrade or not. I bought my UK 16gb iphone around 3 months ago now, and while I'm not too bothered bout 3G (though it would be nice) I would really like to have gps on me at all times.

However, a strange sense of deja vous hit me today, I've been excited about gps on my phone before, only to have it be a complete shambles. My last phone (N95) had gps, but only ever worked once in the 8 months I used it, that was on the m25 for about 30 seconds.

Other than that it could never get a signal, even with clear skies waiting for half an hour. I wasn't the only one, i knew 3 other people with N95s and all had the same problem. Not sure if this was a UK thing or what but I hope the iPhone's version is more comparable to my tomtom than my N95.

What do you think looks more likely?
 
I don't think it will have GPS personally, but I hope if they do include it that it will be fully functional.
 
If iPhone won't have its own GPS receiver built in, I hope it will at least be able to receive data from a blue tooth GPSr like on my Treo 700P. TomTom responded to my email saying that they have no plans on writing their software/maps for iPhone. I hope that others do.
 
jeffreyfort said:
If iPhone won't have its own GPS receiver built in, I hope it will at least be able to receive data from a blue tooth GPSr like on my Treo 700P. TomTom responded to my email saying that they have no plans on writing their software/maps for iPhone. I hope that others do.
Click to expand...

Garmin will probably be in on it, that's why.
 
On the N95 the initial implementation had problems, but after a few updates (you know, not only the iphone gets updates) it works brilliantly, and the slow fix times that were present originally are gone now, due to the addition of AGPS.
 
I doubt Tomtom will port their software over to the iphone as last time I heard they were "involved" in producing their own mobile with inbuilt GPS (and aren't Garmin as well?).
To be honest you don't actually want the iphone to have a built in GPS receiver chip since for car use (when most often used) the iphone must have a decent view of the sky = mounting it quite forward on top of the dash...not always convenient.
Far better to have a seperate bluetooth gps receiver and mount the iphone in a better position.
 
senorFunkyPants said:
I doubt Tomtom will port their software over to the iphone as last time I heard they were "involved" in producing their own mobile with inbuilt GPS (and aren't Garmin as well?).
To be honest you don't actually want the iphone to have a built in GPS receiver chip since for car use (when most often used) the iphone must have a decent view of the sky = mounting it quite forward on top of the dash...not always convenient.
Far better to have a seperate bluetooth gps receiver and mount the iphone in a better position.
Click to expand...

You can find Tomtom software on phones. HTC/Vodafone give you Tomtom GPS on their TyTn 2 1615 model.
 
If the 2nd generation iPhone has half the capabilities people on here say it will, the starting price will be eleventy-billion dollars.

Here's what we know the next-gen phone will have: 3G. Everything else is a guess. I think it would be insanity to not add more storage, but who knows. So pretend like the new $399 iPhone will have 3G and 16GB of storage. That's already a couple of big upgrades for no extra cost. You start adding in GPS and that's got to be a lot of dough spent on a single upgrade for something so relatively cheap.

Therefore, I'm still skeptical about GPS coming on 2nd generation phone. Maybe they will make me look dumb because a lot of other smartphones have it. But there's a lot of stuff other smartphones don't have that the iPhone does (like it's a frickin' iPod). So don't get your hopes up on GPS after the big deal about Google Maps' "Find Me" feature. I don't think that was done for just 6 months of pizzaz. But what do I know? :)
 
Michael CM1 said:
If the 2nd generation iPhone has half the capabilities people on here say it will, the starting price will be eleventy-billion dollars.

Here's what we know the next-gen phone will have: 3G. Everything else is a guess. I think it would be insanity to not add more storage, but who knows. So pretend like the new $399 iPhone will have 3G and 16GB of storage. That's already a couple of big upgrades for no extra cost. You start adding in GPS and that's got to be a lot of dough spent on a single upgrade for something so relatively cheap.

Therefore, I'm still skeptical about GPS coming on 2nd generation phone. Maybe they will make me look dumb because a lot of other smartphones have it. But there's a lot of stuff other smartphones don't have that the iPhone does (like it's a frickin' iPod). So don't get your hopes up on GPS after the big deal about Google Maps' "Find Me" feature. I don't think that was done for just 6 months of pizzaz. But what do I know? :)
Click to expand...

Thinking the same thing here, they wouldn't roll out the new gmail features if they were going to support native GPS.
 
I find the N95 a bit slow to acquire a lock (couple of minutes), but it's brilliant when it does.

Afaik, it doesn't use the best gps chips out there. Sirf III is supposed to be faster and use less energy.

I'd guess the iPhone implementation of gps will be an add-on kit (receiver and a dvd with maps), and software on all phones will be upgraded to allow them to recognise bluetooth receivers.

