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Opinion: If the new iPhone (3G) has a GPS, how will it be offered?

essential

essential

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 8, 2008
255
153
I was at a bar last night with my friends, and one of them has an LG Voyager. I really like the Voyager because in addition to having a large touch screen, it has a keyboard, 3G ability, and a GPS, all things the new iPhone will have, ideally.

I know the new iPhone has almost no chance of having a slide out keyboard, but it will have 3G ability, and it has a very good chance of having a GPS, which is honestly the feature I am most excited about. GPS's are even coming out in reasonable priced cameras now for automatic geotagging of pictures, so I don't think it's cost prohibitive to put a GPS in the new iPhone.

While playing with the LG Voyage, I touched the “VZ Navigation” icon because I wanted to see how a GPS on a phone worked/looked only to be prompted with a, “this service has expired” screen. I asked my friend, and he said Verizon charges $9.99 a month, or $2.99 a day for use of the GPS. I was very disappointed to find that out, because it made me think that if the new iPhone has a GPS, it might not be free.

Now, I know the actual use of the GPS satellites is free, you just need an actual GPS receiver. Many GPS devices with receivers, such as the TomTom and Garmin units, just have the maps and a turn by turn direction program, but the use of the GPS itself is free, there are no monthly charges. The only services with monthly fee’s that I am aware of are the ones with live/updated traffic information and features like that.

If Apple includes a GPS in the new iPhone, the use of the GPS itself should be free in my opinion. Basically you should be able to use Google Maps, and there should be a dot on the map that shows the location of your iPhone. The dot should move on the map as your iPhone moves, say as you are driving. If you plot driving directions, Google Maps will show you the way, and your dot moves on the map as you drive, but if you miss a turn it shouldn’t prompt you that you missed the turn, the dot should just show where you are, plain and simple. That feature should be free.

If they want to make extra money on the GPS feature, there should be an optional fee to get extras such as live/updated traffic information and possibly turn by turn directions.

If they totally disable the GPS feature unless you are paying a monthly fee like the Voyager, I would be very upset. I could buy a separate GPS device now that doesn’t require a monthly fee, but the whole point is to have as much as you can in one device. If the iPhone comes out in a 32GB, with 3G, and at least a practically functional GPS like I described above (the free version), then that cuts three devices down to one in most instances.

If they offer a GPS, what is your opinion on how it is offered?
 
It is often the maps that cost money. In Apples case this is already solved with google maps. Remember Iphone already have a Position system, Gps chip will just make this more accurate (I.e. it will work).
 
I think this is a case where the carrier would normally have some input.

Carriers lock down GPS so that they can sell you the navigation and other LBS (Location Based) Services such as realtime finding of family and friends. LBS are the hot new thing.

OTOH, Google really wants GPS everywhere.. it makes their ads worth lots more to be super targeted. Perhaps they'll pay for the ability, just as they currently pay for people using map information via Google Maps.
 
A-GPS. Maps by Google for a start. But then Apple could always buy the maps through acquiring a company that has some maps. (Didn't Broadcomm do that?).
 
Applejuiced said:
Every us carrier charges a fee for gps use on cellphones so if its offered I dont see it beeing free. But I rather use my garmin instead of paying monthly and draining my iPhone battery
Click to expand...

I don't see that model working globally - in the UK, GPS on mobile devices just depends on you purchasing navigation software (e.g. TomTom) at a one-off cost of say 50 quid, then that's it. It's up to you whether you want to pay to update your maps in the future, but there's no monthly cost for provision of GPS itself.
 
Applejuiced said:
But I rather use my garmin instead of paying monthly and draining my iPhone battery
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you be able to turn a GPS on/off to have it as a feature only when you want it? I'm not sure how GPS phones work, so I really don't know, but that seems logical/easy enough. That said, I think phone carriers will charge for any service that you recieve, especially something like GPS. They may include it with an all inclusive plan, but unfortunately, I'd beleive we'd have to pay for it.

Stupid nickel and dimers...
 
A one time fee sounds better but in the US they dont usually do that. Average monthly charges range from $5-12 on most wireless devices.

ansalmo said:
I don't see that model working globally - in the UK, GPS on mobile devices just depends on you purchasing navigation software (e.g. TomTom) at a one-off cost of say 50 quid, then that's it. It's up to you whether you want to pay to update your maps in the future, but there's no monthly cost for provision of GPS itself.
Click to expand...
 
I hear you. Hope theres an off button so it doesnt waste baterry. If its a monthly feature I wouldn't bother with Gps

Tilpots said:
Wouldn't you be able to turn a GPS on/off to have it as a feature only when you want it? I'm not sure how GPS phones work, so I really don't know, but that seems logical/easy enough. That said, I think phone carriers will charge for any service that you recieve, especially something like GPS. They may include it with an all inclusive plan, but unfortunately, I'd beleive we'd have to pay for it.

Stupid nickel and dimers...
Click to expand...
 
Applejuiced said:
A one time fee sounds better but in the US they dont usually do that. Average monthly charges range from $5-12 on most wireless devices.
Click to expand...

While I still think the basic feature of the GPS should be free, and you should only pay for the extra options, a one time fee that is around the price of what a cheap separate GPS device would cost might be reasonable. If there is a monthly fee, I wouldn't want to pay for than $4.99, and hopefully they include it with the data package, for example:

$20
Text Messages: 200
Internet: Unlimited

$25
GPS Ability
Text Messages: 200
Internet: Unlimited

$30.00
Text Messages: 1500
Internet: Unlimited

$35
GPS Ability
Text Messages: 1500
Internet: Unlimited

$40.00
Text Messages: Unlimited
Internet: Unlimited

$45.00
GPS Ability
Text Messages: Unlimited
Internet: Unlimited
 
ansalmo said:
I don't see that model working globally - in the UK, GPS on mobile devices just depends on you purchasing navigation software (e.g. TomTom) at a one-off cost of say 50 quid, then that's it. It's up to you whether you want to pay to update your maps in the future, but there's no monthly cost for provision of GPS itself.
Click to expand...

Are you talking just pure GPS or "live turn by turn navigation"?

Nokia gives you the GPS and the maps for free for the n95 --- however if you want the live turn by turn navigation for the n95, you have to pay the monthly fee. The monthly fee applies to UK Nokia n95 as well.

http://www.n95mapping.co.uk/html/N95_mapping.aspx

This is a youtube video on how the Verizon Navigation (which is a monthly fee based turn by turn navigation service) works on a cell phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurqFgTIm3c
 
samab said:
Are you talking just pure GPS or "live turn by turn navigation"?

Nokia gives you the GPS and the maps for free for the n95 --- however if you want the live turn by turn navigation for the n95, you have to pay the monthly fee. The monthly fee applies to UK Nokia n95 as well.

http://www.n95mapping.co.uk/html/N95_mapping.aspx

This is a youtube video on how the Verizon Navigation works on a cell phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurqFgTIm3c
Click to expand...

Thanks, that video is interesting, and I hope Apple offers GPS and the maps for free like the n95. Let me ask you though, does the GPS dot on the map move as you move with the N95, or can you simple only have a one at a time "locate me" feature with what comes free?

As long as the dot moves, that's all most of us would want for free because Google Maps already highlights the route when you do driving directions, so most of us can tell when a turn would be coming up as long as the dot moves on the map as the phone moves.

The turn by turn directions are something that should be an extra fee.
 
I can't believe people are saying turn by turn directions SHOULD be a monthly fee :eek:

I never knew it costs money for this in a cell phone, i could go out and buy a TomTom for a one off cost and just update the maps if I wanted to.

You should NOT have to pay for turn by turn!!
 
hollerz said:
I can't believe people are saying turn by turn directions SHOULD be a monthly fee :eek:

I never knew it costs money for this in a cell phone, i could go out and buy a TomTom for a one off cost and just update the maps if I wanted to.

You should NOT have to pay for turn by turn!!
Click to expand...