Michael CM1 said:
... So don't get your hopes up on GPS after the big deal about Google Maps' "Find Me" feature. I don't think that was done for just 6 months of pizzaz. But what do I know? :)
Click to expand...

That's available on any Symbian phone too, and gps software coexists with it. I dont think they're mutually exclusive
 
Yeah, the N95 GPS was horrible until they released the v12 and then the v20 firmware. Now it's pretty good as it uses AGPS for faster lock on. I use it in my car now and have no need for a Tom Tom anymore. I can also use Google Maps with GPS which is really, really useful when you're on foot.

If the iPhone can replicate that functon then it's onto a winner.
 
lellis2k said:
However, a strange sense of deja vous hit me today, I've been excited about gps on my phone before, only to have it be a complete shambles. My last phone (N95) had gps, but only ever worked once in the 8 months I used it, that was on the m25 for about 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

I know some people who have the provider branded N95 and that has it's own old version of the firmware and they all report crap GPS among many things. Mine is up branded and latest firmware and is as good a my TomTom and I can get a lock in under 15 seconds if outside ( about 30 in the car). My mate 'flashed' his Orange branded one to remove the branding and updated the firmware and now his is fast too.
 
I haven't seen any rumors that the next iPhone will have integrated GPS aside from the speculation on these forums. I really doubt that Apple would add this feature in as it would add to the bulk of the device and drain battery. Should Apple have any extra space on the next iPhone it's more likely they would devote that to additional memory rather than GPS. With version 2.0 of the iPhone software supporting more applications the iPhone will need additional memory in order to store those apps. Additionally, if the iPhone is ever to be a true replacement for the HD based media players like the iPod it will need to get into at least the 32 gig range of internal memory to hit the sweet spot with consumers.

Also, it's only a small percentage of users who either would benefit or desire this feature and adding to the cost of the iPhone to appease these users is probably not something Apple will go for, especially with their minimilistic design preferences. The iPhone is not like the Nokia N95 fore several reasons, but mostly the N95 is a niche, high end device that is a technological Swiss army knife. The iPhone is targeted at a different demographic. While some iPhone users would find the N95 to be interchangeable with their iPhone most would see the N95 as too complex and overdesigned.

I would speculate that Apple would defer integrating GPS into the iPhone and instead allow 3rd parties add this functionality to the iPhone through a Bluetooth connected GPS puck such as those that already exist on the market. This would give the subset of the iPhone market that desires this functionality the capability to use it in conjunction with the iPhone.
 
Someone mentioned that the new 2.0 firmware's Google Maps has the ability to follow you as you move.

I think this is almost useless without GPS. Maybe a sign that GPS really is coming to the iPhone (or at least bluetooth gps support)?

Personally, I'd rather have GPS than 3G....
 
G4R2 said:
Also, it's only a small percentage of users who either would benefit or desire this feature and adding to the cost of the iPhone to appease these users is probably not something Apple will go for, especially with their minimilistic design preferences. The iPhone is not like the Nokia N95 fore several reasons, but mostly the N95 is a niche, high end device that is a technological Swiss army knife. The iPhone is targeted at a different demographic. While some iPhone users would find the N95 to be interchangeable with their iPhone most would see the N95 as too complex and overdesigned.
Click to expand...

GPS is mainstream, mobile video is niche. And Nokia N95 is not niche. The N-series sold 37 million handsets last year. If fact, touch screen phones are niche - the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billion phones sold last year had no touch screens at all.
 
Archie- said:
GPS is mainstream, mobile video is niche. And Nokia N95 is not niche. The N-series sold 37 million handsets last year. If fact, touch screen phones are niche - the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billion phones sold last year had no touch screens at all.
Click to expand...

Calling the N95 a niche device isn't a put down- It is what it is. Most cellphone users simply aren't walking around with N95's or anything like it. But I'll defer to other reviewers, such as this one from Brighthand:

"The N95 is truly a different kind of mobile device. One where there are literally no limits on how you can apply it. It does try to reach too far for some people, and yet, because it can, the N95 is a niche device of its own."

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13078

CNet was a bit more skeptical, suggesting that the demographic for the phone is "gadget lovers and tech enthusiasts out there that will plunk down the Benjamins for this high-end phone."

Considering that most cell phones sell in the $200 range, the price of the N95 does not make this a mainstream cell phone by any means.

GPS is a niche feature on cell phones. Whereas video playback has been a feature that has been increasingly incorporated into cellphones, including the addition of services by providers of live video streaming, true GPS has not made much of a dent in the cell phone market. There are some location based technologies that use cell towers to triangulate the position of the phone and is offered by some cell phone manufacturers, but true GPS remains fleeting for many reasons namely cost, battery drain, and component size.