Well I agree we shouldn't have to pay for anything, but if most cell phones have charges for their Nav's, i'd rather we get the basic features free, and have the things like turn by turn be the extra's we'd pay for, in which case many of us wouldn't upgrade.
 
Then go out and buy one :D
Every phone that has turn by turn navigation includes a monthly fee so I dont think the Iphone would be any different.
Hope so but I doubt it.


hollerz said:
I can't believe people are saying turn by turn directions SHOULD be a monthly fee :eek:

I never knew it costs money for this in a cell phone, i could go out and buy a TomTom for a one off cost and just update the maps if I wanted to.

You should NOT have to pay for turn by turn!!
Click to expand...
 
GPS would be kind of cool, but just can't get that excited about having it in an iphone. I only want gps when I drive and most cars have nav systems now and if not you can get a tomtom or garmin or whatever. It seems like feature creep to me. Maybe I need to get more imaginative on this one
 
I'm not an expert, but I think this GPS discussion requires some clarification. Cell tower GPS is just that. I have never used it, but I think it has street navigation (turn by turn). iPhone/Google Maps uses cell towers and, where available, WIFI locations to triangulate one's position. Neither are true GPS, which uses satellites and is free. There was talk that someone was making a GPS receiver to plug into iPhone. But I think what will happen, is that we'll end up using an external GPSr that sends its data to iPhone via BT -- just as we currently do with Treo 700P. Then there will be a choice of software to use. There is Palm software (GeoNiche) that provides all the uses of a Garmin. GPSPilot has Compass and Tracker. TomTom has a Palm version that has maps, street navigation and verbal directions. Hopefully, someone will develop all of these capabilities for iPhone. I don't think we will (or should want) real GPS imbedded into iPhone. It will eat through the battery and I'd rather be able to choose different GPSr's. They aren't all equal.
 
As others have said, IF the 3G iPhone has GPS built in, its certainly not going to be free.

As an example, the newly released Sony Ericsson Z750i on AT&T has a GPS built in. So what was the first thing AT&T did when they branded the phone? They disabled the GPS! Yes, the hardware is still inside the phone, but its disabled by software. You can actually debrand the phone and get the GPS functionality back.

In other words, AT&T doesn't want you to have free GPS access.
 
Couldn't someone just whip up a GPS app through the SDK and have revised maps to download in the future as well?
 
impact_blue said:
Couldn't someone just whip up a GPS app through the SDK and have revised maps to download in the future as well?
Click to expand...

Where are they going to get the maps?

TomTom is buying Tele Atlas for 4.6 billion dollars and Nokia is buying Navteq for 8 billion dollars.

You are paying monthly fees to get up-to-date maps and real time traffic reports.
 
An SDK won't help if they lock down the GPS to certain carrier approved apps.

However, I believe as I said above, that Google could spring for the cost of iPhone GPS. Why? Because they noticed that lots of search requests come from iPhones. This means they could sell local ad placements for more money. Which means, are you willing to take ads in return for free GPS? Hard choice. Or not.

And, although I also said that carriers usually have a say, up to now Apple had a contract that pretty much seemed to say ATT had no say in any iPhone matters. No say in apps, tune stores, warranty, pricing, sales locations, etc. (Pretty much all the reasons why Verizon said no.)
 
Obviously a GPS would need to use AT&T's data so they'd have a say in that. Its not like Itunes or the wifi store etc....
But again, they might not even include a GPS chip on the new Iphone.
Who knows....
 
I'm guessing Apple would try to get AT&T to put it in the month bill, for the same price. I question is they will, but Apple got AT&T to do it with data, so its possible.



Or make part of the higher plans, but then not every iPhone user would have it, like with the data(which you can get around, but up front, it seem everyone has to get a data plan)
 
OK, I am stunned here.

As another poster has already said, in the UK at least, I have a TomTom GO 510. I paid a one off fee, get step by step navigation, and free map updates every few months. How come you get charged for doing exactly the same thing on a phone, that you can do for free, and on a bigger screen, with a stand alone TomTom unit? Anyone would be crazy to pay a monthly fee for something you can get for free!!! :confused:

Please explain, I am totally lost!!!
 
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