This can be tested empirically- Simply walk around and see how many phones contain GPS and how many phones have some form of video playback. I just performed that test and considering that I work in science in a very high tech region of the country you would think that the sampling would be skewed towards high tech phones. However, of all the phones in my work area and lab none, not a single one, contained GPS and roughly 90% were capable of video playback, whether it was being used for that or not. I can't recall ever seeing a cell phone with true integrated GPS.

Regardless, squeezing GPS into something with the iPhone's form factor and contrary to Apple's direction with the device isn't likely to happen soon, especially since it is a sideshow for both users and what Apple intends for this device. That's not to say it wouldn't be nice to have- The limitation isn't desirability, simply technical feasibility.
 
lellis2k said:
With the rumours of 3g/gps iphone getting stronger every day i'm starting to wonder whether to upgrade or not. I bought my UK 16gb iphone around 3 months ago now, and while I'm not too bothered bout 3G (though it would be nice) I would really like to have gps on me at all times.

However, a strange sense of deja vous hit me today, I've been excited about gps on my phone before, only to have it be a complete shambles. My last phone (N95) had gps, but only ever worked once in the 8 months I used it, that was on the m25 for about 30 seconds.

Other than that it could never get a signal, even with clear skies waiting for half an hour. I wasn't the only one, i knew 3 other people with N95s and all had the same problem. Not sure if this was a UK thing or what but I hope the iPhone's version is more comparable to my tomtom than my N95.

What do you think looks more likely?
Click to expand...

If the iPhone were to include GPS one biggie for me would be that the GPS chip does not suck out the battery. Other than that 3G seems attractive to me. If 3G does come out I'll probably wait till September
 
G4R2 said:
Calling the N95 a niche device isn't a put down- It is what it is. Most cellphone users simply aren't walking around with N95's or anything like it. But I'll defer to other reviewers, such as this one from Brighthand:

"The N95 is truly a different kind of mobile device. One where there are literally no limits on how you can apply it. It does try to reach too far for some people, and yet, because it can, the N95 is a niche device of its own."

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13078

CNet was a bit more skeptical, suggesting that the demographic for the phone is "gadget lovers and tech enthusiasts out there that will plunk down the Benjamins for this high-end phone."

Considering that most cell phones sell in the $200 range, the price of the N95 does not make this a mainstream cell phone by any means.

GPS is a niche feature on cell phones. Whereas video playback has been a feature that has been increasingly incorporated into cellphones, including the addition of services by providers of live video streaming, true GPS has not made much of a dent in the cell phone market. There are some location based technologies that use cell towers to triangulate the position of the phone and is offered by some cell phone manufacturers, but true GPS remains fleeting for many reasons namely cost, battery drain, and component size.

This can be tested empirically- Simply walk around and see how many phones contain GPS and how many phones have some form of video playback. I just performed that test and considering that I work in science in a very high tech region of the country you would think that the sampling would be skewed towards high tech phones. However, of all the phones in my work area and lab none, not a single one, contained GPS and roughly 90% were capable of video playback, whether it was being used for that or not. I can't recall ever seeing a cell phone with true integrated GPS.

Regardless, squeezing GPS into something with the iPhone's form factor and contrary to Apple's direction with the device isn't likely to happen soon, especially since it is a sideshow for both users and what Apple intends for this device. That's not to say it wouldn't be nice to have- The limitation isn't desirability, simply technical feasibility.
Click to expand...

Thats a very US centric view. Seeing how the N95 sold more than a million phones in 7 months in UK and "and has regularly topped retail best sellers lists" its far from niche. I cant turn around and not see a N95 variant these days. Its a very popular phone. In fact, per capita, its sold a lot faster than the iPhone.

Not having ANY phones with GPS around you says a lot more about the US market than anything else. And even there I am surprised you have not seen a HTC Mongul, Blackjack II, Blackberry Curve, Helio Drift or Motorola Q9.

You may need to get out more.
 
G4R2 said:
Calling the N95 a niche device isn't a put down- It is what it is. Most cellphone users simply aren't walking around with N95's or anything like it....
Click to expand...

I see several N95's every day about the street (not including my own). To date I've seen one iPhone. I know the iPhone hasn't been available (officially) here for long, but the fact remains, the N95 a popular phone.
 
I don't think iPhone2 will contain integrated GPS. I do think that the firmware and the BT will allow for the receipt of GPSr data via BT and that there will be software available that will perform GPS functions with that data. I hope that there is TomTom-like software and maps that will do street navigation and provide turn-by-turn directions verbally. (and I hate to keep saying this, but "just like I currently do on my Treo 700P with TomTom")
 
and one other thing, I don't think I want iPhone to integrate a GPSr. Not all GPSr's are created equal. I have a USGlobalsat BT GPSr that is significantly better than the analogous unit I received with TomTom Navigator.
 
I think it will run on Google Maps from WiFi hotspot locations, GPS will drain the battery too much, they have already had to sort the 3G batter drain, they are not going to add another one!
 
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